15,000 is the NCAA mandate for average home attendance. There were 9 teams in 2014 that failed to reach this requirement. Below is a simple 5 year analysis of those teams. Is this non-enforcement an Achilles heel for the NCAA?
The teams:
Akron
Ball St
E. Michigan
FIU
NMSU
Idaho
Kent St
N. Illinois
FAU

I dont expect NIU to be on that list again this year... as we speak ticket master and the box office are reporting there aren't too many more seats available for the home opener at huskie stadium against UNLV. The "Schedulpalooza" that our current AD is implementing seems to be working quite well.

Also looking at the 5 yr average, it's pretty obvious last year was an outlier *gasp* despite what EVERYONE on this board loves to think about NIU. Keep in mind until we expand our stadium (most likely around 2017-2018) 22k is a sell out for Huskie stadium... damn fire marshalls

If anything they should implement a system where if your average over a 3-5 year drops below 15k then you are brought before a committee for evaluation to remain NCAA accredited. That way one bad year (like NIU's case) doesn't impact a perennial G5 powerhouse in football.

(08-26-2015 10:27 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  I dont expect NIU to be on that list again this year... as we speak ticket master and the box office are reporting there aren't too many more seats available for the home opener at huskie stadium against UNLV. The "Schedulpalooza" that our current AD is implementing seems to be working quite well.

Also looking at the 5 yr average, it's pretty obvious last year was an outlier *gasp* despite what EVERYONE on this board loves to think about NIU. Keep in mind until we expand our stadium (most likely around 2017-2018) 22k is a sell out for Huskie stadium... damn fire marshalls

If anything they should implement a system where if your average over a 3-5 year drops below 15k then you are brought before a committee for evaluation to remain NCAA accredited. That way one bad year (like NIU's case) doesn't impact a perennial G5 powerhouse in football.

I thought with a 5 year average that could account for isolated conditions such as weather and the strength of schedule of home games. Other teams rather than NIU would seem to be more vunerable such as Ball St and Arkon. Eastern Michigan had a strong one year bump. Will they maintain it and increase attendance?

(08-26-2015 10:49 AM)NewTimes Wrote:  

(08-26-2015 10:27 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  I dont expect NIU to be on that list again this year... as we speak ticket master and the box office are reporting there aren't too many more seats available for the home opener at huskie stadium against UNLV. The "Schedulpalooza" that our current AD is implementing seems to be working quite well.

Also looking at the 5 yr average, it's pretty obvious last year was an outlier *gasp* despite what EVERYONE on this board loves to think about NIU. Keep in mind until we expand our stadium (most likely around 2017-2018) 22k is a sell out for Huskie stadium... damn fire marshalls

If anything they should implement a system where if your average over a 3-5 year drops below 15k then you are brought before a committee for evaluation to remain NCAA accredited. That way one bad year (like NIU's case) doesn't impact a perennial G5 powerhouse in football.

I thought with a 5 year average that could account for isolated conditions such as weather and the strength of schedule of home games. Other teams rather than NIU would seem to be more vunerable such as Ball St and Arkon. Eastern Michigan had a strong one year bump. Will they maintain it and increase attendance?

People here dont like averages, they like to parade the numbers they want around and ignore facts =p especially NIU's attendance

I just called NIU ticket sales, said I was looking to take a group of youth football kids to this game, 82 kids and their parents, also a few coaches.. About 250-260 tickets, asked if anyway we could get a block together.. She said yes, a few different locations on the east side and maybe even on the home side. sounds like a quite a few seats left

(08-26-2015 11:15 AM)TheNealT Wrote:  I just called NIU ticket sales, said I was looking to take a group of youth football kids to this game, 82 kids and their parents, also a few coaches.. About 250-260 tickets, asked if anyway we could get a block together.. She said yes, a few different locations on the east side and maybe even on the home side. sounds like a quite a few seats left

Your obsession is becoming quite concerning... also yeah but they might not be great seats. I think they have roughly 1-2k seats left in general admission. Not hard to fit a block yet. And that is accounting for students predetermined ticket sale estimates

I wouldn't use Ticketmaster as a guide to how many tickets are left. They often have seats left in reserve, that will be eventually released to the public as it gets closer to game day. Usually there are more left than it appears.

