Ohio State marching band’s Nazi song draws Jewish ire

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Ohio-State...ire-410895

Ohio State wants fired band director's lawsuit thrown out

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/...-case.html

They obviously have a culture that needs to rinsed and not repeated.

I suppose the university figures they've done enough by firing Waters and don't want further alumni uproar over punishing the band itself. But wasn't there a fraternity in Oklahoma recently *shut down* over almost the exact same behaviors?

No dotting of the eye will cause more people to get angry. Trust me. Fire the leader and move on with life.

How are the Zips still fielding a football team after allegations of feeding their players opiates and having 2 die of heroin overdoses after college?

I actually would have a major issue if they did suspend punish anyone for this just as I did with the events in Oklahoma. These may be band members, but they are certainly entitled to their own private opinions and expressions and no school (or city/county/state/country/etc) has a right to dictate what is and is not acceptable in that matter.

The school can demand that any such book not be brought to official band events, but freedom of speech entire purpose is to protect speech that is found offensive (no other kind of speech needs protecting).

(08-04-2015 11:21 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I actually would have a major issue if they did suspend punish anyone for this just as I did with the events in Oklahoma. These may be band members, but they are certainly entitled to their own private opinions and expressions and no school (or city/county/state/country/etc) has a right to dictate what is and is not acceptable in that matter.

The school can demand that any such book not be brought to official band events, but freedom of speech entire purpose is to protect speech that is found offensive (no other kind of speech needs protecting).

Your view is commendable and I agree completely. It is also total anathema to the modern hyper-PC, hyper-progressive, culture that dominates colleges today. Counter-culture has been purged and is never promoted on campus. It, along with DC and Hollywood, is one of the biggest bubbles disconnected with reality in America.

(08-04-2015 10:58 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  How are the Zips still fielding a football team after allegations of feeding their players opiates and having 2 die of heroin overdoses after college?

That's a separate issue...start a thread.

(08-04-2015 11:21 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I actually would have a major issue if they did suspend punish anyone for this just as I did with the events in Oklahoma. These may be band members, but they are certainly entitled to their own private opinions and expressions and no school (or city/county/state/country/etc) has a right to dictate what is and is not acceptable in that matter.

The school can demand that any such book not be brought to official band events, but freedom of speech entire purpose is to protect speech that is found offensive (no other kind of speech needs protecting).

A school (and especially a voluntary student group) absolutely does have a right to set rules, codes of conduct, hate-speech restrictions, etc. It's not a First Amendment issue in this context.

A school is a public institution rather than a private one. They cannot tell a student what to think or deny them an education based on their opinions. Hate speech is ultimately still just political speech (even if we agree it's trash).

With the band itself, it gets a bit more complicated, but as an institution of the school, I think the same basically applies. This doesn't mean the band has to accept any behavior, but they also can't dictate personal opinions of students. If we were talking a private school, the rules change completely.

All of that said, it's not just first amendment rights I dislike with all of this. I don't like the general public outcry to kick out anyone from anything (private as well as public) when they are deemed by the public to be racist/homophobes/sexist/against religion/etc. You can certainly not like said individuals, but a lot of the judgements are made after very limited comments which is making us super vigilant on saying the right thing (which limits good dialogue). Even more importantly, as a society, it feels like we are turning into big group think which makes having minority viewpoints increasingly difficult. Even an accusation of being a racist/sexist/homophobe today is pretty much as bad as an accusation of being a communist in the 50s imo.

(08-05-2015 10:28 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  A school is a public institution rather than a private one. They cannot tell a student what to think or deny them an education based on their opinions.

They can deny the right to put on the uniform. No question about that.

(08-05-2015 03:23 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(08-05-2015 10:28 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  A school is a public institution rather than a private one. They cannot tell a student what to think or deny them an education based on their opinions.

They can deny the right to put on the uniform. No question about that.

Legally that's probably how it's interpreted, but if you act well while in uniform, I think it's a big violation of rights to deny it based simply on being offensive. There's nothing illegal about the actives, they are just in bad taste. Opinions of the day vary tremendously in regards to what is over the line so I'm much more inclined to say that as long as individuals show respect while interacting in the uniform, the school cannot prevent them for joining for being in poor taste later. That's way too slippery of a slope for my liking (not that we aren't already on it :( ).

For the record: I'd say the same thing if what was being written were anti-Catholic remarks (I'm Catholic) or anti-white (I'm white). I'd be offended, but the rights issue is one I get a little strung up on. Now if they we're pro-Michigan comments, that's another story

(08-05-2015 09:47 AM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:58 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  How are the Zips still fielding a football team after allegations of feeding their players opiates and having 2 die of heroin overdoses after college?

That's a separate issue...start a thread.

Start a thread on our board, to call out Ohio State, I will call you and your school out on our board.

(08-04-2015 11:21 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I actually would have a major issue if they did suspend punish anyone for this just as I did with the events in Oklahoma. These may be band members, but they are certainly entitled to their own private opinions and expressions and no school (or city/county/state/country/etc) has a right to dictate what is and is not acceptable in that matter.

The school can demand that any such book not be brought to official band events, but freedom of speech entire purpose is to protect speech that is found offensive (no other kind of speech needs protecting).

Although I think the book is in poor taste, they have every right to do as they wish here. And yes the University can tell them you aren't allowed to use this at officially sanctioned events/meetings. Both are well within their rights there. They aren't "yelling fire in a crowded theater" or "bomb on airliner" so not much there to see.

(08-06-2015 06:45 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(08-05-2015 09:47 AM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 10:58 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  How are the Zips still fielding a football team after allegations of feeding their players opiates and having 2 die of heroin overdoses after college?

That's a separate issue...start a thread.

Start a thread on our board, to call out Ohio State, I will call you and your school out on our board.

So you don't disagree the band should be suspended for a year?

(08-04-2015 11:21 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I actually would have a major issue if they did suspend punish anyone for this just as I did with the events in Oklahoma. These may be band members, but they are certainly entitled to their own private opinions and expressions and no school (or city/county/state/country/etc) has a right to dictate what is and is not acceptable in that matter.

The school can demand that any such book not be brought to official band events, but freedom of speech entire purpose is to protect speech that is found offensive (no other kind of speech needs protecting).

Yeah, but thinking, caring adults (and proto-adults) usually try to be inoffensive, even if they know that offensive remarks and actions are protected by the First Amendment. There's really no upside to being boorish just for the sake of being boorish.