(07-30-2015 06:03 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The rule that applies is that the PAC was so damn excited to try and get to 16 when that included Texas, TTU, Oklahoma and OSU that this statement about being so happy at 12 seems very disingenuous ...

12 is the sweet spot everything else equal, but when "everything else" includes having Texas and Oklahoma in your conference, then everything else is far from equal.

We saw that when it was just OkU and OkSU (Go Pokes!) on offer, 12 was sweeter than 14.

Twelve teams is the sweet spot for a two division conference. His words were "sweet spot". With new divisional rules after expanding to 16, the PAC will still have a 9 game conference schedule with a strong Central Time Zone contingent that allows the conference to be showcased at all kick off times.

But we are supposed to believe that the concept doesn't sound good. Sure thing bud, sure thing. Your defense of Scott's denials while at the same time calling other conference commissioners disingenuous while making similar statements is hypocritical, you know that right?

(07-30-2015 06:42 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 06:03 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The rule that applies is that the PAC was so damn excited to try and get to 16 when that included Texas, TTU, Oklahoma and OSU that this statement about being so happy at 12 seems very disingenuous ...

12 is the sweet spot everything else equal, but when "everything else" includes having Texas and Oklahoma in your conference, then everything else is far from equal.

We saw that when it was just OkU and OkSU (Go Pokes!) on offer, 12 was sweeter than 14.

It had nothing to do with 12 and 14. It had to do with expanding with two schools from the same 4 million population state. False logic is false.

(07-30-2015 06:44 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 06:42 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 06:03 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The rule that applies is that the PAC was so damn excited to try and get to 16 when that included Texas, TTU, Oklahoma and OSU that this statement about being so happy at 12 seems very disingenuous ...

12 is the sweet spot everything else equal, but when "everything else" includes having Texas and Oklahoma in your conference, then everything else is far from equal.

We saw that when it was just OkU and OkSU (Go Pokes!) on offer, 12 was sweeter than 14.

It had nothing to do with 12 and 14. It had to do with expanding with two schools from the same 4 million population state. False logic is false.

True logic then must be adding a school that only brings half of a 4 million population state.

Ah I forgot, millions upon millions of non-Oklahomans will watch OU games ... because ... everyone loves and knows OU just like they do Notre Dame. Right.

(07-30-2015 05:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 05:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  In my personal opinion, the PAC should stick to the Pacific and Mountain time zones. Otherwise, what's the point of calling yourself the PAC conference?

And the Big Ten should have exactly 10 schools and all of them should be in the midwest. Right?

Obviously it doesn't apply to ambiguous conference names, like "Big" and "[number]". The number is especially irrelevant.

But to say you're the "Pacific Conference" and have teams in the Eastern time zone? Or to say you're the "Southeastern Conference" and have teams in the Pacific time zone?

Doesn't make sense.

(07-30-2015 06:44 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  It had nothing to do with 12 and 14. It had to do with expanding with two schools from the same 4 million population state. False logic is false.

If 14 was better than 12, and given that they'd like to have Oklahoma, getting to 14 with their in-state rivals would be no worse than it was having two schools in a 4m state when they were the PAC-8.

(07-31-2015 12:13 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 06:44 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  It had nothing to do with 12 and 14. It had to do with expanding with two schools from the same 4 million population state. False logic is false.

If 14 was better than 12, and given that they'd like to have Oklahoma, getting to 14 with their in-state rivals would be no worse than it was having two schools in a 4m state when they were the PAC-8.

I just said it wasn't about 14 and 12. Stop debating the straw man.

so no openings for UC Santa Barbara, UC San Diego or Hawaii in the Pac? No fair!

(07-31-2015 02:34 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  so no openings for UC Santa Barbara, UC San Diego or Hawaii in the Pac? No fair!

Academically, UCSB and UCD (and probably UCI) should be there.

UCSB has a pretty large stadium, big enough for football, right?

Or am I thinking of Bakersfield or maybe Fullerton?

