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Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
(07-19-2015 12:33 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 11:14 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 11:09 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 10:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The economy cratered because the Dems in congress forced banks to make bad loans to minorities.



The zombie lie that won't die.

Now modify the lie part of the sentence and you get a truth: The economy cratered because the Dems in Congress threw a ton of federal money at subprime mortgages, some of which even had a pick-your-rate feature that meant the homeowner could purchase a loan that would never mature.
I suppose there weren't a lot of whites that got the same mortgages? You know damn well there is enough blame to go around including the greedy banker types(they guys you on the right get a hard-on for).

You are right. But the primary goal of congress was to increase home ownership for minorities, whether they could afford the loans or not.

The heavy hand of government distorted the market. Whenever economic laws are tweaked by government to achieve a political purpose, bad stuff happens.
That is not true. Yes, it was designed to increase home ownership for minorities but it was meant for minority families with good enough credit. I was not supposed to go to everyone. The banks did that(loans to those who weren't qualified) because the were making big money doing so.
07-19-2015 09:38 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
(07-19-2015 11:26 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I've always been in favor of Puerto Rico becoming a state. Maybe its time to strong arm them into it.

Yep Two more Democrat Senators and if DC added an additional 2 Democrat Senators for 4 . Not to mention the additional Democrat governors and Democrat Congressmen. A Liberals Wet Dream.03-nutkick03-lmfao
07-20-2015 06:36 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
(07-19-2015 09:38 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 12:33 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 11:14 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 11:09 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 10:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The economy cratered because the Dems in congress forced banks to make bad loans to minorities.



The zombie lie that won't die.

Now modify the lie part of the sentence and you get a truth: The economy cratered because the Dems in Congress threw a ton of federal money at subprime mortgages, some of which even had a pick-your-rate feature that meant the homeowner could purchase a loan that would never mature.
I suppose there weren't a lot of whites that got the same mortgages? You know damn well there is enough blame to go around including the greedy banker types(they guys you on the right get a hard-on for).

You are right. But the primary goal of congress was to increase home ownership for minorities, whether they could afford the loans or not.

The heavy hand of government distorted the market. Whenever economic laws are tweaked by government to achieve a political purpose, bad stuff happens.
That is not true. Yes, it was designed to increase home ownership for minorities but it was meant for minority families with good enough credit. I was not supposed to go to everyone. The banks did that(loans to those who weren't qualified) because the were making big money doing so.

yeah buggy.....funding minorities with good credit was a phenomenal liberating concept...

meaning, if one has good credit, then why does anything other than status quo become necessary? the minority portion is irrelevant...

never mind....I gotta be an idiot trying to point out the basics....

vag
07-20-2015 07:41 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
(07-19-2015 09:38 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 12:33 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 11:14 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 11:09 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 10:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The economy cratered because the Dems in congress forced banks to make bad loans to minorities.



The zombie lie that won't die.

Now modify the lie part of the sentence and you get a truth: The economy cratered because the Dems in Congress threw a ton of federal money at subprime mortgages, some of which even had a pick-your-rate feature that meant the homeowner could purchase a loan that would never mature.
I suppose there weren't a lot of whites that got the same mortgages? You know damn well there is enough blame to go around including the greedy banker types(they guys you on the right get a hard-on for).

You are right. But the primary goal of congress was to increase home ownership for minorities, whether they could afford the loans or not.

The heavy hand of government distorted the market. Whenever economic laws are tweaked by government to achieve a political purpose, bad stuff happens.
That is not true. Yes, it was designed to increase home ownership for minorities but it was meant for minority families with good enough credit. I was not supposed to go to everyone. The banks did that(loans to those who weren't qualified) because the were making big money doing so.

