I think you are starting to see more of a commitment to basketball by the SEC as a whole than there has been since the 80s. Schools are paying big bucks and hiring name coaches and bringing in top talent like never before.

Kentucky and Florida are proven players. LSU, Mizzou, Auburn Arkansas and Tennessee have had success in the past and are committing to build their programs back into their old form.

A&M has a ton of potential but unfortunately our big cigars just don't care enough about basketball enough to realize it. We're saddled with a terrible coach who is only still here because our big cigars feel sorry for him and one amazingly lucky recruiting class.

in the 80's it was at least 48 teams thru the entire decade- going to 64 in '85.

Everything also is all relative. Yeah maybe 78 and 75 Kentucky could beat many Kentucky teams in the last 10 years- but that's not the competition that either side faced. Relatively speaking Kentucky 2006-15 is light years ahead of Kentucky 1980-89.

the thing with the SEC brings up the age old question....

is it better to be in the 80's- with no where near as many top teams- but a lot more parity
or 06-15 period- with 2 dominating teams- but not as much parity

It's something that a lot of folks go back and forth on.

(08-16-2015 01:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Well for those that think things haven't changed....

Auburn today picked up a commitment from Mustapha Heron- a top 100 prospect. Beat out several big time schools.

Basketball is changing rapidly. gone are the days where SEC was a total big 2 and everyone else.

You're right.

Right now, it's Kentucky and the 13 other ones.

---

Does the ACC get a thread if Boston College lures a top-100 football recruit away from Penn State or Michigan?

(08-17-2015 01:41 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 01:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Well for those that think things haven't changed....

Auburn today picked up a commitment from Mustapha Heron- a top 100 prospect. Beat out several big time schools.

Basketball is changing rapidly. gone are the days where SEC was a total big 2 and everyone else.

You're right.

Right now, it's Kentucky and the 13 other ones.

---

Does the ACC get a thread if Boston College lures a top-100 football recruit away from Penn State or Michigan?

That's the truest thing on this thread

(08-16-2015 07:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With or without Kentucky, The S-Easy, as Louisville fans call the wildcats league, is a wasteland of college basketball. When Florida is defending National Champion and can't sell out its allotment of conference tournament tickets you know the quality of the league.

There was a time when The SEC played good basketball but the days of Don Devoe, Hugh Durham, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, CM Newton and Dale Brown are long gone. What the league lacked in talented players it made up for with colorful coaches.

Expansion has been less than kind to the SEC. South Carolina was awful in The Metro. A&M and Mizzu have both had recent success but neither has sustained it since joining the conference. Arkansas had a short run under Richardson, won a championship and then promptly disappeared when he left.

I have often said The SEC deserves to be relegated to a play in game every season. Until they prove they have greater depth than The MVC, WCC, or OVC The SEC doesn't deserve multiple bids.


And for The ACC haters here. The ACC is closer to The SEC in football than The SEC is to The ACC in basketball.
CJ

You might want to tell Terrance Ferguson that the SEC isn't a good basketball league...

BTW, the ACC close to the SEC in football? When your league comes close to winning 7 straight titles and has more than one year's worth of success in the annual rivalry games then come talk to me.

(08-18-2015 10:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 07:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With or without Kentucky, The S-Easy, as Louisville fans call the wildcats league, is a wasteland of college basketball. When Florida is defending National Champion and can't sell out its allotment of conference tournament tickets you know the quality of the league.

There was a time when The SEC played good basketball but the days of Don Devoe, Hugh Durham, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, CM Newton and Dale Brown are long gone. What the league lacked in talented players it made up for with colorful coaches.

Expansion has been less than kind to the SEC. South Carolina was awful in The Metro. A&M and Mizzu have both had recent success but neither has sustained it since joining the conference. Arkansas had a short run under Richardson, won a championship and then promptly disappeared when he left.

I have often said The SEC deserves to be relegated to a play in game every season. Until they prove they have greater depth than The MVC, WCC, or OVC The SEC doesn't deserve multiple bids.


