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COA at FIU is $6k
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FIU Panther Fan Offline
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Post: #61
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
I think you guys are saying the same thing. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.


(08-03-2015 10:44 AM)FIUFan Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 09:16 AM)USMSTUD Wrote:  They can apply different rates for different sports. The full COA only applies to athletes in sports that receive full athletic scholarships. Equivalency sports, like baseball, where you have 11.7 scholarships spread out over 35 players will receive a percentage of the full COA.

They can't apply different "rates" per sport. Each baseball scholarship will still be worth an additional $6k in COA funds (6,000 x 11.7 = 70,200). Now of course, if an athlete doesn't receive a full scholarship, he/she will only get their pro-rata share of the $6k.
08-03-2015 10:49 AM
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FIUFan Offline
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Post: #62
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-03-2015 10:49 AM)FIU Panther Fan Wrote:  I think you guys are saying the same thing. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

Yeah, ah no. I learned a long time ago if you use words loosely, they begin to lose their meaning. The COA "rate" per scholardhip is a fixed amount, now how many scholarships you use or in what percentage you assign them may be flexible but the word rate applies to the dollar amount assigned to each full scholarship.
08-03-2015 11:11 AM
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USMSTUD Offline
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Post: #63
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-03-2015 11:11 AM)FIUFan Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 10:49 AM)FIU Panther Fan Wrote:  I think you guys are saying the same thing. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

Yeah, ah no. I learned a long time ago if you use words loosely, they begin to lose their meaning. The COA "rate" per scholardhip is a fixed amount, now how many scholarships you use or in what percentage you assign them may be flexible but the word rate applies to the dollar amount assigned to each full scholarship.

I think everyone knew what I meant even if I didn't word it properly, but you are correct that the COA is a fixed amount per full scholarship. Head count sports like football will receive the full COA. A baseball player getting only a half scholarship would get half of the COA.
08-03-2015 11:18 AM
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Eagle Lurker Offline
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Post: #64
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
One reason I was given for the large range was a comparison of a local student vs. say a student from California. The calculation includes transportation to and from campus in addition to 1 or 2 trips home within the year.
08-03-2015 04:44 PM
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TheFIUtheproud Offline
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RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-02-2015 08:57 PM)banker Wrote:  Was academics a higher priority before you got into all those APR problems?

I love that fans of a school like FIU want to make comments about Marshall taking props. A little ironic really, we take kids who couldn't qualify and graduate them. You take kids that can qualify and can't get them graduated. How high of a priority are academics again?

You Marshall folk are something else. A few things: the post was not directed at Marshall. And the other FIU poster was discussing - I believe - academic spending in general. For example, the school has been putting money into our medical school, additional buildings, academic programs, etc. The vision of FIU is to advance academically as far and as fast as possible. Athletics is a step below in the "spending" category. BUT, FIU has committed to future spending on athletics. Period. For example, there is a vision for a top football stadium built on what we have now.

Second, graduating from FIU is much harder to do than graduating from Marshall. Much like graduating from Rice is more difficult to do than graduating from FIU. See how that works? The fact that Marshall graduates its athletes is meaningless without telling me what classes they are taking and what they are studying. Graduating with a Parks and Recreation degree from any school is simple to do. At least you know that FIU wasn't providing easy classes as can be seen by our past APRs. These kids (mainly basketball players during Thomas' tenure) were not getting it done. They were taking regular classes and FIU professors weren't giving them inflated grades or putting them in fake classes like UNC was doing or others still do.

In other words, any dummy can graduate from Marshall. And the dumbest of the dumbest can play football at Marshall and then graduate from there. Do you really think these kids can graduate from LA. Tech or Rice or FIU? Come on. And as for props, don't get me started.
08-03-2015 05:18 PM
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TheFIUtheproud Offline
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Post: #66
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-02-2015 11:24 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  No criticism of FIU directly.Just saying there will eventually be a change.Nationwide too many of the "privileged" 5 are not happy with schools having an advantage while their COA is limited.Rules "they" made CAN be changed.JMO.

No criticism taken. You are probably right. Football and basketball have always been money sports. And he or she who has the most money gets to make the rules. But, FIU will be fine when it comes to money against the non-privileged 5. We shall see how it shakes out.
08-03-2015 05:22 PM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-03-2015 07:19 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  This whole thing is a mess IMO...What ever happened to college athletes having the luxury of zero student loans in their lifetime?....Would gladly trade my wife's student loans for COA bull crap......So will this COA not be taxed?

