How many calls does it take for Mexico to win a Gold Cup?

In other news, the United States still is embarrassingly bad at soccer.

Gotta think Klinsmann's buns are getting a bit warm. After the first USA goal it seemed like it was a given that US would get the next one, and it just never happened.

Not Klinsmann's fault, but it's a joke that the USA still hasn't had that one breakout mega star American soccer player.

The U.S isn't where it should be, true. However, we are no where close to embarrassing. We've made it commonplace to proceed beyond our group in the world cup. That would put us as, theoretically, one of the top 16 nations in the world. Far from embarrassing. That being said, I was very dissapointed in this outing. But I am still confident in the direction this team is headed under Klinnsman. And I would be very, very, very suprised if anyone were to question his job security at this point.

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Our youth system is backwards and the coaching our youth gets is terrible. We have a pay to play system that benefits the rich and upper middle class however it excludes poor and middle class kids. Most of the best players in the world come from the slums or from the middle class. We need to stop emulating the English and instead emulate the South Americans and Continental Europeans. Klinsmann has criticized our pay to play system. College soccer is a huge hindrance to our development. We will never be a power until we change our youth system and emphasize the technical side of the game over athleticism.

Those dang rich and upper middle class kids. You forgot to throw white in there, too to complete the rant.

(07-23-2015 01:06 AM)SW UC Wrote:  Our youth system is backwards and the coaching our youth gets is terrible. We have a pay to play system that benefits the rich and upper middle class however it excludes poor and middle class kids. Most of the best players in the world come from the slums or from the middle class. We need to stop emulating the English and instead emulate the South Americans and Continental Europeans. Klinsmann has criticized our pay to play system. College soccer is a huge hindrance to our development. We will never be a power until we change our youth system and emphasize the technical side of the game over athleticism.

Those statements are blanket statements that don't cover everybody. Several clubs now have "scholarship" type situations where you can do work for the club instead of money, and some clubs even have sponsorship setups for kids that can't afford the full cost. I do agree though that a lot of revamping still needs to be done. It's a bit of a chicken/egg situation though. Better coaches cost more money, and then your right back to only the kids that can afford to pay for better coaching.

College soccer isn't really a hindrance because you don't have to go play it, it's a choice. The players that are good enough go overseas to clubs.

(07-22-2015 10:48 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  How many calls does it take for Mexico to win a Gold Cup?

In other news, the United States still is embarrassingly bad at soccer.

Except that the US finishes towards the top of CONCACAF every time, makes every world cups these days, and regularly gets out of the group stage. US has never gotten itself to a topnotch level, but embarrassingly bad is just an absurd statement.

Not when you consider how many people there are in the country, our huge financial advantage to pour money into developmental programs compared to a bunch of other countries, etc.

Edit: If you don't think the loss to Jamaica was embarrassing, you might want to take it up with a bunch of the commentators that previously played for the national team saying so.

(07-23-2015 01:48 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  Not when you consider how many people there are in the country, our huge financial advantage to pour money into developmental programs compared to a bunch of other countries, etc.

And our best Athletes don't play soccer. That's kind of a big deal. Not going to be the best in the world at everything and hell sometimes money is overrated in these kind of things.

(07-23-2015 01:51 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  And our best Athletes don't play soccer. That's kind of a big deal. Not going to be the best in the world at everything and hell sometimes money is overrated in these kind of things.

Three-fourths of U.S. states are more highly populated by Jamaica. 300+ million more people in all.

There's enough elite athletes that do choose to play soccer that you shouldn't be losing to countries when you hold the prospect and financial advantages.

(07-23-2015 01:51 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 01:48 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  Not when you consider how many people there are in the country, our huge financial advantage to pour money into developmental programs compared to a bunch of other countries, etc.

And our best Athletes don't play soccer. That's kind of a big deal. Not going to be the best in the world at everything and hell sometimes money is overrated in these kind of things.

Money for the developmental programs, maybe. But if MLS players pulled in what NBA/MLB/NFL players did, it would significantly mitigate the selection issue.

