Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
SEC Expansion Opinion Article
Author Message
MplsBison Offline
Banned

Posts: 16,648
Joined: Dec 2014
I Root For: NDSU/Minnesota
Location:
Post: #41
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
Purdue and Texas A&M are traditional flagships. The entire UC system is the "flagship" in CA. Florida St and Arizona St are "non-traditional" flagships.
08-12-2015 03:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,419
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 1226
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #42
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-12-2015 02:16 PM)chidave Wrote:  If the GoR is unbreakable, then that takes all the ACC schools out of the running. NC State would be the SEC's preferred choice (culturally UNC-Chapel Hill is not a fit) but if they are off the table, then the article does make some sense.

Why do you think UNC doesn't fit the SEC culturally? I'm not saying that UNC would go to the SEC if they had an option (either the Big Ten or a stable ACC). I don't think they would. And while there may not be a cultural affinity with the SEC West schools, there surely is with schools like Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt and South Carolina. If they could go to the SEC with partners like Duke, UVa and Georgia Tech, affinity would not be a barrier.
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2015 03:38 PM by ken d.)
08-12-2015 03:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
billybobby777 Offline
The REAL BillyBobby
*

Posts: 11,898
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 502
I Root For: ECU, Army
Location: Houston dont sleepon
Post: #43
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-11-2015 07:51 PM)RIFRAF Wrote:  TIME FOR THE PRESTIGIOUS SEC BRAND TO FILL IN A GEOGRAPHIC GAP
August 11, 2015, Posted in News, 3 comments
By Joe Vitale:

If the NCAA Power Five college conference landscape is in for another round of alignment, how can the Southeastern Conference be proactive while protecting and enhancing its geographic footprint? The Ottoman Empire of the NCAA, the Big 12 Conference, has been rumored to be imploding for several years which may create opportunities for other conferences. Big 12 Conference members are still not pleased with the Longhorn Network (and neither is ESPN) and their inability to secure a lucrative conference network package. Baylor President Ken Starr has threatened litigation if Oklahoma bolts for greener pastures and the Oklahoma legislature would most likely insist Oklahoma State tag along. The inclusion of both schools may be too large of a price to pay by the SEC or PAC-12 for the blue-blooded Sooners.

After the TCU/Baylor co-champion fiasco last football season, which allowed Ohio State to leapfrog into the College Football Playoff, Oklahoma President David Boren has insisted the Big 12 expand to twelve teams. But who is going to join? Houston, SMU and Colorado State are all regional candidates and BYU and Boise State would add nationally-renowned football programs to the mix. However, flying 2,200 miles from Morgantown, West Virginia to Boise, Idaho every couple of years for a $7 million, revenue-generating football game is one thing, but that 42-hour bus ride for the women’s softball team will definitely have the Title IX legal hounds in Washington paying a courtesy visit.

The Big 10 has made recent forays into major metropolitan areas by collecting mediocre athletic programs (Rutgers and Maryland) for one reason….the Big Ten Network and the nation’s numbers one, four and nine television markets (New York, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., respectively) that each program will theoretically bring along. Lincoln, Nebraska to New Brunswick, New Jersey is 1,300 miles and six lonely states away. The only thing Nebraska has in common with Rutgers is that each has a red color scheme and both are public universities in the United States.

The Atlantic Coast Conference stretches 1,500 miles from sub-tropical Miami, through Tobacco Road and to nearly the Canadian border and Lake Ontario. For the fun of it, the ACC diverts to the Midwest and South Bend, Indiana, but only for basketball season and non-revenue sports. The conference sold its soul for the Northeast television markets and the improbable dream of Notre Dame one day becoming a full member.

