Apparently Cincinnati and Virginia Tech are seriously considering using COA money as a disciplinary measure.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-violators


"Cincinnati coach Tommy Tuberville said he will consider withholding some cost of attendance money from players who fail to meet academic requirements or violate team rules or athletic department policies, including student code of conduct."

Stupid decision. Either kid gets it doesn't get it and for state schools there is going to have to be a due process procedure.

(08-27-2015 11:11 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Stupid decision. Either kid gets it doesn't get it and for state schools there is going to have to be a due process procedure.

There's no due process for yanking a kid's scholarship, is there?

That said, I don't think you can use it as discipline without due process.

(08-27-2015 11:29 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:11 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Stupid decision. Either kid gets it doesn't get it and for state schools there is going to have to be a due process procedure.

There's no due process for yanking a kid's scholarship, is there?

That said, I don't think you can use it as discipline without due process.

Not aware of a due process on the annual renewal because it is annual.

In-season can only be revoked when a player:
1.Becomes ineligible (getting expelled will do that but expulsion triggers due process);
2.Fraudulently misrepresents any information on a university document; or
3.Voluntarily withdraws from a team.

(08-27-2015 11:29 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:11 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Stupid decision. Either kid gets it doesn't get it and for state schools there is going to have to be a due process procedure.

There's no due process for yanking a kid's scholarship, is there?

That said, I don't think you can use it as discipline without due process.

Ah, but here's the rub: scholarships are starting to be guaranteed for 4-years.

I'm assuming they have escape clauses, like if the student commits a serious crime, gets kicked out of school, etc.


But withholding COA money would be no different than saying "well, we're going to withhold your books money this semester, because you violated a team rule". It doesn't make sense.

It's not a stipend and it's not a salary. It's guaranteed money, within the scholarship.

It's not happening at Tech. Babcock shot that nonsense down in about 10 minutes...

An analysis from an ESPN legal analyst.

http://t.co/1uZvHtAAzP

To summarize:

1. In order to avoid legal repercussions this all needs to be written out in the grant-in-aid agreements.
2. There must be an appeals process

Sure you can, but every player will have to sign a memorandum of understanding that this will happen to them if he or she have violations.

Jeremy Rauch ‏@FOX19Jeremy 14 minutes ago
Great clarification from Tuberville on ESPN report today: "Everybody is doing it. We're just the first to talk about it." #Bearcats @FOX19

(08-27-2015 02:07 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  It's not happening at Tech. Babcock shot that nonsense down in about 10 minutes...

It WAS happening at VT. The AD said it will now be discontinued, but here's a shot of a video screen outside the VT players' lounge listing all of the fines that players were subject to.



Article: http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/f...8702d.html

and here's a further list of more VT football fines:

Makes it seem like they're professional athletes

(08-27-2015 02:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  An analysis from an ESPN legal analyst.

http://t.co/1uZvHtAAzP

To summarize:

1. In order to avoid legal repercussions this all needs to be written out in the grant-in-aid agreements.
2. There must be an appeals process

Ok, I can buy that. If it's written explicitly into a contract that guarantees the athlete a four year scholarship, so long as he/she meets the following stipulations.

And yes, appeals are necessary.


Just wonder how it works logistically. Because if the full value of the scholarship (including COA) pays the student's bill for the semester and he/she gets a lump payment for the excess ... how are they going to "re-call" that money, once the violation has occurred?

(08-27-2015 02:19 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Jeremy Rauch ‏@FOX19Jeremy 14 minutes ago
Great clarification from Tuberville on ESPN report today: "Everybody is doing it. We're just the first to talk about it." #Bearcats @FOX19

Not everyone is doing it. Tubs is an Arkansas boy I know his momma taught him better than to use the everyone is doing it defense.

(08-27-2015 02:39 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:19 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Jeremy Rauch ‏@FOX19Jeremy 14 minutes ago
Great clarification from Tuberville on ESPN report today: "Everybody is doing it. We're just the first to talk about it." #Bearcats @FOX19

Not everyone is doing it. Tubs is an Arkansas boy I know his momma taught him better than to use the everyone is doing it defense.