Most of these guys can't keep a job due to scheduling. They have school plus d-1 training schedules and homework. A regular student doesn't have that problem with travel, practice, and training. No problem with something in the 6k-10k zone. We are ok with Satan...Saban making $5 million +?
08-03-2015 05:25 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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RE: COA at FIU is $6k
I believe most can have summer jobs / internships.
08-03-2015 05:55 PM
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banker Offline
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RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-02-2015 09:14 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 08:57 PM)banker Wrote:  Was academics a higher priority before you got into all those APR problems?

I love that fans of a school like FIU want to make comments about Marshall taking props. A little ironic really, we take kids who couldn't qualify and graduate them. You take kids that can qualify and can't get them graduated. How high of a priority are academics again?

Just a 50 year old institution, but i assumed APR was about more than graduation. What % of the total props do you graduate?

Well, if you are like most people and belief we take a lot of props, then we graduate enough to have a football APR of 982 versus a national average of 956. Marshall has a 26 point lead over FIU on the 4 year rolling average.
08-03-2015 08:48 PM
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banker Offline
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RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-03-2015 05:18 PM)TheFIUtheproud Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 08:57 PM)banker Wrote:  Was academics a higher priority before you got into all those APR problems?

I love that fans of a school like FIU want to make comments about Marshall taking props. A little ironic really, we take kids who couldn't qualify and graduate them. You take kids that can qualify and can't get them graduated. How high of a priority are academics again?

You Marshall folk are something else. A few things: the post was not directed at Marshall. And the other FIU poster was discussing - I believe - academic spending in general. For example, the school has been putting money into our medical school, additional buildings, academic programs, etc. The vision of FIU is to advance academically as far and as fast as possible. Athletics is a step below in the "spending" category. BUT, FIU has committed to future spending on athletics. Period. For example, there is a vision for a top football stadium built on what we have now.

Second, graduating from FIU is much harder to do than graduating from Marshall. Much like graduating from Rice is more difficult to do than graduating from FIU. See how that works? The fact that Marshall graduates its athletes is meaningless without telling me what classes they are taking and what they are studying. Graduating with a Parks and Recreation degree from any school is simple to do. At least you know that FIU wasn't providing easy classes as can be seen by our past APRs. These kids (mainly basketball players during Thomas' tenure) were not getting it done. They were taking regular classes and FIU professors weren't giving them inflated grades or putting them in fake classes like UNC was doing or others still do.

In other words, any dummy can graduate from Marshall. And the dumbest of the dumbest can play football at Marshall and then graduate from there. Do you really think these kids can graduate from LA. Tech or Rice or FIU? Come on. And as for props, don't get me started.

A lot of unfounded assumptions in that post. That's a little disappointing coming from someone smart enough to graduate from Florida International, an institution of higher learning without peer.

I'll tell you a little secret that most people either don't figure out, or don't want to acknowledge; it doesn't matter where you go to college if you have a non-specialized major. Sure, it's an advantage if you go to Stanford or MIT if you want to be an internet entrepreneur, but for your typical business, accounting, management, biology, engineering, etc. degree you basically have the same type professors teaching the same type material. The only real variation is that some schools, by reputation, attract better students. This makes the school appear better because the kids are more motivated and self challenging. These type people tend to achieve more and the school then gets to take credit for creating these superior contributors.

No one "gets smart" going to college. Intelligence by that point is mostly already formed. The smarter a person is when they reach college, the lesser the impact of their education. College is actually much more beneficial to those that have experienced problems throughout their education to that point. It can help them learn discipline, focus, self drive/motivation, and the importance of defining tasks and working to complete them.