(07-31-2015 12:18 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 12:13 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 06:44 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  It had nothing to do with 12 and 14. It had to do with expanding with two schools from the same 4 million population state. False logic is false.

If 14 was better than 12, and given that they'd like to have Oklahoma, getting to 14 with their in-state rivals would be no worse than it was having two schools in a 4m state when they were the PAC-8.

I just said it wasn't about 14 and 12. Stop debating the straw man.

He was responding to your (absurd) comment about expanding with two schools in a 4 million state.

They've already done that, with Arizona. Except their population was 2.5 million back in 1978.


Stop dodging.

I just don't see why the PAC would add teams east of the Mountain Time Zone.

BYU is the only west coast school with big time athletics and academics that isn't already in the PAC. All BSU has is a really good football team and a decent b-ball team.

I believe in the next 10 years, you'll see the PAC 12 really struggle to keep up with the B1G and SEC....

I really believe USC, Stanford, Cal, and UCLA will one day look eastward at the B1G....it's a long ways off, and still several chess moves ahead, but I really don't see any way the PAC 12 money will satisfy the Cali schools forever....

When you really put the PAC 12 under a microscope, a lot of the league really isn't that marketable....and the sticking point is they have no one to add.

They could try and add Oklahoma and Oklahoma State for content, and maybe TCU and Rice for markets....but they need to act fast on that, and Oklahoma doesn't seem all that interested in going westward.

We'll see

(07-31-2015 11:38 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  I just don't see why the PAC would add teams east of the Mountain Time Zone.

BYU is the only west coast school with big time athletics and academics that isn't already in the PAC. All BSU has is a really good football team and a decent b-ball team.

they already have Utah covered.....

the PAC 12 MUST add eastern teams....they're going to quickly fall behind the B1G and SEC, just like everyone else

they need Texas teams for markets, and Oklahoma wouldn't hurt for content...

(07-30-2015 11:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 05:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 05:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  In my personal opinion, the PAC should stick to the Pacific and Mountain time zones. Otherwise, what's the point of calling yourself the PAC conference?

And the Big Ten should have exactly 10 schools and all of them should be in the midwest. Right?

Obviously it doesn't apply to ambiguous conference names, like "Big" and "[number]". The number is especially irrelevant.

But to say you're the "Pacific Conference" and have teams in the Eastern time zone? Or to say you're the "Southeastern Conference" and have teams in the Pacific time zone?

Doesn't make sense.

Geography is becoming less of a factor in expansion

It is about the BRAND and marketing your product, ie TV network

I think the pac 12 needs to make that pac 20 move now. ITs really an easy 2 step process:

1) pac 12 invites 8 big 12 school's, everybody but baylor and WVU
2) Acc invites WVU and Baylor along with uconn to get to 18. Thus, no big 12 lawsuits.

i'm sure espn could muscle both moves + buy into the pac 12 network and start an acc network. Otherwise, i do think the big 10 will march through and eventually pick off pac 12 school's.

(07-31-2015 12:50 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 11:38 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  I just don't see why the PAC would add teams east of the Mountain Time Zone.

BYU is the only west coast school with big time athletics and academics that isn't already in the PAC. All BSU has is a really good football team and a decent b-ball team.

they already have Utah covered.....

the PAC 12 MUST add eastern teams....they're going to quickly fall behind the B1G and SEC, just like everyone else

they need Texas teams for markets, and Oklahoma wouldn't hurt for content...

They absolutely do not need to expand east.

They have the Pacific time zone completely locked up. There are plenty of viewers and money out there.


Not everything has to be looked at like a mutual fund. There doesn't always have to be growth in every facet of life.

(07-31-2015 01:35 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 12:50 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 11:38 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  I just don't see why the PAC would add teams east of the Mountain Time Zone.

BYU is the only west coast school with big time athletics and academics that isn't already in the PAC. All BSU has is a really good football team and a decent b-ball team.

they already have Utah covered.....

the PAC 12 MUST add eastern teams....they're going to quickly fall behind the B1G and SEC, just like everyone else

they need Texas teams for markets, and Oklahoma wouldn't hurt for content...

