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Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
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ken d Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-01-2015 10:21 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I'm still not sure why Oklahoma is pushing to get out of the B12. The academics angle sounds like a cover story. The path to the CFP is going to be tougher in the SEC or B1G. It seems like something else is going on. Or maybe Oklahoma is trying to out-Texas Texas?

I wonder if, secretly, Oklahoma actually hopes that Texas will leave the B12 on its own, either as an independent or as a member of another P5 conference (like the ACC). You can make a good case that UT has been the common factor behind the destabilization of the Big 12 for years, and the reason so many good schools have left.
08-02-2015 07:54 AM
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HtownOrange Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-01-2015 10:21 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I'm still not sure why Oklahoma is pushing to get out of the B12. The academics angle sounds like a cover story. The path to the CFP is going to be tougher in the SEC or B1G. It seems like something else is going on. Or maybe Oklahoma is trying to out-Texas Texas?

Oklahoma has been improving academics for some time now. For decades, it was plain that if the Big 8, then Big 12 fell apart, their only option would be SEC. That is not a bad option but they want more options. As you say, the SEC will be a tough row to hoe for a championship. The B1G is overrated, if OU could still recruit Texas HS kids with speed they would blow up the B1G.

In truth, academically they rank the same as Nebraska, so the idea that the B1G would not take them due to academics is questionable. With Louisville in the camp, the would take OU. Geographically, they can fit the bill for any of the four other P5 conferences as an outlier but with their history, they are worth the trouble.

If OU can distinguish their academics, they become more desirable, especially with their football history.
08-02-2015 09:23 AM
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HtownOrange Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 07:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-01-2015 10:21 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I'm still not sure why Oklahoma is pushing to get out of the B12. The academics angle sounds like a cover story. The path to the CFP is going to be tougher in the SEC or B1G. It seems like something else is going on. Or maybe Oklahoma is trying to out-Texas Texas?

I wonder if, secretly, Oklahoma actually hopes that Texas will leave the B12 on its own, either as an independent or as a member of another P5 conference (like the ACC). You can make a good case that UT has been the common factor behind the destabilization of the Big 12 for years, and the reason so many good schools have left.

When it comes to TAMU, they wanted in the SEC when Arkansas left, UT and Baylor politically blocked the move. UT also offered to split the LHN with TAMU, which rejected the offer. Colorado had an eye for the west coast where they recruit student population heavily. When the Big 8 merged with the Texas schools, Nebraska was the power school but they fell off on field and off.

UT was probably a good portion of the problem but not all of it. They are certainly part, if not most of the problem, now. With a TV market consisting for Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and WV, there is too small of a population to support the high rates for TV rights; and Texas blocking expansion, UT is not helping the Big 12.
08-02-2015 09:43 AM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 09:23 AM)HtownOrange Wrote:  
(08-01-2015 10:21 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I'm still not sure why Oklahoma is pushing to get out of the B12. The academics angle sounds like a cover story. The path to the CFP is going to be tougher in the SEC or B1G. It seems like something else is going on. Or maybe Oklahoma is trying to out-Texas Texas?

Oklahoma has been improving academics for some time now. For decades, it was plain that if the Big 8, then Big 12 fell apart, their only option would be SEC. That is not a bad option but they want more options. As you say, the SEC will be a tough row to hoe for a championship. The B1G is overrated, if OU could still recruit Texas HS kids with speed they would blow up the B1G.

In truth, academically they rank the same as Nebraska, so the idea that the B1G would not take them due to academics is questionable. With Louisville in the camp, the would take OU. Geographically, they can fit the bill for any of the four other P5 conferences as an outlier but with their history, they are worth the trouble.

If OU can distinguish their academics, they become more desirable, especially with their football history.

Oh, do tell, why is the Big Ten overrated?
08-02-2015 10:36 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 10:36 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, do tell, why is the Big Ten overrated?

Because too many people don't know the difference between QUANTITY and QUALITY. They think that just because 100,000 people attend Big Ten home games that means they MUST be good.

Ohio State is good. Michigan State is pretty good too.
08-02-2015 11:26 AM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 11:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 10:36 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, do tell, why is the Big Ten overrated?