And for The ACC haters here. The ACC is closer to The SEC in football than The SEC is to The ACC in basketball.
CJ

You might want to tell Terrance Ferguson that the SEC isn't a good basketball league...

BTW, the ACC close to the SEC in football? When your league comes close to winning 7 straight titles and has more than one year's worth of success in the annual rivalry games then come talk to me.

I think the point of his statement was that the football gap between the two conferences is smaller than the basketball gap. The ACC has made some strides in football the past few years, particularly with the top of the league. The SEC is still unquestionably a much deeper league in football.

I see a much larger gap in basketball, as evidenced by the strong NCAA tournament showing by the ACC. Case in point - Arkansas and LSU were NOT good teams last year. Their records were over inflated by a morbidly weak conference schedule. Both lost to Clemson, who lost to Gardner-Webb and Winthrop at home. Neither LSU nor Arkansas would have come close to playing 0.500 in the ACC last year. I'm not sure why this is even a discussion.

(08-18-2015 12:18 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(08-18-2015 10:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 07:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With or without Kentucky, The S-Easy, as Louisville fans call the wildcats league, is a wasteland of college basketball. When Florida is defending National Champion and can't sell out its allotment of conference tournament tickets you know the quality of the league.

There was a time when The SEC played good basketball but the days of Don Devoe, Hugh Durham, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, CM Newton and Dale Brown are long gone. What the league lacked in talented players it made up for with colorful coaches.

Expansion has been less than kind to the SEC. South Carolina was awful in The Metro. A&M and Mizzu have both had recent success but neither has sustained it since joining the conference. Arkansas had a short run under Richardson, won a championship and then promptly disappeared when he left.

I have often said The SEC deserves to be relegated to a play in game every season. Until they prove they have greater depth than The MVC, WCC, or OVC The SEC doesn't deserve multiple bids.


And for The ACC haters here. The ACC is closer to The SEC in football than The SEC is to The ACC in basketball.
CJ

You might want to tell Terrance Ferguson that the SEC isn't a good basketball league...

BTW, the ACC close to the SEC in football? When your league comes close to winning 7 straight titles and has more than one year's worth of success in the annual rivalry games then come talk to me.

I think the point of his statement was that the football gap between the two conferences is smaller than the basketball gap. The ACC has made some strides in football the past few years, particularly with the top of the league. The SEC is still unquestionably a much deeper league in football.

I see a much larger gap in basketball, as evidenced by the strong NCAA tournament showing by the ACC. Case in point - Arkansas and LSU were NOT good teams last year. Their records were over inflated by a morbidly weak conference schedule. Both lost to Clemson, who lost to Gardner-Webb and Winthrop at home. Neither LSU nor Arkansas would have come close to playing 0.500 in the ACC last year. I'm not sure why this is even a discussion.

Championships is why it is a discussion. Go back 2 decades and the results are essentially the same. There is no question that the ACC is deeper in basketball schools. But, what have you got to show for it? Not much more if anything in the way of championships than the SEC has had in the past 20 years. If you stretch it to 22 years I think we've both had three different schools to win it all. So for all the woofing there ain't much to howl about.

I think most SEC fans see the basketball tournament as a kind of non-football welfare check for basketball schools. There are precious few basketball first athletic departments in the top 20 revenue producers.

The funny thing I find out of the ordinary is living back in Kentucky since 1968, is there has always been a huge love for Basketball at all levels of competition at any school in the state. It's a religion here. Louisville has adopted football in a very positive way where fan interest remains strong even when Basketball season starts and maybe the football record isn't the greatest. U of Kentucky on the other hand Fills their 65,000 Football seat Stadium even when the team isn't that good but the instant Basketball starts practice everything changes. It's Basketball This, Basketball that , High school basketball recruiting even outshines Football at that point. 25,000 fans for Midnight Madness practice opener. Kentucky has the money and facilities to be a top notch Football school but a strong Love of Basketball pulls the Wool over the Fans eyes.

(08-18-2015 12:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2015 12:18 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(08-18-2015 10:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 07:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With or without Kentucky, The S-Easy, as Louisville fans call the wildcats league, is a wasteland of college basketball. When Florida is defending National Champion and can't sell out its allotment of conference tournament tickets you know the quality of the league.

