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the newest version of US foreign policy
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #1
the newest version of US foreign policy
so we negotiate whatever this Iran thingy is....

then we take the position of "but"....

then we get this...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world.../32124499/

Quote:WASHINGTON — U.S. airstrikes aimed at Iran's nuclear facilities would likely set back the regime's quest for a weapon by one or two years and require waves of attacks spearheaded by the ultra-heavy conventional bomb known as the Massive Ordnance Penetrator, according to military officials and experts.

.....and you guys think I'm nutzo.....

somebody needs to explain this strategy to me......I ain' gettin' it.....
08-23-2015 04:02 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
Im certainly no military expert..but..Id submit that the elimination of Iran's conventional energy infrastructure would take care of stopping their nuke program in its tracks. Take out all the power plants and transmission infrastructure and then... Take out all their oil industry. Leave them in the fcking dark. I find it hard to believe there would be much they could do about it either. It would of course involve a terrible amount of hardship on the Iranian people.
08-23-2015 07:26 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 07:26 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Im certainly no military expert..but..Id submit that the elimination of Iran's conventional energy infrastructure would take care of stopping their nuke program in its tracks. Take out all the power plants and transmission infrastructure and then... Take out all their oil industry. Leave them in the fcking dark. I find it hard to believe there would be much they could do about it either. It would of course involve a terrible amount of hardship on the Iranian people.

ya nailed it....therein lies the crux....

we already know what to do....

but we cannot for some strange reason....

it's mind-numbing.....
08-23-2015 07:57 PM
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Post: #4
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 07:26 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Im certainly no military expert..but..Id submit that the elimination of Iran's conventional energy infrastructure would take care of stopping their nuke program in its tracks. Take out all the power plants and transmission infrastructure and then... Take out all their oil industry. Leave them in the fcking dark. I find it hard to believe there would be much they could do about it either. It would of course involve a terrible amount of hardship on the Iranian people.

They would do more of what they are doing now-terrorism-and would have more potential suicide bombers.
08-23-2015 08:06 PM
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Post: #5
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 04:02 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  so we negotiate whatever this Iran thingy is....

then we take the position of "but"....

then we get this...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world.../32124499/

Quote:WASHINGTON — U.S. airstrikes aimed at Iran's nuclear facilities would likely set back the regime's quest for a weapon by one or two years and require waves of attacks spearheaded by the ultra-heavy conventional bomb known as the Massive Ordnance Penetrator, according to military officials and experts.

.....and you guys think I'm nutzo.....

somebody needs to explain this strategy to me......I ain' gettin' it.....

If they didn't agree to reasonable controls and monitoring, and appear to be developing a bomb, then you attack. And you go after their centrifuges. That's the irreplaceable equipment. You don't hit every site, only the ones that allow them to produce more material. And if they have scientists in barracks on site, you take out those barracks.

Key scientists could set them back for a generation.
08-23-2015 08:10 PM
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Post: #6
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
But you only do that if you need to. And then you prepare for the inevitable terrorist attacks. But you don't have as big an issue as if you make all of Iran suffer.
08-23-2015 08:11 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #7
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  But you only do that if you need to. And then you prepare for the inevitable terrorist attacks. But you don't have as big an issue as if you make all of Iran suffer.

Or...maybe by doing this a revolution occurs in Iran with the westernized and oppressed population taking back control from the Ayatollahs.

I don't advocate such a policy BTW.
08-23-2015 08:49 PM
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Post: #8
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 08:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(08-23-2015 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  But you only do that if you need to. And then you prepare for the inevitable terrorist attacks. But you don't have as big an issue as if you make all of Iran suffer.

Or...maybe by doing this a revolution occurs in Iran with the westernized and oppressed population taking back control from the Ayatollahs.

I don't advocate such a policy BTW.

I don't think there are enough of them. And the Ayatollahs have the military. Sadaam and al-Assad hung on indefinitely.
08-23-2015 08:55 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #9
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 08:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-23-2015 08:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(08-23-2015 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  But you only do that if you need to. And then you prepare for the inevitable terrorist attacks. But you don't have as big an issue as if you make all of Iran suffer.

Or...maybe by doing this a revolution occurs in Iran with the westernized and oppressed population taking back control from the Ayatollahs.

I don't advocate such a policy BTW.

I don't think there are enough of them. And the Ayatollahs have the military. Sadaam and al-Assad hung on indefinitely.

When the lights go out and things quickly got bad? It would be interesting to see how it would affect peoples attitudes toward their leadership....including those in the military.
08-23-2015 09:00 PM
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Ole Blue Offline
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Post: #10
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 07:57 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(08-23-2015 07:26 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Im certainly no military expert..but..Id submit that the elimination of Iran's conventional energy infrastructure would take care of stopping their nuke program in its tracks. Take out all the power plants and transmission infrastructure and then... Take out all their oil industry. Leave them in the fcking dark. I find it hard to believe there would be much they could do about it either. It would of course involve a terrible amount of hardship on the Iranian people.

ya nailed it....therein lies the crux....

we already know what to do....

but we cannot for some strange reason....

it's mind-numbing.....

Speaking as a student of foreign affairs and the Middle East... Unlikely because of the terrible hardship on Iranians. We do not want another Iraq where the US screwed everything up, went in over false intelligence reports (or, in case of Iran, just plain lies about their nuke program), and created 1,000 new al-Qaeda-type groups. If so, then go ahead, attack Iran. But that is just about the worst possible thing you can do.
08-23-2015 09:03 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #11
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 09:03 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  
(08-23-2015 07:57 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(08-23-2015 07:26 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Im certainly no military expert..but..Id submit that the elimination of Iran's conventional energy infrastructure would take care of stopping their nuke program in its tracks. Take out all the power plants and transmission infrastructure and then... Take out all their oil industry. Leave them in the fcking dark. I find it hard to believe there would be much they could do about it either. It would of course involve a terrible amount of hardship on the Iranian people.

ya nailed it....therein lies the crux....

we already know what to do....

but we cannot for some strange reason....

it's mind-numbing.....