(07-23-2015 10:02 AM)bearcatfan1211 Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 01:06 AM)SW UC Wrote:  Our youth system is backwards and the coaching our youth gets is terrible. We have a pay to play system that benefits the rich and upper middle class however it excludes poor and middle class kids. Most of the best players in the world come from the slums or from the middle class. We need to stop emulating the English and instead emulate the South Americans and Continental Europeans. Klinsmann has criticized our pay to play system. College soccer is a huge hindrance to our development. We will never be a power until we change our youth system and emphasize the technical side of the game over athleticism.

Those statements are blanket statements that don't cover everybody. Several clubs now have "scholarship" type situations where you can do work for the club instead of money, and some clubs even have sponsorship setups for kids that can't afford the full cost. I do agree though that a lot of revamping still needs to be done. It's a bit of a chicken/egg situation though. Better coaches cost more money, and then your right back to only the kids that can afford to pay for better coaching.

College soccer isn't really a hindrance because you don't have to go play it, it's a choice. The players that are good enough go overseas to clubs.

Things are starting to change for the better, I was upset last night and I did make some blanket statements. I have volunteered as a youth coach back when I lived in Cincinnati and currently in Albuquerque. I like the new guidelines that US Soccer has developed. MLS Academies are developing which is a good sign for the future. The rest of the world uses the Academy system where clubs develop their own talent, that's what we need to emulate.

It has nothing to do with our best athletes playing different sports. Soccer players are a completely different form of athlete than basketball and football players. You can't have 6'7 players with 250 pounds of muscle running around for 90 minutes. The problem we have lies within our culture. We are new to soccer and have only recently began to take a serious interest in the game. As a result, our youth systems are only now being developed. I mean, the major league in this country isn't even much older than 20 years. Yet, despite the discrepancies we hold with other nations that worship the game, we have held our own. That is far from "embarrassing". It seems rather pretentious to assume the USA should be good at soccer because of high population numbers and domination at sports the rest of the world doesn't care about.

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(07-23-2015 03:38 PM)SW UC Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 10:02 AM)bearcatfan1211 Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 01:06 AM)SW UC Wrote:  Our youth system is backwards and the coaching our youth gets is terrible. We have a pay to play system that benefits the rich and upper middle class however it excludes poor and middle class kids. Most of the best players in the world come from the slums or from the middle class. We need to stop emulating the English and instead emulate the South Americans and Continental Europeans. Klinsmann has criticized our pay to play system. College soccer is a huge hindrance to our development. We will never be a power until we change our youth system and emphasize the technical side of the game over athleticism.

Those statements are blanket statements that don't cover everybody. Several clubs now have "scholarship" type situations where you can do work for the club instead of money, and some clubs even have sponsorship setups for kids that can't afford the full cost. I do agree though that a lot of revamping still needs to be done. It's a bit of a chicken/egg situation though. Better coaches cost more money, and then your right back to only the kids that can afford to pay for better coaching.

College soccer isn't really a hindrance because you don't have to go play it, it's a choice. The players that are good enough go overseas to clubs.

Things are starting to change for the better, I was upset last night and I did make some blanket statements. I have volunteered as a youth coach back when I lived in Cincinnati and currently in Albuquerque. I like the new guidelines that US Soccer has developed. MLS Academies are developing which is a good sign for the future. The rest of the world uses the Academy system where clubs develop their own talent, that's what we need to emulate.

I agree that it is headed in the right direction, its going to be slow though because American's don't like change. A couple issues I think will continue to haunt us:

1. We have way too many soccer clubs, and it's too easy to start a new one. It's the mentality of "you want to cut my son/daughter? Fine we will go start our own team and prove you wrong." We need to lose the "we are getting screwed" mentality and realize that sometimes maybe our kid just isn't good enough yet. I'm a coach/youth director at a decent sized club and love the classic line of "you didn't take our kid because of politics." It's always the go to line for parents, have to put the blame elsewhere.

2. Our clubs need to respect each other a bit more and stop the hatred. Sure there are heated rivalries overseas betweens clubs, but most of the nasty stuff is coming from the fans. the clubs understand that it's about development of players and respect (obviously not all are this way). American concept tends to be "rather than developing the players I have, I'll just try to gobble up all the best players in the area and push these current kids to the side." So instead of trying to develop masses of players, everyone is fighting for the chance to continue developing the 20 best players.