That's the main reason I fully support Marshall taking non-qualifiers, especially those from rough environments that had little to no parental involvement. Those kids that got passed along because the coach and school wanted them to be eligible to play on Friday nights. It's the main reason I give what I give to our athletic scholarship foundation. I've seen a lot of these kids walk across the stage and get their diploma and then go on to be productive members of society, both in Huntington and their home towns. Many are the first in their family to attend college, first to graduate college, and set a positive example not only for their family, but also for the kids coming up through their high school. To me it's much more in keeping with what college should be about, the betterment of ones self and much more noble than many other aspects of college sports.
08-03-2015 09:21 PM
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FIU Panther Fan Offline
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Post: #71
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
Yes, we "belief" that and as has been pointed out before, academic investment referred to the actual university academics and our attempts to not be so irrelevant that we don't even register in most rankings. A position that your institution finds itself in after almost 180 years, but congrats on the higher football APR. A real coup for you.
08-03-2015 09:31 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #72
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
Harvey White, co-founder of Qualcomm
Verna Gibson, first female CEO of a Fortune 500 company
Brad Smith, President and CEO of Intuit
James Smith, President and CEO of Thompson Rueters
Chris Cline and Jim Justice, a couple billionaires in the Forbes 400
John Deaver Drinko, managing partner of BakerHostetler (one of the largest law firms in America).

A few of the Marshall Alumni that managed to make it in spite of their sub par education. Again, where you go to college, and where it's ranked, has no bearing on where you'll end up in life.
08-03-2015 10:55 PM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #73
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-03-2015 10:55 PM)banker Wrote:  Harvey White, co-founder of Qualcomm
Verna Gibson, first female CEO of a Fortune 500 company
Brad Smith, President and CEO of Intuit
James Smith, President and CEO of Thompson Rueters
Chris Cline and Jim Justice, a couple billionaires in the Forbes 400
John Deaver Drinko, managing partner of BakerHostetler (one of the largest law firms in America).

A few of the Marshall Alumni that managed to make it in spite of their sub par education. Again, where you go to college, and where it's ranked, has no bearing on where you'll end up in life.

Nice list. Marshall has been around for 200 years right?
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2015 07:38 AM by FIU4Ever.)
08-04-2015 07:34 AM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-03-2015 08:48 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 09:14 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 08:57 PM)banker Wrote:  Was academics a higher priority before you got into all those APR problems?

I love that fans of a school like FIU want to make comments about Marshall taking props. A little ironic really, we take kids who couldn't qualify and graduate them. You take kids that can qualify and can't get them graduated. How high of a priority are academics again?

Just a 50 year old institution, but i assumed APR was about more than graduation. What % of the total props do you graduate?

Well, if you are like most people and belief we take a lot of props, then we graduate enough to have a football APR of 982 versus a national average of 956. Marshall has a 26 point lead over FIU on the 4 year rolling average.

You have not answered the question I asked. I don't really care if you took only one each year or 100. You mentioned getting non qualifiers and graduating them, I am interested in your success rate. Did you take 5, qualify 4 and graduate 4? Because they don't count towards APR until they qualify, if my understanding is correct.

And let's skip the righteous indignation crap, Marshall uses this as a recruiting tool. You may not have gotten the memo, but Marshall is on board and paying COA this fall, so Marshall will also be "buying" players. Or is paying COA only considered "buying" when Marshall cannot match other schools max?
08-04-2015 07:51 AM
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RaiderDoug Offline
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Post: #75
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
I don't see any way this doesn't degenerate into a free agency free-for-all.

What's sad is that none of this was really necessary. These kids get pell grants, they get financial aid, they get access to internships/summer jobs that regular students would kill for. I knew quite a few athletes in my college days, and I can't think of a single one that was struggling. The NCAA provides funds for emergency travel, clothing stipends, etc.

All this does is put nicer rims on their cars, get them a few more tattoos.

And the whole difference in cost of attendance is silly as well. These kids aren't investing in real estate. McDonald's and Xbox's cost the same in Miami as in Murfreesboro as in Huntington.

All this did was allow the deeper pockets to tilt the playing field against the have nots - under the guise of "student-athlete welfare". Bullchit.
08-04-2015 08:53 AM
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Post: #76
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-03-2015 08:48 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 09:14 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 08:57 PM)banker Wrote:  Was academics a higher priority before you got into all those APR problems?
I love that fans of a school like FIU want to make comments about Marshall taking props. A little ironic really, we take kids who couldn't qualify and graduate them. You take kids that can qualify and can't get them graduated. How high of a priority are academics again?
Just a 50 year old institution, but i assumed APR was about more than graduation. What % of the total props do you graduate?
Well, if you are like most people and belief we take a lot of props, then we graduate enough to have a football APR of 982 versus a national average of 956. Marshall has a 26 point lead over FIU on the 4 year rolling average.