As these conferences chase the network dollars that are generated by football, they have lost sight as to why they have become so popular. It all comes down to rivalries and the intense brand-loyalty of the consumer, the college football-paying and watching public. Diluting the brand over three time zones and several non-contiguous states simply isn’t a successful formula. As a University of Georgia and SEC fan, I have a vested interest in what is happening with Vanderbilt or Florida or Auburn. I want to visit William-Brice Stadium, Bryant-Denny Stadium and Neyland Stadium. It is doubtful I will ever have such an interest in Kansas if the SEC looked to expand to the Plains. I, and millions of other fans, share that regional passion for our respective universities. That passion and familiarity has made the SEC the preeminent college conference in the country.

SEC

Now for the potential16th member, the SEC needs to look towards the Atlantic, fill the glaring eastern gap and project its image northward. North Carolina is the ninth most populous state in the country, is a financial and biotechnology center, borders three current SEC states and between Charlotte and Raleigh, two of the fastest growing metropolitan areas, lays claim to the 24th and 27th largest television markets, respectively. Herein lies the opportunity for the SEC to retain its institution geographical proximity, strengthen the brand in its historical base and further enhance the brand and its member universities…“The Southern Living Magazine Business Model”. Many have long predicted that Oklahoma would be the next addition to the SEC and indeed, Oklahoma has the tradition, broad-based support, facilities, geographic desirability and in Oklahoma City and Tulsa, the nation’s 45th and 61st largest television markets. In addition, Oklahoma creates another natural rival with nearby SEC schools Texas A&M, Missouri, Arkansas and LSU. We will let politically-connected David Boren fight it out with the Oklahoma legislature and resolve the Oklahoma State issue, because even with all of T. Boone Pickens’ petroleum dollars, the Cowboys just don’t bring value to the conference. Bob Stoops will quickly learn why the SEC is so good.

In addition to being geographically contiguous to the SEC, the state is a major recruiting ground for Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia, among others. The state is a hotbed for college athletics and culturally, North Carolina is a match for the athletics-crazed SEC.

Currently there are seven Football Bowl Series-playing universities in the state. Naturally, the University of North Carolina would be everyone’s favorite, but the SEC has a policy of not raiding competing conferences and it is doubtful that North Carolina, a founding ACC member, will be calling SEC offices and inquiring about initiation fees. Duke, Wake Forest and North Carolina State are much the same situation. Former Football Championship Series powerhouse Appalachian State is in its second year in the FBS and can not match the SEC’s facilities or regional reach. That leaves American Athletic member East Carolina University and Conference USA’s UNC-Charlotte.

With the intrinsic brand value the SEC has created, it has long been thought only the elites will be considered for admission. However, reaching into the heart of ACC territory and securing two leading television markets will take a visionary statement.

East Carolina, located in Greenville, a public institution founded in 1907, culturally fits the SEC mold. 22,000 undergraduates and 4,700 graduate students (including the Brody School of Medicine), an alumni base of 155,000, a $145 million endowment and a rabid fan base, all match favorably with SEC schools. The Pirates have been a bit of a step child to its ACC brethren but have competed admirably on the courts and athletic fields. 50,000-seat Dowdy-Ficklen Stadium is undergoing a $40 million renovation, which will expand capacity to 60,000. I can attest, the atmosphere of a Saturday night game at Dowdy-Ficklen is second to none in college football.

ECU's Dowdy Ficklen Stadium (Pic: Anthony Barham)
ECU’s Dowdy-Ficklen Stadium (Pic: Anthony Barham)

Baseball and basketball facilities are first rate, the eastern North Carolina campus is beautiful, the BBQ is incomparable, the community is highly supportive and any university that produces mega star Sandra Bullock and baseball superstar Mike Trout must be doing something right. Rivalries with Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky and South Carolina could only enhance the SEC experience.

UNC-Charlotte is a unique situation and will require a bit of imagination. Founded in 1946, UNC-Charlotte has 22,200 undergrads and 5,000 graduate students. The school has 90,000 alums and supports an endowment of $152 million. The 49ers have bounced around several conferences over the years and enter their first year as a FBS school in 2015. The school began playing football only three years ago and would be at a huge disadvantage on the gridiron for several years. The new on-campus stadium has a current capacity of 15,000 but was designed to expand to 40,000. In addition, Bank of America stadium in downtown Charlotte seats 73,000 and is eight miles down the road.