Because too many people don't know the difference between QUANTITY and QUALITY. They think that just because 100,000 people attend Big Ten home games that means they MUST be good.

Ohio State is good. Michigan State is pretty good too.

Did you even bother to see the ACC's record in Bowl games last season? You guys continuously say this **** without anything to back it up. The Big Ten actually had results last year. The ACC? The worst.

Keep telling yourself this **** though all while the likes of Rutgers is beating the likes of North Carolina in Bowl games.
08-02-2015 12:19 PM
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rednblackattack Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
It's no secret the Big 10 is over hyped every year without delivering results (Ohio St the exception). Much like Iowa getting absolutely pummeled against a mediocre UT team
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2015 03:26 PM by rednblackattack.)
08-02-2015 03:25 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 03:25 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  It's no secret the Big 10 is over hyped every year without delivering results (Ohio St the exception). Much like Iowa getting absolutely pummeled against a mediocre UT team

Or like Auburn, Alabama, Ole Miss and Miss State all losing despite the overhype of the SEC West from preseason all the way through the entire season?

Nice try. It's no secret that The Big Ten had a much better Bowl record than the ACC did. Now that "no secret" statement is actually factual.

Next!
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2015 06:24 PM by He1nousOne.)
08-02-2015 06:22 PM
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RedGrad Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(07-29-2015 04:56 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  OT, but the rant sports is wrong to have Michigan State ahead of us

While this post is certainly not about basketball your point is an understatement. Louisville has more Final Fours and more national championships than Michigan St. In no way are they bigger in college basketball history than Louisville. No way.
08-02-2015 06:58 PM
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RedGrad Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(07-30-2015 06:04 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-30-2015 05:00 AM)Crimsonelf Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 04:56 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  OT, but the rant sports is wrong to have Michigan State ahead of us

Agreed, they are not ahead of the Cards all time, no way.

Also, they give Donovan credit for three titles at Florida? I thought it was two-- which is great work, but it still ain't 3...

I would probably put UL ahead of MSU and UF in hoops as well, but don't make it sound like it's a no-contest comparison. The Cards are close behind UNC and Duke reputation-wise (IMO), but not yet up there with Kentucky, or historically, with UCLA and Indiana.


Still, y'all are way better than VT at basketball, and a definite improvement over Maryland as well.

How does more championships and Final Fours not make it clear cut? I'm confused.
08-02-2015 07:07 PM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 11:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 10:36 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, do tell, why is the Big Ten overrated?

Because too many people don't know the difference between QUANTITY and QUALITY. They think that just because 100,000 people attend Big Ten home games that means they MUST be good.

Ohio State is good. Michigan State is pretty good too.

The laws of physics are completely different north of the Ohio River. Please be patient, as we are easily confused.
08-02-2015 07:35 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 07:35 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 11:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 10:36 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, do tell, why is the Big Ten overrated?

Because too many people don't know the difference between QUANTITY and QUALITY. They think that just because 100,000 people attend Big Ten home games that means they MUST be good.

Ohio State is good. Michigan State is pretty good too.

The laws of physics are completely different north of the Ohio River. Please be patient, as we are easily confused.

Thank you for your honesty, Blue!
08-02-2015 08:39 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 08:39 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 07:35 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 11:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 10:36 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, do tell, why is the Big Ten overrated?

Because too many people don't know the difference between QUANTITY and QUALITY. They think that just because 100,000 people attend Big Ten home games that means they MUST be good.

Ohio State is good. Michigan State is pretty good too.

The laws of physics are completely different north of the Ohio River. Please be patient, as we are easily confused.

Thank you for your honesty, Blue!

No, thank you.
08-02-2015 09:30 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
Why on earth would Maryland be upset with the additions of Virginia Tech, Boston College, Miami, Syracuse and Pitt? That is a very weird claim. Those are probably five of the more geographically friendly and/or like-minded institutions in the league as UMD.

Georgia Tech is Pitt's southern doppelgänger. There are a number of striking similarities between those two schools and their athletics programs. However, after GT, Maryland was probably second on that list of most comparable schools both athletically and academically.