It was designed to increase home ownership among poor and lower middle class minorities. It was targeting home ownership in low price homes. Those groups rarely have both good enough credit and the downpayment. So the government was forcing banks to make bad loans if they wanted to keep their charter, taking either bad credit or creative downpayments or both. It was the government determining business practices when it knew nothing about the market.
07-20-2015 08:10 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
We had a Memphis poster just blow this zombie lie out of the water a couple of years back. I'm pretty certain he took Owl #'s to task on it rather hard. I didn't care for the tone of the conversation but it was a take down none the less. This zombie lie that keeps being repeated here is just that a lie.
07-20-2015 08:16 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
(07-20-2015 07:41 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 09:38 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 12:33 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 11:14 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 11:09 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Now modify the lie part of the sentence and you get a truth: The economy cratered because the Dems in Congress threw a ton of federal money at subprime mortgages, some of which even had a pick-your-rate feature that meant the homeowner could purchase a loan that would never mature.
I suppose there weren't a lot of whites that got the same mortgages? You know damn well there is enough blame to go around including the greedy banker types(they guys you on the right get a hard-on for).

You are right. But the primary goal of congress was to increase home ownership for minorities, whether they could afford the loans or not.

The heavy hand of government distorted the market. Whenever economic laws are tweaked by government to achieve a political purpose, bad stuff happens.
That is not true. Yes, it was designed to increase home ownership for minorities but it was meant for minority families with good enough credit. I was not supposed to go to everyone. The banks did that(loans to those who weren't qualified) because the were making big money doing so.

yeah buggy.....funding minorities with good credit was a phenomenal liberating concept...

meaning, if one has good credit, then why does anything other than status quo become necessary? the minority portion is irrelevant...

never mind....I gotta be an idiot trying to point out the basics....

vag
Gee, I don't know. Could it possibly be that banks refused them loans even though they were qualified? Can you come up with a reason they wouldn't give them a loan?
07-20-2015 12:00 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
(07-20-2015 08:16 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We had a Memphis poster just blow this zombie lie out of the water a couple of years back. I'm pretty certain he took Owl #'s to task on it rather hard. I didn't care for the tone of the conversation but it was a take down none the less. This zombie lie that keeps being repeated here is just that a lie.

It is not a zombie lie, not even a lie at all. Nobody blew it out of the water ever. And I responded to the post that I think you are referencing by pointing out then exactly what actually happened. Since you obviously don't remember that, I will repeat it here.

What was said then, and what is being said now, is that the law, as written, does not require banks to make bad loans, only to make loans to qualified buyers who happened to be minorities. That is factually correct. It is also irrelevant.

It is irrelevant because the law as written is not what actually got enforced. The problem is that the law as written was very generic, and the bank regulators were directed to write regulations to implement the provisions of the law. Those regulations took the wording of the statute and twisted it significantly to require banks to make X number of loans in specific ZIP codes, without regard to whether or not borrowers were qualified.

Banks started out complying with the wording of the law, intensifying their efforts to make loans to qualified minority applicants. That was a good thing, and if things had stayed there, we would have been fine. Enter the regulators to tell the bankers no, that's not good enough. We don't care whether you had enough qualified applicants or not, you have to make X loans in ZIP code 55555 or else we are going to write you up as out of compliance. So bankers started making loans to non-qualified applicants, enough to hit their regulatory quotas. Enter second and third sets of regulators, from the states and other federal agencies, to tell the bankers, you're making loans that don't conform to your underwriting standards, and that's introducing too much risk into the system, so we are going to write you up if you don't tighten your underwriting. At this point the banks were in a no-win situation. My bank clients kept complaining that they wished they could get all the different sets of regulators into the same room at the same time, so they could get some definitive guidance that they could follow. Some of them even jokingly said that they tried to invite them all to lunch without telling each other that they were invited. Enter the Countrywides of the world. They went to the banks and said, don't worry about your X loans in ZIP code 55555, we'll write the mortgages and sell them to you. Only now the problem is that Countrywide has no skin in the game. They're going to sell the mortgage so they don't give a damn about whether it's any good or not. My proposal (based on my work on the 1990 S&L bailout) was a requirement that you couldn't write a mortgage and sell it without keeping at least 25%. There was a bill to do exactly that. Countrywide didn't like that, so they gave Chris Dodd a sweetheart deal on a castle in Ireland in exchange for killing it. Anyway, the banks ended up with a bunch of loans in their portfolios that they knew nothing about, and had no idea what was their quality. When they started checking it out, they realized that they had a bunch of absolute crap. The investment bankers came along and said, "We're in the business of laying off risk. We can package them up and sell them, we can do other derivative instruments to shift the risk, and for a healthy underwriting fee (got to make payments on our Maseratis) we will help you out." The problem was that they based their economics on the assumption that the loans would perform the way they had in the past, and of course these loans couldn't and wouldn't and didn't. Then Fannie and Freddie got into the business of buying loans to try to make things work. Folks like Gorelick and Raines got huge bonuses for expanding their portfolio, then got out and never got put in jail for malfeasance. So you ended up with a system full of bad paper that had been through 3 or 4 hands and nobody knew exactly what they had. Now, in order to make a lot of these loans look better than they were, they had been structured with teaser rates and amortization schedule for the first 3 years or so, then be adjusted to higher interest rates and real amortization schedules. When those adjustments started kicking in, people started defaulting left and right. The impact of those defaults hits everyone. When the family down the street gets their house foreclosed, it sells for maybe 70% of market, and guess what, your house just lost 30% of its value. What else happens is that because of something called "mark to market," when enough borrowers default then the banks have to write down the value of their portfolios. The way that lending regulations work, that basically shuts them down from lending. That is what is called a liquidity crisis. That's the way the system works. That's a summary of about 15 years of mortgage lending in America.