9,105-seat Halton Arena was voted as the 22nd best basketball arena in the country by Stadium Journal Magazine and the soccer, track, baseball and other athletic facilities are all world-class. The fan base is growing and football has energized the student body.

The campus sits on 1,000 wooded acres adjacent to a major research park and one of the major financial centers in the world. UNC-Charlotte, although a large public institution, doesn’t fit the SEC mold but delivers the 24th largest television market in the country and a wealthy, influential and rapidly growing city. Only 90 miles from Columbia, 195 miles from Athens, 230 miles from Knoxville and 400 miles from Nashville and Lexington, UNC-Charlotte provides an interesting scenario for the SEC.

Culturally, East Carolina is more aligned with the conference and is ready to compete on the SEC gridirons, fields and courts. It would be a welcomed addition and provide first rate competition while opening a new market for the conference. UNC-Charlotte will be competitive in all sports immediately but football will take a few years. The 49ers are a step out of the box for the SEC but offers tremendous potential, proximity to several SEC schools and instant access to a top 25 television market.

Another round of college conference re-alignment is inevitable and the SEC should take the natural step of expanding to Oklahoma and the bold and visionary step into North Carolina.

I can live with ECU in the SEC. Well, i guess I'll see you AAC guys at dowdy and maybe we LL see each other at your place on the away game of a 2 for 1. Cheers!
08-12-2015 04:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BamaScorpio69 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,602
Joined: Oct 2010
Reputation: 149
I Root For: Non-AQs
Location:
Post: #44
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-12-2015 12:37 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-11-2015 09:24 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  New SEC Pods

East Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida

Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

Arkansas
LSU
Texas A&M
Missouri

Your welcome.

It's not "your".
08-12-2015 05:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wilkie01 Offline
Cards Prognosticater
Jersey Retired

Posts: 26,753
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 1072
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Planet Red
Post: #45
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-12-2015 05:37 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 12:37 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-11-2015 09:24 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  New SEC Pods

East Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida

Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

Arkansas
LSU
Texas A&M
Missouri

Your welcome.

It's not "your".
your welcome
The improper way of typing out the phrase You're welcome.

Often used by people who never learned how to spell, or who lack Grammar teachers that give a damn.
Your = Possesion; This is your salami.
You're = You are; Are you sure you're gonna do that?

guy: "Thanks alot."
guy 2: "Your welcome."
guy: "Wow. You're an idiot."

07-coffee3
08-12-2015 05:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BamaScorpio69 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,602
Joined: Oct 2010
Reputation: 149
I Root For: Non-AQs
Location:
Post: #46
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-12-2015 05:55 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 05:37 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 12:37 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-11-2015 09:24 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  New SEC Pods

East Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida

Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

Arkansas
LSU
Texas A&M
Missouri

Your welcome.

It's not "your".
your welcome
The improper way of typing out the phrase You're welcome.

Often used by people who never learned how to spell, or who lack Grammar teachers that give a damn.
Your = Possesion; This is your salami.
You're = You are; Are you sure you're gonna do that?

guy: "Thanks alot."
guy 2: "Your welcome."
guy: "Wow. You're an idiot."

07-coffee3

04-cheers
08-12-2015 07:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
10thMountain Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,358
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation: 357
I Root For: A&M, TCU
Location:
Post: #47
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
I can't see the presidents greenlighting ECU.

But getting into VA/NC should be our priority as a conference for endgame expansion.

Now the truth is it might be another decade before we could get the teams we want, or maybe the B1G could tear apart the ACC a year from now to get teams for their renegotiation.

