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How Republicans can win (some) black votes
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QuestionSocratic Offline
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How Republicans can win (some) black votes
Vouchers.

NC Court allows vouchers

Quote:That it was a 4-3 decision, with the court’s four Republicans ruling in the majority and the three Democrats dissenting,

Dems are owned by the teacher union thugs. As soon as blacks realize that Dems are not concerned about them getting a quality education, maybe they'll start to vote for the Repubs.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2015 06:50 AM by QuestionSocratic.)
07-27-2015 06:50 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 06:50 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Vouchers.

NC Court allows vouchers

Quote:That it was a 4-3 decision, with the court’s four Republicans ruling in the majority and the three Democrats dissenting,

Dems are owned by the teacher union thugs. As soon as blacks realize that Dems are not concerned about them getting a quality education, maybe they'll start to vote for the Repubs.

In theory, that should work. In practice, the expectation is that the schools are failing become the district doesn't have enough money and that deficit is the GOP's fault.
07-27-2015 07:32 AM
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firmbizzle Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 06:50 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Vouchers.

NC Court allows vouchers

Quote:That it was a 4-3 decision, with the court’s four Republicans ruling in the majority and the three Democrats dissenting,

Dems are owned by the teacher union thugs. As soon as blacks realize that Dems are not concerned about them getting a quality education, maybe they'll start to vote for the Repubs.

There is that t-word again.
07-27-2015 08:20 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
Even one at that most naive and optimistic would have to say vouchers "work" for less than 10 percent of the population at the expense of the majority of the student population. You are siphoning off critical funds from public schools, but a better education is not the objective here. It's right there in Socratic's paragraph. Destroy unions and play politics with education. In my state they are doing all they can to keep the charter schools actual academic results in the dark. If they were the panacea some predict why would they do that?

Other than these dubious vouchers, can you name a significant GOP effort to improve education at the urban level?
07-27-2015 08:35 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
From the NC article.

Risky voucher schemes like the current law will not require schools to have qualified teachers or a standard curriculum, and allow publicly funded private schools to discriminate against students on the basis of income, disability or religion. Schools that receive vouchers have no accountability for student learning and achievement.

How could ANYONE who actually cares about educating kids be for this? It boggles the mind.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politic...rylink=cpy
07-27-2015 08:41 AM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
“Free public education historically has been, and today remains, vital to American life."

There's that word "free" again.

It doesn't mean what they think it means.
07-27-2015 08:45 AM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 08:41 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  From the NC article.

Risky voucher schemes like the current law will not require schools to have qualified teachers or a standard curriculum, and allow publicly funded private schools to discriminate against students on the basis of income, disability or religion. Schools that receive vouchers have no accountability for student learning and achievement.

How could ANYONE who actually cares about educating kids be for this? It boggles the mind.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politic...rylink=cpy

Mach, that was a quote from some liberal activist group.

"In this case plaintiffs challenge the Opportunity Scholarship Program, which allows a small number of students in lower-income families to receive scholarships from the State to attend private school. According to the most recent figures published by the Department of Public Instruction, a large percentage of economically disadvantaged students in North Carolina are not grade level proficient with respect to the subjects tested on the State’s end-of-year assessments."

The liberal approach to educating the inner cities is NOT working. It is time to try something else.

Although personally I think it's all in vain.....education in the inner cities will not improve until the family structure improves. You cannot send children into the public school system at ground zero and expect the state to perform miracles.
07-27-2015 08:48 AM
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QuestionSocratic Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
I thought I was being clear in the title. It's all about perception .

What is clear is that some blacks believe that the public schools are failing their children. That's why the charter schools and voucher programs are always oversubscribed. That's why so many people protested in DC when the Dems in Congress cut the DC program.

So I believe it is fair to say that some black parents want vouchers. And it's pretty clear that the Democrats are never going to support vouchers. So by championing vouchers, Republicans could bleed off a few black votes.

Now let's talk about costs. In the Buffalo Public School system, almost $18,000 is spent per pupil. The system graduates about 50% and their at grade reading and math achievement levels are at 12% and 13%, respectively.

So if a voucher provides $4500, isn't that the best deal the school system can get by saving over $13,000?
07-27-2015 09:05 AM
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QuestionSocratic Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
Quote:Although personally I think it's all in vain.....education in the inner cities will not improve until the family structure improves. You cannot send children into the public school system at ground zero and expect the state to perform miracles.

Your point is valid but the parents who seek out vouchers and charters, typically provide a sound structure. Its these parents who "give a damn" who want the vouchers.
07-27-2015 09:08 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
This is a state issue. I don't support the federal government imposing educational program on the states, even if I agree with it on principle.
07-27-2015 09:29 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 08:35 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Even one at that most naive and optimistic would have to say vouchers "work" for less than 10 percent of the population at the expense of the majority of the student population. You are siphoning off critical funds from public schools, but a better education is not the objective here. It's right there in Socratic's paragraph. Destroy unions and play politics with education. In my state they are doing all they can to keep the charter schools actual academic results in the dark. If they were the panacea some predict why would they do that?