The University of Pittsburgh and the University of Maryland are extremely similar in many ways. As their small state's flagship university, their campus is a bit larger and self contained. We happen to be located in a larger, wealthier state and we are probably better managed and are therefore are not swimming in debt. However, on the whole, we are much more alike than different. It makes no sense for the addition of Pitt (or Syracuse for that matter) to have alienated Maryland.

Honestly, when we first got wind that we were joining the ACC, I expected Maryland to blossom into a pretty good rivalry. There are already fierce rivalries in place between the Steelers and the Ravens as well as the Penguins and the Capitals. I suspect that is because so many Pittsburghers have moved to the Beltway for professional opportunities. Two of my best friends live in Washington, DC and when we go and visit them, aside from the local teams' garb, by far the next most highly represented professional teams are all in black and gold.

Pitt/Maryland seemed to fall right within that same area and I think it had rivalry written all over it. I would guess Penn State is thinking that same way right now.

I don't blame Maryland for leaving the ACC for the Big Ten. The financial difference is just too great and that had to be tempting for a school facing such severe financial hardships as were the Terps. However, to try and pass off the move as being about anything other than money is really difficult to buy. It is sort of like the ACC trying to claim that it took Louisville over Connecticut because of that school's academic prowess. We all know why the ACC choose the Cards. I don't blame them one bit. In fact, I think it was brilliant chess playing by John Swofford. However, why pretend it was anything other than what it was – an attempt at self-preservation?
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2015 09:46 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
08-02-2015 09:44 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
I am not buying that the Big 12 is in trouble. I think schools like Texas and Oklahoma have it made in the shade under the current set up and would each be reduced were they to leave for another league.

People invoke the name Nebraska as though it is a success story. However, Nebraska has not been nearly the same since it lost access to Texas recruiting. The same can be said of Arkansas. The Razorbacks were once a mighty program and they have been anything but mighty since they stopped playing in Texas several times per year.

Where do you think Oklahoma gets most of its best players? I will give you three guesses but the first two don't count.

Do people really think the Sooners are ignorant to that reality? I mean that's a really crazy theory if you stop and think about it. Oklahoma well knows that it has a sweetheart set up right now. They get a great contract and still get to play in the same region they've have always played in and made their name.

However, Oklahoma also understands that as long as the Longhorn Network is around it will always be a major impediment for the growth and/or long-term stability of that league.

I think what Oklahoma is probably trying to do is to create some sort of leverage because right now they have none and that is not a good place to be - especially when dealing with such a bold/arrogant entity like Texas.

I sincerely doubt that Oklahoma really wants to expand. However, they probably do want a conference network. As long as LHN is around, that can't really happen. I am guessing that the network Oklahoma was discussing probably did not work out numbers wise. It is almost impossible for one school to fill 24 hours of semi-decent programming. Hell, I don't think these full conference networks are worth watching and are mostly painfully dull studio shows and/or a bunch of whogivesashit games from the past.

"Honey, don't forget to record the 2008 Indiana/Purdue game. You remember that one: we won, 23–6 thanks to four turnovers by their quarterback. I can't wait to relive that glorious Saturday triumph."

I mean let's be real for a second. The people on this board are the fanatics' fanatics. We are is devoted to CFB as it gets. And yet even I would not take the time to watch my favorite team (Pitt) meaningless September 2012 win over some other team.

I am positive I can find something more interesting to watch or something around the house that needs to get done rather than to bask in the glory of the Panthers' 35-17 win over Virginia Tech en route to another roughly .500 season.

Well, if even a lunatic like me is not watching it, then who is? I think it's all snake oil, I truly do.

I suspect that all of these outward signs of dissatisfaction are just an attempt to force Texas back to the negotiating table. I'm sure the patch goes something like this:

---
Look, we have really enjoyed our relationship with you over the years. However, this Longhorn Network is hanging around our necks like an albatross. As long as it exists, a conference network for the rest of the Big 12 cannot exist and that is a major problem.

Every other 'power five' league either has a conference network or is in the stages of developing one. We cannot afford to permanently fall behind the competition on that front because it is money we will never be able to make it back.

That leaves us with three alternatives:

1.) We can add more teams – preferably from larger television markets – which would afford us the opportunity to make a conference network outside of LHN. That could be through a 2-team, 4-team or 6-team expansion.