Either way, the SEC can afford to be patient and take nobody at all. We aren't going to be the orphan home for wayward teams just to fit someone's fanboard fantasy
08-12-2015 07:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
He1nousOne Offline
The One you Love to Hate.
*

Posts: 13,285
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 215
I Root For: Iowa/ASU
Location: Arizona
Post: #48
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-12-2015 05:37 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 12:37 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-11-2015 09:24 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  New SEC Pods

East Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida

Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

Arkansas
LSU
Texas A&M
Missouri

Your welcome.

It's not "your".

That was on page 1. Your pathetic.
08-12-2015 07:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ECUPirated Offline
NAPALMINATOR
*

Posts: 4,079
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 187
I Root For: American Rising
Location: G-VEGAS
Post: #49
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
Nobody on here (including my fellow ECU brethren) know what the SEC is thinking. I remember an article so many years ago that mentioned ECU / SEC had had some kind of discussions (even if is was just what the school needed to do looking into the future) in the event of realignment. Some forget that Mike Slive was the CUSA commissioner and is/was aware of what ECU brought to the table. We might not be a national brand at this point in time, but then again neither was Va Tech, Utah, TCU, etc. Much of realignment IMHO isn't about academics, research dollars, directional school conotation, but timing and media contracts. Our job as fans is to "pimp" our school to any and all who will listen. We know what we have to offer. I don't why so many others think their opinions matter more because of what "they think they know". I couldn't and wouldn't speak to the merits of Boise, NIU, Cincy, UCF, BYU, etc. Their fans know their schools and I'd expect them to push their school as much as the next. The SEC is not above taking a "startup" if you will. Go back and look at South Carolina's football program the year before and after they joined the SEC. Do I think ECU gets invited......probably not, but it's not some outlandish thought to think that it could happen for a variety of reasons. Rant over.
08-12-2015 08:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RIFRAF Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 232
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 16
I Root For: ECU
Location:
Post: #50
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-12-2015 08:54 PM)ECUPirated Wrote:  Nobody on here (including my fellow ECU brethren) know what the SEC is thinking. I remember an article so many years ago that mentioned ECU / SEC had had some kind of discussions (even if is was just what the school needed to do looking into the future) in the event of realignment. Some forget that Mike Slive was the CUSA commissioner and is/was aware of what ECU brought to the table. We might not be a national brand at this point in time, but then again neither was Va Tech, Utah, TCU, etc. Much of realignment IMHO isn't about academics, research dollars, directional school conotation, but timing and media contracts. Our job as fans is to "pimp" our school to any and all who will listen. We know what we have to offer. I don't why so many others think their opinions matter more because of what "they think they know". I couldn't and wouldn't speak to the merits of Boise, NIU, Cincy, UCF, BYU, etc. Their fans know their schools and I'd expect them to push their school as much as the next. The SEC is not above taking a "startup" if you will. Go back and look at South Carolina's football program the year before and after they joined the SEC. Do I think ECU gets invited......probably not, but it's not some outlandish thought to think that it could happen for a variety of reasons. Rant over.

Amen...and by the way, the SEC put there TV headquarters in NC for a reason. Not saying it will be ECU, but they are after a presence in the state. N.C. State would be a good fit, but I cannot see them puling away from UNC, they are mentally addicted to the Tar Heels. If they were courageous they would join the SEC and give the finger to UNC.
08-12-2015 09:17 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Frank the Tank Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,840
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 1803
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #51
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
The SEC Network is located in Charlotte because the ESPN Regional facilities have long been located there. Nothing more than that. Even the old ESPN Plus Big Ten studio shows originated from those same facilities prior to the formation of the Big Ten Network. Now, the SEC would certainly love UNC, Duke and/or NC State. I just don't buy that anyone else in that state interests them at all.
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2015 09:40 PM by Frank the Tank.)
08-12-2015 09:38 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 38,167
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7891
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #52
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
Expansion targets for the SEC and Big 10 are relatively the same.

For the SEC:

Brand targets that add revenue: Texas, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Virginia Tech

Market targets that add revenue: Virginia, N.C. State

Schools that could travel with a brand or market additions besides other brand or market additions: Florida State, Duke

For the Big 10:

Brand targets that add revenue: Texas, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Notre Dame, and possibly Syracuse.