There was a time when The SEC played good basketball but the days of Don Devoe, Hugh Durham, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, CM Newton and Dale Brown are long gone. What the league lacked in talented players it made up for with colorful coaches.

Expansion has been less than kind to the SEC. South Carolina was awful in The Metro. A&M and Mizzu have both had recent success but neither has sustained it since joining the conference. Arkansas had a short run under Richardson, won a championship and then promptly disappeared when he left.

I have often said The SEC deserves to be relegated to a play in game every season. Until they prove they have greater depth than The MVC, WCC, or OVC The SEC doesn't deserve multiple bids.


And for The ACC haters here. The ACC is closer to The SEC in football than The SEC is to The ACC in basketball.
CJ

You might want to tell Terrance Ferguson that the SEC isn't a good basketball league...

BTW, the ACC close to the SEC in football? When your league comes close to winning 7 straight titles and has more than one year's worth of success in the annual rivalry games then come talk to me.

I think the point of his statement was that the football gap between the two conferences is smaller than the basketball gap. The ACC has made some strides in football the past few years, particularly with the top of the league. The SEC is still unquestionably a much deeper league in football.

I see a much larger gap in basketball, as evidenced by the strong NCAA tournament showing by the ACC. Case in point - Arkansas and LSU were NOT good teams last year. Their records were over inflated by a morbidly weak conference schedule. Both lost to Clemson, who lost to Gardner-Webb and Winthrop at home. Neither LSU nor Arkansas would have come close to playing 0.500 in the ACC last year. I'm not sure why this is even a discussion.

Championships is why it is a discussion. Go back 2 decades and the results are essentially the same. There is no question that the ACC is deeper in basketball schools. But, what have you got to show for it? Not much more if anything in the way of championships than the SEC has had in the past 20 years. If you stretch it to 22 years I think we've both had three different schools to win it all. So for all the woofing there ain't much to howl about.

I think most SEC fans see the basketball tournament as a kind of non-football welfare check for basketball schools. There are precious few basketball first athletic departments in the top 20 revenue producers.

If you want to go that far back, you have somewhat of an argument. But Im pretty sure that the CJ was talking about the two leagues as they are currently configured. Its always nice to talk about championships, but which league has the most championships is not an indicator as to which league has the most depth. Its a silly argument. When Miami was winning national championships as members of the BE, no one in their right mind would try to argue that the BE was a deeper fb league than the SEC. Same thing can be said for FSU and the ACC back in 2014.

But regarding basketball, its equally silly to try and argue that the SEC is as deep as the ACC, or that the two leagues are close. The ACC has 4 of the top 10 basketball schools of all time. You dont just consider championships when determining depth of a league. You consider how many teams make the tourney, how many teams make the Final Four, which league brings in the most tourney credits...
FB may come first at most SEC schools, but some of them care a great deal about basketball, as evidenced by their attendance figures.

Mustapha

What are the attendance figures for the top 14 men's basketball schools in the SEC vs the ACC?
Does SEC basketball ticket purchases have any bearing on football seating?

(08-18-2015 12:18 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(08-18-2015 10:43 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 07:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  With or without Kentucky, The S-Easy, as Louisville fans call the wildcats league, is a wasteland of college basketball. When Florida is defending National Champion and can't sell out its allotment of conference tournament tickets you know the quality of the league.

There was a time when The SEC played good basketball but the days of Don Devoe, Hugh Durham, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, CM Newton and Dale Brown are long gone. What the league lacked in talented players it made up for with colorful coaches.

Expansion has been less than kind to the SEC. South Carolina was awful in The Metro. A&M and Mizzu have both had recent success but neither has sustained it since joining the conference. Arkansas had a short run under Richardson, won a championship and then promptly disappeared when he left.

I have often said The SEC deserves to be relegated to a play in game every season. Until they prove they have greater depth than The MVC, WCC, or OVC The SEC doesn't deserve multiple bids.