Other than these dubious vouchers, can you name a significant GOP effort to improve education at the urban level?

How will more money help failing schools Mach?
07-27-2015 09:31 AM
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Post: #12
RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 09:31 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:35 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Even one at that most naive and optimistic would have to say vouchers "work" for less than 10 percent of the population at the expense of the majority of the student population. You are siphoning off critical funds from public schools, but a better education is not the objective here. It's right there in Socratic's paragraph. Destroy unions and play politics with education. In my state they are doing all they can to keep the charter schools actual academic results in the dark. If they were the panacea some predict why would they do that?

Other than these dubious vouchers, can you name a significant GOP effort to improve education at the urban level?

How will more money help failing schools Mach?

I could be wrong but I don't think he's proposing more money, he's just saying they shouldn't get less money, which they probably would if funds are diverted to these charter schools.
07-27-2015 09:41 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
I think we have to start with our main objective and be honest with each other. I don't think you can improve schools by taking money from them. without a doubt we have a healthy contingent that would love to do away with public schools. I also believe this whole private school movement is an end around of Brown vs. The Board of Ed.
07-27-2015 09:53 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 09:41 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 09:31 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:35 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Even one at that most naive and optimistic would have to say vouchers "work" for less than 10 percent of the population at the expense of the majority of the student population. You are siphoning off critical funds from public schools, but a better education is not the objective here. It's right there in Socratic's paragraph. Destroy unions and play politics with education. In my state they are doing all they can to keep the charter schools actual academic results in the dark. If they were the panacea some predict why would they do that?

Other than these dubious vouchers, can you name a significant GOP effort to improve education at the urban level?

How will more money help failing schools Mach?

I could be wrong but I don't think he's proposing more money, he's just saying they shouldn't get less money, which they probably would if funds are diverted to these charter schools.

Conceded. My issue is the fact that despite the money, these schools have failed the students. Now, I'm not someone who put the blame on the schools that have basically become pre-detention centers. But if districts are going to enforce neighborhood zoning, those students and parents who understand the value of education should have an alternative to their current situation.
07-27-2015 09:55 AM
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 09:41 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 09:31 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:35 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Even one at that most naive and optimistic would have to say vouchers "work" for less than 10 percent of the population at the expense of the majority of the student population. You are siphoning off critical funds from public schools, but a better education is not the objective here. It's right there in Socratic's paragraph. Destroy unions and play politics with education. In my state they are doing all they can to keep the charter schools actual academic results in the dark. If they were the panacea some predict why would they do that?

Other than these dubious vouchers, can you name a significant GOP effort to improve education at the urban level?

How will more money help failing schools Mach?

I could be wrong but I don't think he's proposing more money, he's just saying they shouldn't get less money, which they probably would if funds are diverted to these charter schools.

The public schools act like entitled brats with regard to the dollars each child brings in. They aren't guaranteed that money and the money is a per child expenditure and should follow that child where ever they enroll as long as it is a certified school. If a school is educating fewer kids due to losing kids to vouchers that should equal lower costs for that school.

And vouchers do work. One of my son's best friends via a voucher got to attend the best all boys private high school in our city. He was an inner city AA young man, raised by a single mom but she knew the value of an education and wanted him to stay away from trouble so she worked through the system to get a voucher to send him. He is now a college graduate. Vouchers do work but aren't a magic pill as they can't make parents care but if the parents do care can give kids access to better academic institutions.
07-27-2015 09:56 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 08:48 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:41 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  From the NC article.

Risky voucher schemes like the current law will not require schools to have qualified teachers or a standard curriculum, and allow publicly funded private schools to discriminate against students on the basis of income, disability or religion. Schools that receive vouchers have no accountability for student learning and achievement.

How could ANYONE who actually cares about educating kids be for this? It boggles the mind.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politic...rylink=cpy

Mach, that was a quote from some liberal activist group.

"In this case plaintiffs challenge the Opportunity Scholarship Program, which allows a small number of students in lower-income families to receive scholarships from the State to attend private school. According to the most recent figures published by the Department of Public Instruction, a large percentage of economically disadvantaged students in North Carolina are not grade level proficient with respect to the subjects tested on the State’s end-of-year assessments."

The liberal approach to educating the inner cities is NOT working. It is time to try something else.