Market targets that add revenue: Virginia Tech, N.C. State, Georgia Tech, and possibly Boston College.

Schools that could travel with brand or market additions besides other brand or market additions: Kansas and Duke.

Conclusions:

The Big 12 may be in the weakest position within the P5 logistically and because of defections, but it certainly is not the most desirable product in total, and it is not going to be the easiest conference from which to grow the other P5 conferences.

Texas is strong enough that they likely will not be forced to go anywhere, unless they just want to go.

Oklahoma doesn't know where it wants to go. Sure Boren may lean Big 10, the donors may lean SEC, and other of their supporters may still see the PAC as the choicest destination, but in reality they are too conflicted at this time to move anywhere.

Kansas would jump to the Big 10 almost faster than they could be asked. But do they really move the Big 10's needle that much? No. Not as long as there are targets to the East.

So we've spent another year on this board coddling the notions that this or that G5 program could make the move up. Frankly the only way that happens is if the Big 12 decides to expand and that isn't likely. We've spent another year arguing the merits of the Big 10 vs the SEC and vice versa with regards to OU and UT and in reality that isn't likely either.

What remains the most likely thing to happen the board refuses to acknowledge largely because of its composition and that remains that only the ACC really satisfies the yearnings of the Big 10 and the any movement from the ACC would thereby enable the SEC to seek what it desires the most as well. And that it easier to build a viable and competitive 4th power conference by building one around Texas and Oklahoma than it is to overcome the dichotomous thinking and construction of the ACC. But, having said that I don't think the ACC is that vulnerable at this juncture.

So we wait another year and rehash the same stuff yet again. Yawn! And next year the situation will remain the same, the goals will remain the same, and only the pressure of economic disparity and time will inch the ACC or Big 12 closer to further changes.

The proof of all of this is simply in the numbers: total revenue, size of alumni bases, attendance and travel figures, market size, and national brand recognition.
The rest is just hogwash and wishful thinking.
08-13-2015 07:31 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,062
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 778
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #53
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
The problem is the best football the past 10 years in North Carolina have been ECU. ECU's first year in football is 1932. They are one of the oldest programs in the country, not as old as the Ivy schools and some others.
08-13-2015 07:31 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chidave Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 894
Joined: Jul 2013
Reputation: 83
I Root For: Charlotte 49ers
Location:
Post: #54
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-12-2015 03:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 02:16 PM)chidave Wrote:  If the GoR is unbreakable, then that takes all the ACC schools out of the running. NC State would be the SEC's preferred choice (culturally UNC-Chapel Hill is not a fit) but if they are off the table, then the article does make some sense.

Why do you think UNC doesn't fit the SEC culturally? I'm not saying that UNC would go to the SEC if they had an option (either the Big Ten or a stable ACC). I don't think they would. And while there may not be a cultural affinity with the SEC West schools, there surely is with schools like Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt and South Carolina. If they could go to the SEC with partners like Duke, UVa and Georgia Tech, affinity would not be a barrier.

-Two words are commonly used to describe the crowds at Chapel Hill football games, wine and cheese. Those are not two words I would use to describe most SEC fan-bases.

-Their stadium is affectionately referred to as "The Aluminum Jungle".

-They are a basketball first school, with the exception of Kentucky that is not the case with the other SEC schools.

-Despite having multiple in-state rivals and being the flagship of the state, their football team does not excite their fan-base.

-If they joined the SEC, their biggest natural rival would be South Carolina. Coincidentally they are playing South Carolina this year in Charlotte, as of a couple of weeks ago 30,000 seats remained available for that game.

-The university is mired in an academic fraud scandal that spans multiple sports and decades.

-Where entry into the SEC would I believe spark fan interest in NC State and ECU to the point where they would quickly get on par with at least the middle of the SEC, the reaction of Chapel Hill fans would for the most part be a collective yawn.