I thought the NCAA rule was a team had to average 15,000 at least once every two years. If I'm correct then the only teams on your list who failed that test were: E. Michigan, Idaho and FAU.

It is clear that the schools with the yo-yo attendance are cooking the books to get their attendence above 15k in alternate years. Forcing boosters or students to buy tickets that end up being given away and never used, but still count in the attendance numbers.

If the rules were changed to require 15k every year, schools would just cook the books every year to meet attendance requirements.

The real question is do schools have the resources to compete at FBS level and not just meet the scholly requirements but actually compete. One way to encourage that is to make all home games require a return game at the other teams home. No more buy games.

(08-26-2015 11:24 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I thought the NCAA rule was a team had to average 15,000 at least once every two years. If I'm correct then the only teams on your list who failed that test were: E. Michigan, Idaho and FAU.

I'm not sure what the rule is but I know Eastern Michigan has a deal with Pepsi to buy tickets, so they don't fall below whatever is required. Not every year either, so you'll see a spike in attendance for them.

Anyway, some teams report tickets sold and some report actual people at the game (or so I'm told) so it's hard to compare anyway.

(08-26-2015 11:28 AM)goofus Wrote:  It is clear that the schools with the yo-yo attendance are cooking the books to get their attendence above 15k in alternate years. Forcing boosters or students to buy tickets that end up being given away and never used, but still count in the attendance numbers.

If the rules were changed to require 15k every year, schools would just cook the books every year to meet attendance requirements.

The real question is do schools have the resources to compete at FBS level and not just meet the scholly requirements but actually compete. One way to encourage that is to make all home games require a return game at the other teams home. No more buy games.

Teams cook the books because the NCAA decided not to truly enforce this rule -- no audits, and no standard/verified way of counting and reporting. The NCAA effectively endorses shenanigans in attendance reporting.

No chance that buy games would be outlawed because it's a symbiotic relationship: The top programs can sell tickets and thus have the revenue to pay teams to visit, and the lower-revenue programs get a fat check that helps them meet their budget or at least have a smaller deficit. There are buy games in men's basketball and baseball as well, though not nearly as many in baseball.

(08-26-2015 11:24 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I thought the NCAA rule was a team had to average 15,000 at least once every two years. If I'm correct then the only teams on your list who failed that test were: E. Michigan, Idaho and FAU.

The 5 year list was mostly to display if any patterns exists with teams struggling to reach the minimum. I believe it is for a 5 year cycle. If it's otherwise, I'm banking that we'll be notified soon, as in immediately.

(08-26-2015 11:29 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-26-2015 11:24 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I thought the NCAA rule was a team had to average 15,000 at least once every two years. If I'm correct then the only teams on your list who failed that test were: E. Michigan, Idaho and FAU.

I'm not sure what the rule is but I know Eastern Michigan has a deal with Pepsi to buy tickets, so they don't fall below whatever is required. Not every year either, so you'll see a spike in attendance for them.

Anyway, some teams report tickets sold and some report actual people at the game (or so I'm told) so it's hard to compare anyway.

If there is no clear format to account for attendance, then there will be stuffed ballots, especially for those struggling. There needs to be expressed guidelines for all.

NIU fans like to blow off the low ticket sales, but maybe they shouldn't. Terrible last year, at around 13K.. 2013 had carryover from the Orange Bowl so spiked above 20K.. But in 2012 they averaged 15670 for the 6 games in Dekalb

15559/ game for the 6 games in Dekalb in 2011..

(08-26-2015 11:24 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  I thought the NCAA rule was a team had to average 15,000 at least once every two years. If I'm correct then the only teams on your list who failed that test were: E. Michigan, Idaho and FAU.