Maybe the FIU course curriculum is more rigorous than Marshall's leading to greater scholastic issues.
08-04-2015 09:01 AM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #77
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-04-2015 08:53 AM)RaiderDoug Wrote:  I don't see any way this doesn't degenerate into a free agency free-for-all.

What's sad is that none of this was really necessary. These kids get pell grants, they get financial aid, they get access to internships/summer jobs that regular students would kill for. I knew quite a few athletes in my college days, and I can't think of a single one that was struggling. The NCAA provides funds for emergency travel, clothing stipends, etc.

All this does is put nicer rims on their cars, get them a few more tattoos.

And the whole difference in cost of attendance is silly as well. These kids aren't investing in real estate. McDonald's and Xbox's cost the same in Miami as in Murfreesboro as in Huntington.

All this did was allow the deeper pockets to tilt the playing field against the have nots - under the guise of "student-athlete welfare". Bullchit.

The really sad thing about all this? No one cared about cost of attendance for the average student but are up in arms about it for student-athletes.

MTSU CoA for students

FIU CoA for students

Using travel and misc. as "living expenses" for MTSU = ~$4k

Using transport and personal as "living expenses" for FIU = ~$5k

Are you suggesting that the max allocated loan for a MTSU student's living expenses be $2k because another school in a smaller town uses $2k? XBox and PS4 cost the same in Statesboro as Murfreesboro, right?

If this formula is used as the basis for student-athlete CoA, why should it be the same? Because we know what they should spend their money on? Because we know what their life circumstances are. 01-wingedeagle

I agree with you that it could degenerate into free agency
Alabama CoA jumps 39%
08-04-2015 10:02 AM
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RaiderDoug Offline
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Post: #78
RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-04-2015 10:02 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  Are you suggesting that the max allocated loan for a MTSU student's living expenses be $2k because another school in a smaller town uses $2k? XBox and PS4 cost the same in Statesboro as Murfreesboro, right?

If this formula is used as the basis for student-athlete CoA, why should it be the same? Because we know what they should spend their money on? Because we know what their life circumstances are. 01-wingedeagle

I agree with you that it could degenerate into free agency
Alabama CoA jumps 39%

It would have been better as a stipend - a flat 2-4k or something like that. Just call it expenses or something like that.

But you can't do that, because the only way it was rammed through was to portray it as helping the poor student athlete who can't afford clothes or to eat more than one meal a day....blah blah blah.

What we're seeing here is just flat out abusing the system.

Are you ready to see the standings pretty much stratify into the different tiers of COA? You probably are, seeing as FIU is on top of the COA list.


(08-04-2015 10:02 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  If this formula is used as the basis for student-athlete CoA, why should it be the same? Because we know what they should spend their money on? Because we know what their life circumstances are. 01-wingedeagle

They already have emergency funds they can tap. They already have pell grants (why someone on full 'ship would get a pell grant, I don't know). They already have clothing stipends.

I've known many athletes - the access they had to money before this far outstripped the regular student and his 20+hour a week job.

I don't buy the whole "life circumstances" require them to get 600 bucks a week from schools.


(08-04-2015 10:02 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  I agree with you that it could degenerate into free agency
Alabama CoA jumps 39%

This is inevitable and already happening.
08-04-2015 10:28 AM
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TheFIUtheproud Offline
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RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-04-2015 08:53 AM)RaiderDoug Wrote:  I don't see any way this doesn't degenerate into a free agency free-for-all.

What's sad is that none of this was really necessary. These kids get pell grants, they get financial aid, they get access to internships/summer jobs that regular students would kill for. I knew quite a few athletes in my college days, and I can't think of a single one that was struggling. The NCAA provides funds for emergency travel, clothing stipends, etc.

All this does is put nicer rims on their cars, get them a few more tattoos.

And the whole difference in cost of attendance is silly as well. These kids aren't investing in real estate. McDonald's and Xbox's cost the same in Miami as in Murfreesboro as in Huntington.

All this did was allow the deeper pockets to tilt the playing field against the have nots - under the guise of "student-athlete welfare". Bullchit.