-If you had been to football games at Chapel Hill and SEC schools, you would not need to ask this question. I can see and feel the similarity in fan bases when I go to State or ECU, but none when I go to Chapel Hill.

Also, if I remember correctly it was reported that Chapel Hill and Duke approached the SEC about membership as a package prior to the GoR, and were refused.

If there's a way around the GoR, for these reasons and many others NC State is the better choice. If it is not unbreakable (as the article assumes) the SEC is in an interesting position, along with Oklahoma do you take OSU, West Virginia, Kansas, or ECU (to get into NC). If you look at the situation in its entirety, you can see why it's a tough decision.
08-13-2015 07:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,062
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 778
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #55
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-13-2015 07:31 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Expansion targets for the SEC and Big 10 are relatively the same.

For the SEC:

Brand targets that add revenue: Texas, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Virginia Tech

Market targets that add revenue: Virginia, N.C. State

Schools that could travel with a brand or market additions besides other brand or market additions: Florida State, Duke

For the Big 10:

Brand targets that add revenue: Texas, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Notre Dame, and possibly Syracuse.

Market targets that add revenue: Virginia Tech, N.C. State, Georgia Tech, and possibly Boston College.

Schools that could travel with brand or market additions besides other brand or market additions: Kansas and Duke.

Conclusions:

The Big 12 may be in the weakest position within the P5 logistically and because of defections, but it certainly is not the most desirable product in total, and it is not going to be the easiest conference from which to grow the other P5 conferences.

Texas is strong enough that they likely will not be forced to go anywhere, unless they just want to go.

Oklahoma doesn't know where it wants to go. Sure Boren may lean Big 10, the donors may lean SEC, and other of their supporters may still see the PAC as the choicest destination, but in reality they are too conflicted at this time to move anywhere.

Kansas would jump to the Big 10 almost faster than they could be asked. But do they really move the Big 10's needle that much? No. Not as long as there are targets to the East.

So we've spent another year on this board coddling the notions that this or that G5 program could make the move up. Frankly the only way that happens is if the Big 12 decides to expand and that isn't likely. We've spent another year arguing the merits of the Big 10 vs the SEC and vice versa with regards to OU and UT and in reality that isn't likely either.

What remains the most likely thing to happen the board refuses to acknowledge largely because of its composition and that remains that only the ACC really satisfies the yearnings of the Big 10 and the any movement from the ACC would thereby enable the SEC to seek what it desires the most as well. And that it easier to build a viable and competitive 4th power conference by building one around Texas and Oklahoma than it is to overcome the dichotomous thinking and construction of the ACC. But, having said that I don't think the ACC is that vulnerable at this juncture.

So we wait another year and rehash the same stuff yet again. Yawn! And next year the situation will remain the same, the goals will remain the same, and only the pressure of economic disparity and time will inch the ACC or Big 12 closer to further changes.

The proof of all of this is simply in the numbers: total revenue, size of alumni bases, attendance and travel figures, market size, and national brand recognition.
The rest is just hogwash and wishful thinking.



People were arguing the same thing that TCU, Utah and Louisville did not bring much like East Carolina, and look were they wound up at? It is gonna happen since the P5 conference schools know that they are actually leaving money on the table if they do not add more of the Top G5 schools.
08-13-2015 07:35 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bluesox Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,304
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 84
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #56
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
The difference between the ACC and Big 12 is none of the ACC targets that the big 10 or SEC want have any interest in joining the big 10 or SEC, i.e. the UNC or UVA + friends. Considering UNC and UVA have plenty of money any bump from joining the big 10 or SEC is meaningless. For the ACC to lose school's, the big 10 and SEC would need to target other school's like clemson/FSU to the SEC or syracuse/FSU to the big 10. Than you get into how big does a league want to get. If leagues want rule changes, you could get very large and setup divisions that act as mini-conferences with 1 central office/network. Considering the ACC and big 12 are somewhat weaker, i think those 2 could merge and form 3 division of 9 if they wanted to purse that option with little cross over other than a football title game. If the end game for the big 10 and SEC is 16, i think they pick apart the big 12. WHo goes where is a lot of give and take. I'm sure if the big 10 and SEC split up texas and OU with each getting 1, that would be an ideal situation for both.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2015 08:51 AM by bluesox.)
08-13-2015 08:48 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
blunderbuss Offline
Banned