2.) You can rebrand LHN - which, let's face it, is not really working anyway – and turn it into B12N (That is our strong preference on nearly every front).

3.) If the first two options are non-starters, perhaps we can start putting feelers out to other leagues to gauge their interest. We are the University of Oklahoma after all and I'm sure we are an attractive partner for each of the four remaining power leagues.

---

That is honestly what I think is going on here as it makes the most sense. Frankly, I am not sure how is going to turn out but I do see option number three as being the least likely scenario as it would require Oklahoma to walk away not only from Texas but really it's own history and traditions.

That is not easy to do – especially for program which prides itself on its history and traditions.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2015 10:02 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
08-02-2015 09:46 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 09:46 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  ...I would not take the time to watch my favorite team (Pitt) meaningless September 2012 win over some other team.

I am positive I can find something more interesting to watch or something around the house that needs to get done rather than to bask in the glory of the Panthers' 35-17 win over Virginia Tech en route to another roughly .500 season.

just had to bring that up, didn't you?
08-02-2015 10:15 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
I doubt the Big 12 has enough markets to warrant a network even if Texas were included.
08-03-2015 01:41 AM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 08:39 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 07:35 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 11:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 10:36 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, do tell, why is the Big Ten overrated?

Because too many people don't know the difference between QUANTITY and QUALITY. They think that just because 100,000 people attend Big Ten home games that means they MUST be good.

Ohio State is good. Michigan State is pretty good too.

The laws of physics are completely different north of the Ohio River. Please be patient, as we are easily confused.

Thank you for your honesty, Blue!

H1n1 is a clown show.

But you're better than turning this into some garbage north/south discussion.
08-03-2015 02:12 AM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-03-2015 02:12 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 08:39 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 07:35 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 11:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 10:36 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Oh, do tell, why is the Big Ten overrated?

Because too many people don't know the difference between QUANTITY and QUALITY. They think that just because 100,000 people attend Big Ten home games that means they MUST be good.

Ohio State is good. Michigan State is pretty good too.

The laws of physics are completely different north of the Ohio River. Please be patient, as we are easily confused.

Thank you for your honesty, Blue!

H1n1 is a clown show.

But you're better than turning this into some garbage north/south discussion.

This coming from the person that puts "YouAreButtHurt" in his profile. Project much?
08-03-2015 07:17 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Oklahoma Wants Out of Big 12- Frank the Tank source
(08-02-2015 09:46 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I sincerely doubt that Oklahoma really wants to expand. However, they probably do want a conference network. As long as LHN is around, that can't really happen. I am guessing that the network Oklahoma was discussing probably did not work out numbers wise. It is almost impossible for one school to fill 24 hours of semi-decent programming. Hell, I don't think these full conference networks are worth watching and are mostly painfully dull studio shows and/or a bunch of whogivesashit games from the past.

Doctor, you make a really good point here that is often overlooked, and which I believe has the potential to dramatically alter sports programming in the future.

If every conference has a network, at some point the quality of the programming becomes so diluted that nobody is going to make as much money as the BTN and SECN are now making just because they were the first to market. To me what makes the most sense in the long run is an entirely new paradigm.

The SEC, by virtue of its geography, has close relationships with both the ACC and the B12, and shares many of the same markets. But if combined into a single network, their footprint would cover more than 1/2 of the entire US population, and the part of it most avidly devoted to all things football. Right now, each of those conferences negotiate media contracts separately, and have their games spread between ESPN and Fox and their OTA affiliates, ABC and CBS.

Those media outlets in turn negotiate carriage fees with companies like Time Warner Cable, who then charge a monthly fee to the ultimate consumer - us. I believe that, if those three conferences (or even the entire P5) were to join forces, it would make sense to cut out the middle men like ESPN and Fox Sports. Sell the product directly to whatever cable or satellite companies will carry your channels. Let ESPN and Fox compete for the G5 conferences if they want to stay in the game.

With 39 (or maybe even 65) major universities providing content in all sports, the quality of the programming would be far superior to anything the individual conference networks now have. And even after deducting production costs, I believe individual school payouts would dwarf what we see today. And the P5 schools would not run the risk of being locked into what could soon become obsolete distribution models and technologies.
08-03-2015 09:46 AM
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