I don't consider it a "defense" as much as him toning down the appearance that UC is on the cutting edge.

To a limited extent, it makes sense that a kid should have to behave in order to receive COA money. The fines in VT's program are way over the top (fines for missing breakfast, really?), but the principle itself doesn't bother me at all. In fact I think that my college scholarship required me to live in the dorms, so if I had gotten kicked out of the dorms (like one of my friends who's a klepto/pyromaniac) I would have lost my scholarship.

I understand that it's slippery slope though.

(08-27-2015 04:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:39 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:19 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Jeremy Rauch ‏@FOX19Jeremy 14 minutes ago
Great clarification from Tuberville on ESPN report today: "Everybody is doing it. We're just the first to talk about it." #Bearcats @FOX19

Not everyone is doing it. Tubs is an Arkansas boy I know his momma taught him better than to use the everyone is doing it defense.

I don't consider it a "defense" as much as him toning down the appearance that UC is on the cutting edge.

To a limited extent, it makes sense that a kid should have to behave in order to receive COA money. The fines in VT's program are way over the top (fines for missing breakfast, really?), but the principle itself doesn't bother me at all. In fact I think that my college scholarship required me to live in the dorms, so if I had gotten kicked out of the dorms (like one of my friends who's a klepto/pyromaniac) I would have lost my scholarship.

I understand that it's slippery slope though.

It would make sense if the players were paid salaries and thus violations were treated as monetary fines.

Scholarships aren't salaries, or stipends.

The cost of clothes, or going home, or whatever, does not go down because a player forgot to bring his visor for the photo op of the team boarding the team bus.

So it does treat the additional amount to cover the "Full Cost of Attendance" as a stipend rather than an actual cost of attendance.

(08-27-2015 05:27 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The cost of clothes, or going home, or whatever, does not go down because a player forgot to bring his visor for the photo op of the team boarding the team bus.

So it does treat the additional amount to cover the "Full Cost of Attendance" as a stipend rather than an actual cost of attendance.

It does.

Tuberville probably has the notion that COA is a stipend. Which is false.

(08-27-2015 04:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:39 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:19 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Jeremy Rauch ‏@FOX19Jeremy 14 minutes ago
Great clarification from Tuberville on ESPN report today: "Everybody is doing it. We're just the first to talk about it." #Bearcats @FOX19

Not everyone is doing it. Tubs is an Arkansas boy I know his momma taught him better than to use the everyone is doing it defense.

I don't consider it a "defense" as much as him toning down the appearance that UC is on the cutting edge.

To a limited extent, it makes sense that a kid should have to behave in order to receive COA money. The fines in VT's program are way over the top (fines for missing breakfast, really?), but the principle itself doesn't bother me at all. In fact I think that my college scholarship required me to live in the dorms, so if I had gotten kicked out of the dorms (like one of my friends who's a klepto/pyromaniac) I would have lost my scholarship.

I understand that it's slippery slope though.

Very slippery. Plus plays into the hands of the make them pros crowd

(08-27-2015 05:48 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:39 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:19 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Jeremy Rauch ‏@FOX19Jeremy 14 minutes ago
Great clarification from Tuberville on ESPN report today: "Everybody is doing it. We're just the first to talk about it." #Bearcats @FOX19

Not everyone is doing it. Tubs is an Arkansas boy I know his momma taught him better than to use the everyone is doing it defense.

I don't consider it a "defense" as much as him toning down the appearance that UC is on the cutting edge.

To a limited extent, it makes sense that a kid should have to behave in order to receive COA money. The fines in VT's program are way over the top (fines for missing breakfast, really?), but the principle itself doesn't bother me at all. In fact I think that my college scholarship required me to live in the dorms, so if I had gotten kicked out of the dorms (like one of my friends who's a klepto/pyromaniac) I would have lost my scholarship.

I understand that it's slippery slope though.

Very slippery. Plus plays into the hands of the make them pros crowd

Absolutely. The policy is a professional athlete policy if there's ever been one. Are these guys students, or not??