Posts: 19,649
Joined: Apr 2011
I Root For: ECU & the CSA
Location: Buzz City, NC
Post: #57
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-13-2015 07:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  People were arguing the same thing that TCU, Utah and Louisville did not bring much like East Carolina, and look were they wound up at? It is gonna happen since the P5 conference schools know that they are actually leaving money on the table if they do not add more of the Top G5 schools.

Who the hell was arguing ANY of that? FFS, TCU and Utah are tier 1 schools that have won BCS bowls. One is a rich private school in a large media market in a football crazy state. The other is a flagship U in a large market. Louisville is a tier 1 school in a large market with little competition and literally a powerhouse athletic program ($90+ million budget to boot).

These threads have just gotten embarrassing for ECU fans. We were a last resort pick for the Big East. That's a simple fact. I used to pimp ECU a lot on here because, yes, we do have a lot of positives but we've also got some warts, some BIG warts. Directional academics, located in over saturated state for sports, not in a large media market, basically a one (maybe 2 trick pony if you include baseball 03-yawn) and absolutely HORRID basketball. We're a 7 to 9 win program basically. That's not really enough to overcome all those warts. Look at all Boise has done compared to us and where they sit, likely forever.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2015 09:13 AM by blunderbuss.)
08-13-2015 09:13 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
samandrea Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 755
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 58
I Root For: UNC
Location: Northern VA
Post: #58
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-13-2015 07:35 AM)chidave Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 03:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 02:16 PM)chidave Wrote:  If the GoR is unbreakable, then that takes all the ACC schools out of the running. NC State would be the SEC's preferred choice (culturally UNC-Chapel Hill is not a fit) but if they are off the table, then the article does make some sense.

Why do you think UNC doesn't fit the SEC culturally? I'm not saying that UNC would go to the SEC if they had an option (either the Big Ten or a stable ACC). I don't think they would. And while there may not be a cultural affinity with the SEC West schools, there surely is with schools like Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt and South Carolina. If they could go to the SEC with partners like Duke, UVa and Georgia Tech, affinity would not be a barrier.

-Two words are commonly used to describe the crowds at Chapel Hill football games, wine and cheese. Those are not two words I would use to describe most SEC fan-bases.

-Their stadium is affectionately referred to as "The Aluminum Jungle".

-They are a basketball first school, with the exception of Kentucky that is not the case with the other SEC schools.

-Despite having multiple in-state rivals and being the flagship of the state, their football team does not excite their fan-base.

-If they joined the SEC, their biggest natural rival would be South Carolina. Coincidentally they are playing South Carolina this year in Charlotte, as of a couple of weeks ago 30,000 seats remained available for that game.

-The university is mired in an academic fraud scandal that spans multiple sports and decades.

-Where entry into the SEC would I believe spark fan interest in NC State and ECU to the point where they would quickly get on par with at least the middle of the SEC, the reaction of Chapel Hill fans would for the most part be a collective yawn.

-If you had been to football games at Chapel Hill and SEC schools, you would not need to ask this question. I can see and feel the similarity in fan bases when I go to State or ECU, but none when I go to Chapel Hill.

Also, if I remember correctly it was reported that Chapel Hill and Duke approached the SEC about membership as a package prior to the GoR, and were refused.

If there's a way around the GoR, for these reasons and many others NC State is the better choice. If it is not unbreakable (as the article assumes) the SEC is in an interesting position, along with Oklahoma do you take OSU, West Virginia, Kansas, or ECU (to get into NC). If you look at the situation in its entirety, you can see why it's a tough decision.