I was there. I was in the meetings with my clients and the regulators. I was at conferences with bankers and their lawyers and accountants where it was a major topic of discussion. It is not a lie. I know it is not a lie because I lived it and experienced it first hand. You did not and neither did the Memphis poster you referenced, so neither you has more than a superficial understanding of what happened. And superficial understandings are usually wrong, as in this case.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2015 01:02 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-20-2015 12:48 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
Owl #'s 03-lmfao When you have to write a novel to back up your thoughts on a mb, you know you have lost.
07-20-2015 12:53 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
(07-20-2015 12:53 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Owl #'s 03-lmfao When you have to write a novel to back up your thoughts on a mb, you know you have lost.

It's not a novel, it's a detailed factual account of what actually happened. As usual, you don't have a clue.
07-20-2015 12:54 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
By the way, when all this started happening, my recommendation to my clients was that they get the hell out of the mortgage lending business. One of those clients was Washington Mutual. They didn't take it very well. They really thought the mortgage lending space was going to be their niche. Anybody remember how that turned out for them?
07-20-2015 12:59 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
(07-19-2015 12:50 AM)Kronke Wrote:  
(07-19-2015 12:15 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is the nut job that said gold was going to 50,000.

$5,000, and just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean he's wrong. His theory is sound.

I love watching these hacks attack him. As if they have a clue, and aren't just throwing darts. LOL at Mr. Red Tie's rustled jimmies. If I were Schiff, I would have came right back and asked them what the Dow will be 2 years from now, so I could laugh in their face when they are inevitably wrong.

Also, LOL at 10:10 at the idiot COMMENTATOR. "As I told so and so, and I stand by this, if you sat out of the market at this time, you lost money". She is providing commentary on PAST EVENTS at the expense of Schiff's actual forecasts. Pathetic and intellectually dishonest.



A prediction like that is meaningless unless it says when we're supposed to hit 5,000. Even approximately. I remember seeing a book from 10 or 20 years ago about how the Dow was going to hit 30,000. It still might. At some point. Maybe.
07-20-2015 01:06 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
Gold makes sense if you think the economy is going to crater, particularly an inflation-driven cratering. I had a lot of gold at one time and I did damn well with it. Held it a bit too long, and lost a little of my profit. Got out in time to escape the big loss in value. Now I'm starting to get back in a little. Still not in as far as I once was, but I think the chance of a major crisis justifies taking on some gold.
07-20-2015 01:29 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Peter Schiff on the US, Greece, EU, and Puerto Rico
This is the thing that I don't understand about gold bugs: if the country crashes, it's unlikely that gold will be the medium of exchange because it lacks real value. Food, clothing, gas, guns, bullets, sex, and other currency are all for more probable options that gold in a barter system.

And those that believe that gold is a good hedge against inflation need only look back at the history of the gold standard to see the numerous economic busts that occurred.
07-20-2015 05:18 PM
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