Although personally I think it's all in vain.....education in the inner cities will not improve until the family structure improves. You cannot send children into the public school system at ground zero and expect the state to perform miracles.
And yet the Republicans keep touting how great it is for Americans to have to work 3 jobs, how we don't work enough hours and we are paying our workers too much. I can see how they are considered the "family values" party. 03-lmfao
07-27-2015 09:58 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 09:53 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I think we have to start with our main objective and be honest with each other. I don't think you can improve schools by taking money from them. without a doubt we have a healthy contingent that would love to do away with public schools. I also believe this whole private school movement is an end around of Brown vs. The Board of Ed.

I don't want to do away with public schools. If parents and students could freely pick which schools in the district they could go to then charter schools wouldn't be necessary. As that rule will never change for obvious reasons, charter schools offer a practical alternative.
07-27-2015 10:05 AM
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 09:58 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:48 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:41 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  From the NC article.

Risky voucher schemes like the current law will not require schools to have qualified teachers or a standard curriculum, and allow publicly funded private schools to discriminate against students on the basis of income, disability or religion. Schools that receive vouchers have no accountability for student learning and achievement.

How could ANYONE who actually cares about educating kids be for this? It boggles the mind.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politic...rylink=cpy

Mach, that was a quote from some liberal activist group.

"In this case plaintiffs challenge the Opportunity Scholarship Program, which allows a small number of students in lower-income families to receive scholarships from the State to attend private school. According to the most recent figures published by the Department of Public Instruction, a large percentage of economically disadvantaged students in North Carolina are not grade level proficient with respect to the subjects tested on the State’s end-of-year assessments."

The liberal approach to educating the inner cities is NOT working. It is time to try something else.

Although personally I think it's all in vain.....education in the inner cities will not improve until the family structure improves. You cannot send children into the public school system at ground zero and expect the state to perform miracles.
And yet the Republicans keep touting how great it is for Americans to have to work 3 jobs, how we don't work enough hours and we are paying our workers too much. I can see how they are considered the "family values" party. 03-lmfao

WTF are you even talking about?
07-27-2015 10:08 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 09:56 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 09:41 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 09:31 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:35 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Even one at that most naive and optimistic would have to say vouchers "work" for less than 10 percent of the population at the expense of the majority of the student population. You are siphoning off critical funds from public schools, but a better education is not the objective here. It's right there in Socratic's paragraph. Destroy unions and play politics with education. In my state they are doing all they can to keep the charter schools actual academic results in the dark. If they were the panacea some predict why would they do that?

Other than these dubious vouchers, can you name a significant GOP effort to improve education at the urban level?

How will more money help failing schools Mach?

I could be wrong but I don't think he's proposing more money, he's just saying they shouldn't get less money, which they probably would if funds are diverted to these charter schools.

The public schools act like entitled brats with regard to the dollars each child brings in. They aren't guaranteed that money and the money is a per child expenditure and should follow that child where ever they enroll as long as it is a certified school. If a school is educating fewer kids due to losing kids to vouchers that should equal lower costs for that school.

And vouchers do work. One of my son's best friends via a voucher got to attend the best all boys private high school in our city. He was an inner city AA young man, raised by a single mom but she knew the value of an education and wanted him to stay away from trouble so she worked through the system to get a voucher to send him. He is now a college graduate. Vouchers do work but aren't a magic pill as they can't make parents care but if the parents do care can give kids access to better academic institutions.
03-confused The fixed costs are still there. Not sure that it would cut much if any costs.
07-27-2015 10:09 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: How Republicans can win (some) black votes
(07-27-2015 10:08 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 09:58 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:48 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  
(07-27-2015 08:41 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  From the NC article.

Risky voucher schemes like the current law will not require schools to have qualified teachers or a standard curriculum, and allow publicly funded private schools to discriminate against students on the basis of income, disability or religion. Schools that receive vouchers have no accountability for student learning and achievement.

How could ANYONE who actually cares about educating kids be for this? It boggles the mind.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politic...rylink=cpy

Mach, that was a quote from some liberal activist group.

"In this case plaintiffs challenge the Opportunity Scholarship Program, which allows a small number of students in lower-income families to receive scholarships from the State to attend private school. According to the most recent figures published by the Department of Public Instruction, a large percentage of economically disadvantaged students in North Carolina are not grade level proficient with respect to the subjects tested on the State’s end-of-year assessments."

The liberal approach to educating the inner cities is NOT working. It is time to try something else.

Although personally I think it's all in vain.....education in the inner cities will not improve until the family structure improves. You cannot send children into the public school system at ground zero and expect the state to perform miracles.
And yet the Republicans keep touting how great it is for Americans to have to work 3 jobs, how we don't work enough hours and we are paying our workers too much. I can see how they are considered the "family values" party. 03-lmfao

WTF are you even talking about?
I am commenting on his "until the family structure improves". The Republican policies hurt the family structure.
07-27-2015 10:15 AM
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