Never heard this. If Carolina had wanted in the SEC prior to GoR, they would be in SEC now.
08-13-2015 09:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,419
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 1226
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #59
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-13-2015 07:35 AM)chidave Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 03:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-12-2015 02:16 PM)chidave Wrote:  If the GoR is unbreakable, then that takes all the ACC schools out of the running. NC State would be the SEC's preferred choice (culturally UNC-Chapel Hill is not a fit) but if they are off the table, then the article does make some sense.

Why do you think UNC doesn't fit the SEC culturally? I'm not saying that UNC would go to the SEC if they had an option (either the Big Ten or a stable ACC). I don't think they would. And while there may not be a cultural affinity with the SEC West schools, there surely is with schools like Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt and South Carolina. If they could go to the SEC with partners like Duke, UVa and Georgia Tech, affinity would not be a barrier.

-Two words are commonly used to describe the crowds at Chapel Hill football games, wine and cheese. Those are not two words I would use to describe most SEC fan-bases.

-Their stadium is affectionately referred to as "The Aluminum Jungle".

-They are a basketball first school, with the exception of Kentucky that is not the case with the other SEC schools.

-Despite having multiple in-state rivals and being the flagship of the state, their football team does not excite their fan-base.

-If they joined the SEC, their biggest natural rival would be South Carolina. Coincidentally they are playing South Carolina this year in Charlotte, as of a couple of weeks ago 30,000 seats remained available for that game.

-The university is mired in an academic fraud scandal that spans multiple sports and decades.

-Where entry into the SEC would I believe spark fan interest in NC State and ECU to the point where they would quickly get on par with at least the middle of the SEC, the reaction of Chapel Hill fans would for the most part be a collective yawn.

-If you had been to football games at Chapel Hill and SEC schools, you would not need to ask this question. I can see and feel the similarity in fan bases when I go to State or ECU, but none when I go to Chapel Hill.

Also, if I remember correctly it was reported that Chapel Hill and Duke approached the SEC about membership as a package prior to the GoR, and were refused.

If there's a way around the GoR, for these reasons and many others NC State is the better choice. If it is not unbreakable (as the article assumes) the SEC is in an interesting position, along with Oklahoma do you take OSU, West Virginia, Kansas, or ECU (to get into NC). If you look at the situation in its entirety, you can see why it's a tough decision.

I get where you're coming from, but nothing you have said would cause me to change my post in any way. Read the whole post, not just the first sentence.
08-13-2015 09:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Niner National Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,601
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 494
I Root For: Charlotte 49ers
Location:
Post: #60
RE: SEC Expansion Opinion Article
(08-13-2015 09:13 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(08-13-2015 07:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  People were arguing the same thing that TCU, Utah and Louisville did not bring much like East Carolina, and look were they wound up at? It is gonna happen since the P5 conference schools know that they are actually leaving money on the table if they do not add more of the Top G5 schools.

Who the hell was arguing ANY of that? FFS, TCU and Utah are tier 1 schools that have won BCS bowls. One is a rich private school in a large media market in a football crazy state. The other is a flagship U in a large market. Louisville is a tier 1 school in a large market with little competition and literally a powerhouse athletic program ($90+ million budget to boot).

These threads have just gotten embarrassing for ECU fans. We were a last resort pick for the Big East. That's a simple fact. I used to pimp ECU a lot on here because, yes, we do have a lot of positives but we've also got some warts, some BIG warts. Directional academics, located in over saturated state for sports, not in a large media market, basically a one (maybe 2 trick pony if you include baseball 03-yawn) and absolutely HORRID basketball. We're a 7 to 9 win program basically. That's not really enough to overcome all those warts. Look at all Boise has done compared to us and where they sit, likely forever.
Honestly though, if ECU had the kind of success Boise has had, I think you guys would have been an absolute lock for the Big East years ago. While you're not in a major market, you're also not in the middle of nowhere like Boise is. Fan base is also considerably better and you're basically Harvard compared to Boise State.
08-13-2015 09:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.