They absolutely do not need to expand east.

They have the Pacific time zone completely locked up. There are plenty of viewers and money out there.


Not everything has to be looked at like a mutual fund. There doesn't always have to be growth in every facet of life.

Is that your advice for the ACC, Big XII, and PAC 12 when the B1G and SEC start making everyone else's TV deals look like chump change?

(07-31-2015 01:41 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 01:35 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 12:50 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 11:38 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  I just don't see why the PAC would add teams east of the Mountain Time Zone.

BYU is the only west coast school with big time athletics and academics that isn't already in the PAC. All BSU has is a really good football team and a decent b-ball team.

they already have Utah covered.....

the PAC 12 MUST add eastern teams....they're going to quickly fall behind the B1G and SEC, just like everyone else

they need Texas teams for markets, and Oklahoma wouldn't hurt for content...

They absolutely do not need to expand east.

They have the Pacific time zone completely locked up. There are plenty of viewers and money out there.


Not everything has to be looked at like a mutual fund. There doesn't always have to be growth in every facet of life.

Is that your advice for the ACC, Big XII, and PAC 12 when the B1G and SEC start making everyone else's TV deals look like chump change?

Are the PAC schools on verge of bankruptcy? Are they unable to pay multi-million dollar contracts to attract top quality head coaches? Are they unable to attract top talent from the west coast to play at their schools? Are any of the current PAC schools in danger of leaving the conference for the B1G, ACC or SEC?


The answer to all of those questions is the same answer to the question of if the PAC needs to expand east.


So friggin' what if the PAC doesn't keep up with the B1G and the SEC in terms of dollars per school distributed from the conference media deal?!?

There are always going to be elite players in the west coast and the SEC & B1G schools aren't going to be getting many of them to leave their homes and play in the central and eastern time zones. Just a fact.

And they have the Pacific time zone to themselves in terms of exposure slots.


They don't need to expand east, any way you slice it.

Sorry if that screws up your conference expansion fantasies.

(07-31-2015 08:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 12:18 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(07-31-2015 12:13 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 06:44 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  It had nothing to do with 12 and 14. It had to do with expanding with two schools from the same 4 million population state. False logic is false.

If 14 was better than 12, and given that they'd like to have Oklahoma, getting to 14 with their in-state rivals would be no worse than it was having two schools in a 4m state when they were the PAC-8.

I just said it wasn't about 14 and 12. Stop debating the straw man.

He was responding to your (absurd) comment about expanding with two schools in a 4 million state.

They've already done that, with Arizona. Except their population was 2.5 million back in 1978.


Stop dodging.

Um, hey idiot. They expanded with Arizona and Arizona State back in the days when college football was purely regional. Bringing both in meant bringing in their rivalry and bringing in two major universities that were very close to the California schools. In this day, they wouldn't expand with both Arizona and Arizona State just like they wouldn't expand with both Oregon and Oregon State or Washington and Washington State.



So, say something intelligent for once huh? You f'n idiot. It is so pathetic that you truly do not understand how the process of expansion has changed drastically over the years yet you want to sit here and jump in the discussion with the rest of us as if you belong or can keep up. I suppose that happens when you live in a place like North Dakota. When did you guys get internet access there?

(07-31-2015 01:33 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I think the pac 12 needs to make that pac 20 move now. ITs really an easy 2 step process:

1) pac 12 invites 8 big 12 school's, everybody but baylor and WVU
2) Acc invites WVU and Baylor along with uconn to get to 18. Thus, no big 12 lawsuits.

i'm sure espn could muscle both moves + buy into the pac 12 network and start an acc network. Otherwise, i do think the big 10 will march through and eventually pick off pac 12 school's.

PAC 12 mentioned something about the Asian market. They could expand and give a lifeline to Hawaii. That could get them close to the Asian market that they want. New Mexico could bring them that market. UTEP and UTSA could bring them into the Texas market. Going further east could cause travel hardship on some of the California schools. Boise State is also not something to ignore forever.