Speaking as a student of foreign affairs and the Middle East... Unlikely because of the terrible hardship on Iranians. We do not want another Iraq where the US screwed everything up, went in over false intelligence reports (or, in case of Iran, just plain lies about their nuke program), and created 1,000 new al-Qaeda-type groups. If so, then go ahead, attack Iran. But that is just about the worst possible thing you can do.

I think we all pretty much know the Iranians are going to cheat. It is just a matter of how bad and how much. What are we going to do? We better have a plan. We are going to need one.
08-23-2015 09:30 PM
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Post: #12
the newest version of US foreign policy
Hey the current POTUS is a bigger fan of those Persian Pricks than he is of our greatest ally in the same region ( Israel)!
08-23-2015 10:25 PM
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Ole Blue Offline
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RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 09:30 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think we all pretty much know the Iranians are going to cheat. It is just a matter of how bad and how much. What are we going to do? We better have a plan. We are going to need one.

That is one of the biggest arguments many conservatives use against the deal. However, the fact of the matter is it will be a lot easier to have Iran get a nuclear weapon if there is no oversight at all and they simply say "No more anything" to inspectors. With inspectors hovering around and many more regulations in place to extremely carefully manage the uranium resources of the country, the chance of them cheating is actually lower than the chance that if the deal fails that they will just try something on their own in spite of the US and Israel. If no deal, Russia would probably try to sneak in some type of shipment to Iran to make it easier for them, and they've already started sending missile parts to Iran. If the deal fails, Iran has a much easier road to getting a bomb, and the US will look horrible on the global scale if we're the ones who say "No deal!" then attack Iran because we didn't agree to the deal and they start sneaking around. Blame would be placed squarely on the US's shoulders -- if we had signed the deal, they wouldn't have started doing that (or if they did, it would be easy to catch them and punish them) and now we are the reason there is war or even more instability in the region. That would be a major hit to our image world-wide, especially in Muslim countries (probably excluding Saudi Arabia and Azerbaijan because of their dislike of Iran).
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2015 11:44 PM by Ole Blue.)
08-23-2015 11:38 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
The biggest lesson from Iraq and Afghanistan is No more Nation building. If You Bomb it, leave it in the dust. They will eventually come around.
08-24-2015 05:16 AM
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miko33 Offline
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RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-24-2015 05:16 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  The biggest lesson from Iraq and Afghanistan is No more Nation building. If You Bomb it, leave it in the dust. They will eventually come around.

Unless you are prepared to exterminate the entire population of the area, you do not want to do that. What would result is a power vacuum that would entice the next warlord to set up shop and take over. Everyone thought Saddam was the epitome of evil that had to be removed at all costs. In hindsight, that was a mistake.
08-24-2015 05:33 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-23-2015 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  But you only do that if you need to. And then you prepare for the inevitable terrorist attacks. But you don't have as big an issue as if you make all of Iran suffer.

there's that disclaimer that I can't wrap my arms around....

everything else is spot-on

you attack and destroy as necessary for the good of the whole....this isn't about isis...it's about what isis could obtain....

we would assassinate our own president that even implied going on a nuke offensive.....they won't

this is where I draw the line of staying out or all-in.....this isn't some fabrication about wmds from the bush nuculer moron.....
08-24-2015 10:03 AM
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Ole Blue Offline
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Post: #17
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
Our nuclear problem is more robust, I would argue, than Iran's. If we were to use a nuclear warhead on an "enemy" that would have beyond catastrophic consequences. Chances are our "enemy" would be an ally of Russia, causing them to retaliate against us and start an all-out nuclear war. And needless to say that would be apocalyptic.
08-24-2015 02:30 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
Thank you Lord that none of those commenting in this thread...sans Miko and Blue...is anywhere near the decision making process of our nation. 05-duck
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2015 02:54 PM by Redwingtom.)
08-24-2015 02:53 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-24-2015 05:33 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-24-2015 05:16 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  The biggest lesson from Iraq and Afghanistan is No more Nation building. If You Bomb it, leave it in the dust. They will eventually come around.

Unless you are prepared to exterminate the entire population of the area, you do not want to do that. What would result is a power vacuum that would entice the next warlord to set up shop and take over. Everyone thought Saddam was the epitome of evil that had to be removed at all costs. In hindsight, that was a mistake.

While true, you can't say that there haven't been successes with nation building. Maybe the Middle East was just the wrong place to implement such a plan.

Regardless, I think the Senate should just ratify the deal. Iran is going to have nuclear weapons inside of 10 years regardless of this agreement, but signing it will also Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States some time to get their affairs in order.
08-24-2015 02:58 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: the newest version of US foreign policy
(08-24-2015 05:33 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-24-2015 05:16 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  The biggest lesson from Iraq and Afghanistan is No more Nation building. If You Bomb it, leave it in the dust. They will eventually come around.

Unless you are prepared to exterminate the entire population of the area, you do not want to do that. What would result is a power vacuum that would entice the next warlord to set up shop and take over. Everyone thought Saddam was the epitome of evil that had to be removed at all costs. In hindsight, that was a mistake.

Everyone? Hardly.
08-24-2015 04:19 PM
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