But they don't enforce it. And nobody cares that much. The conferences don't want to lose schools and the P5 get more FBS buy game opponents.

(08-26-2015 11:49 AM)TheNealT Wrote:  NIU fans like to blow off the low ticket sales, but maybe they shouldn't. Terrible last year, at around 13K.. 2013 had carryover from the Orange Bowl so spiked above 20K.. But in 2012 they averaged 15670 for the 6 games in Dekalb..

Shall we look at Ill States attendance numbers? Didn't think so...


The fact remains NIU does well enough filling up their 22k stadium MOST YEARS. Yes we had one abysmal year, but the 5 year average clearly shows that is NOT the norm. I understand your agenda against NIU fans for bashing you but you really gotta let it go, it all comes off just very depraved stalking the boards for any mention of NIU or Ill St and going on a tangent whenever you spot either

It is 15,000 average once every two years. From: https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files...20Form.pdf

Part III: Football Bowl Subdivision Football Attendance Requirements (Bylaw 20.9.9.3).
Once every two years, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games.
Institutions calculating attendance using the actual attendance method should complete and return Attachment A for every home contest.
Institutions calculating attendance using the paid attendance method should complete and return Attachment B for every home contest. DO NOT
COMPLETE BOTH ATTACHMENTS. Institutions that significantly exceed 15,000 in actual attendance are encouraged to use Attachment A.

(08-26-2015 12:01 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  It is 15,000 average once every two years. From: https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files...20Form.pdf

Part III: Football Bowl Subdivision Football Attendance Requirements (Bylaw 20.9.9.3).
Once every two years, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games.
Institutions calculating attendance using the actual attendance method should complete and return Attachment A for every home contest.
Institutions calculating attendance using the paid attendance method should complete and return Attachment B for every home contest. DO NOT
COMPLETE BOTH ATTACHMENTS. Institutions that significantly exceed 15,000 in actual attendance are encouraged to use Attachment A.

Then by all means, enforce it. Gonna bring about some rather big change for the MAC... maybe JMU can step up and fill in. Or NealT's dream of watching NIU regularly beat Ill St will come true

(08-26-2015 11:52 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(08-26-2015 11:49 AM)TheNealT Wrote:  NIU fans like to blow off the low ticket sales, but maybe they shouldn't. Terrible last year, at around 13K.. 2013 had carryover from the Orange Bowl so spiked above 20K.. But in 2012 they averaged 15670 for the 6 games in Dekalb..

Shall we look at Ill States attendance numbers? Didn't think so...


The fact remains NIU does well enough filling up their 22k stadium MOST YEARS. Yes we had one abysmal year, but the 5 year average clearly shows that is NOT the norm. I understand your agenda against NIU fans for bashing you but you really gotta let it go, it all comes off just very depraved stalking the boards for any mention of NIU or Ill St and going on a tangent whenever you spot either

ISU has nothing to do with this thread, though do above average for an FCS program.

No idea how you can claim NIU fills up their stadium when they clearly don't..most games at about 60% capacity looks about right at a quick glance..

(08-26-2015 12:04 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(08-26-2015 12:01 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  It is 15,000 average once every two years. From: https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files...20Form.pdf

Part III: Football Bowl Subdivision Football Attendance Requirements (Bylaw 20.9.9.3).
Once every two years, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games.
Institutions calculating attendance using the actual attendance method should complete and return Attachment A for every home contest.
Institutions calculating attendance using the paid attendance method should complete and return Attachment B for every home contest. DO NOT
COMPLETE BOTH ATTACHMENTS. Institutions that significantly exceed 15,000 in actual attendance are encouraged to use Attachment A.

Then by all means, enforce it. Gonna bring about some rather big change for the MAC... maybe JMU can step up and fill in. Or NealT's dream of watching NIU regularly beat Ill St will come true

This weakens substantially the ability of the NCAA to defend itself in event a FCS team seeking an FBS invite challenges the NCAA and exceed those attendance figures. It greatly weakens the invite only membership. You must enforce the rules to create a level playing field.