And for The ACC haters here. The ACC is closer to The SEC in football than The SEC is to The ACC in basketball.
CJ

You might want to tell Terrance Ferguson that the SEC isn't a good basketball league...

BTW, the ACC close to the SEC in football? When your league comes close to winning 7 straight titles and has more than one year's worth of success in the annual rivalry games then come talk to me.

I think the point of his statement was that the football gap between the two conferences is smaller than the basketball gap. The ACC has made some strides in football the past few years, particularly with the top of the league. The SEC is still unquestionably a much deeper league in football.

I see a much larger gap in basketball, as evidenced by the strong NCAA tournament showing by the ACC. Case in point - Arkansas and LSU were NOT good teams last year. Their records were over inflated by a morbidly weak conference schedule. Both lost to Clemson, who lost to Gardner-Webb and Winthrop at home. Neither LSU nor Arkansas would have come close to playing 0.500 in the ACC last year. I'm not sure why this is even a discussion.

It's really not a discussion for me either, but I will troll an ACC fan in a second over football. There aren't very many football first schools in the ACC and that hurts their quality. There are very few schools in the SEC that make basketball a priority and that hurts their quality. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

The SEC isn't that bad a of bball league though. The league generally performs decently in the postseason although the last 2 or 3 years have been a little weak.

(08-18-2015 08:58 PM)Dasville Wrote:  What are the attendance figures for the top 14 men's basketball schools in the SEC vs the ACC?
Does SEC basketball ticket purchases have any bearing on football seating?

I don't know anyone who would argue that the SEC compares in attendance to the ACC. In ACC territory, it wouldn't be too difficult to find people who consider themselves to be basketball fans more than football fans in a random group. In SEC territory, that would be highly unusual. I can't imagine any SEC school linking ticket purchases between the two sports unless they were trying to ramp up basketball support by giving preference for football seating to basketball season ticket holders. Wouldn't work though as I would imagine a sizable portion of SEC football fans only care marginally about their school's basketball program. Almost any SEC fan would gladly trade a winless basketball season for an undefeated football season.

(08-17-2015 10:56 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I think you are starting to see more of a commitment to basketball by the SEC as a whole than there has been since the 80s. Schools are paying big bucks and hiring name coaches and bringing in top talent like never before.

Kentucky and Florida are proven players. LSU, Mizzou, Auburn Arkansas and Tennessee have had success in the past and are committing to build their programs back into their old form.

A&M has a ton of potential but unfortunately our big cigars just don't care enough about basketball enough to realize it. We're saddled with a terrible coach who is only still here because our big cigars feel sorry for him and one amazingly lucky recruiting class.

Since every post in this thread has left them out, I want to plug that Ole Miss has done relatively well lately.

Quick quiz. Which team has the most NCAA tournament wins over the last three years?

Ole Miss
Indiana
Villanova
Butler
Memphis
Cincinnati
UMass
Boston College
St. Johns

OK, it's a bit of a trick question. Of these teams who are generally regarded as "basketball schools," (plus Ole Miss), none has more than the Rebels' two wins. It isn't an indication of anything really -- all of those schools have better basketball histories than Ole Miss. But having that history doesn't mean much in a given tournament and certainly may not mean anything in the future.

Top programs stay good because they get the top recruits. In the same way that high school football players are drawn to the SEC because they want to play on the biggest stage, basketball players are drawn to the ACC and other good basketball programs around the country. No big shock.

(08-18-2015 08:58 PM)Dasville Wrote:  What are the attendance figures for the top 14 men's basketball schools in the SEC vs the ACC?
Does SEC basketball ticket purchases have any bearing on football seating?

It depends upon the athletic department. Once you are a season ticket holder then your points go up at some schools when you purchase season tickets for other sports.

(08-18-2015 08:58 PM)Dasville Wrote:  What are the attendance figures for the top 14 men's basketball schools in the SEC vs the ACC?
Does SEC basketball ticket purchases have any bearing on football seating?

The SEC was about 360,000 behind the ACC in attendance. The SEC was third overall in basketball attendance. The Big 10 was first, the ACC second and the SEC third.