There has always been a type free agency in college football. What are you talking about? If you don't think that college football has always been big business then you are ignoring the facts. But this is the way of the world. The haves and the have-nots. This is the reason that schools upgrade the facilities and get cooler uniforms. Anything to get an edge. And to the extent that this is a plus for FIU then I am all for it. And yes, I recognize that if the COA was a negative for FIU, I would be saying what you are saying now.
08-04-2015 02:38 PM
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TheFIUtheproud Offline
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RE: COA at FIU is $6k
(08-03-2015 09:21 PM)banker Wrote:  
(08-03-2015 05:18 PM)TheFIUtheproud Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 08:57 PM)banker Wrote:  Was academics a higher priority before you got into all those APR problems?

I love that fans of a school like FIU want to make comments about Marshall taking props. A little ironic really, we take kids who couldn't qualify and graduate them. You take kids that can qualify and can't get them graduated. How high of a priority are academics again?

You Marshall folk are something else. A few things: the post was not directed at Marshall. And the other FIU poster was discussing - I believe - academic spending in general. For example, the school has been putting money into our medical school, additional buildings, academic programs, etc. The vision of FIU is to advance academically as far and as fast as possible. Athletics is a step below in the "spending" category. BUT, FIU has committed to future spending on athletics. Period. For example, there is a vision for a top football stadium built on what we have now.

Second, graduating from FIU is much harder to do than graduating from Marshall. Much like graduating from Rice is more difficult to do than graduating from FIU. See how that works? The fact that Marshall graduates its athletes is meaningless without telling me what classes they are taking and what they are studying. Graduating with a Parks and Recreation degree from any school is simple to do. At least you know that FIU wasn't providing easy classes as can be seen by our past APRs. These kids (mainly basketball players during Thomas' tenure) were not getting it done. They were taking regular classes and FIU professors weren't giving them inflated grades or putting them in fake classes like UNC was doing or others still do.

In other words, any dummy can graduate from Marshall. And the dumbest of the dumbest can play football at Marshall and then graduate from there. Do you really think these kids can graduate from LA. Tech or Rice or FIU? Come on. And as for props, don't get me started.

A lot of unfounded assumptions in that post. That's a little disappointing coming from someone smart enough to graduate from Florida International, an institution of higher learning without peer.

I'll tell you a little secret that most people either don't figure out, or don't want to acknowledge; it doesn't matter where you go to college if you have a non-specialized major. Sure, it's an advantage if you go to Stanford or MIT if you want to be an internet entrepreneur, but for your typical business, accounting, management, biology, engineering, etc. degree you basically have the same type professors teaching the same type material. The only real variation is that some schools, by reputation, attract better students. This makes the school appear better because the kids are more motivated and self challenging. These type people tend to achieve more and the school then gets to take credit for creating these superior contributors.

No one "gets smart" going to college. Intelligence by that point is mostly already formed. The smarter a person is when they reach college, the lesser the impact of their education. College is actually much more beneficial to those that have experienced problems throughout their education to that point. It can help them learn discipline, focus, self drive/motivation, and the importance of defining tasks and working to complete them.

That's the main reason I fully support Marshall taking non-qualifiers, especially those from rough environments that had little to no parental involvement. Those kids that got passed along because the coach and school wanted them to be eligible to play on Friday nights. It's the main reason I give what I give to our athletic scholarship foundation. I've seen a lot of these kids walk across the stage and get their diploma and then go on to be productive members of society, both in Huntington and their home towns. Many are the first in their family to attend college, first to graduate college, and set a positive example not only for their family, but also for the kids coming up through their high school. To me it's much more in keeping with what college should be about, the betterment of ones self and much more noble than many other aspects of college sports.

I don't disagree with the overall premise of your statement. Academic success is not dependent on intelligence. And vice versa. But I will take the Stanford degree over the FIU and Rice one any day of the week. And needless to say, I would take a Rice degree over an FIU degree.

By the way, you Marshall fans are so sensitive about the props. Most fans here do not belittle the fact that Marshall takes props. Most posts have centered around the fact that Marshall has an advantage over the rest of us b/c you take props AND b/c your academic standards are lower than the others. Do you see the difference? Go back to the 100s of posts on this subject and you will see what I mean. By the way, you brought up the negative posting first. Another pet peeve of mine against the Marshall posters here. Many of you guys shoot the first shot but then get upset when fire is returned.
08-04-2015 02:49 PM
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