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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What happens If....
If Texas wouldn't go west with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech then why would they go with Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Tech?
07-24-2015 10:06 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What happens If....
(07-24-2015 10:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If Texas wouldn't go west with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech then why would they go with Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Tech?
Because North Carolina said no........., again.
07-24-2015 10:36 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #43
RE: What happens If....
(07-24-2015 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 10:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If Texas wouldn't go west with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech then why would they go with Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Tech?
Because North Carolina said no........., again.

Nah, then Texas will just wait.
07-24-2015 11:17 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #44
What happens If....
Because NC State & VT don't get a say in what conference they're a member of, they follow Chapel Hill command. Come on H1 don't you realize that we all follow the SEC commands, including Chapel Hill, ESPN & Fox.
07-25-2015 10:40 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #45
RE: What happens If....
(07-24-2015 07:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 07:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Show me the divisional situation JR.
The SEC:

Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas A&M

Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky

N.C. State, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Issues I see with those pods:
1. Alabama would lose its yearly game against Tennessee or Auburn if an eight game conference schedule was maintained.
2. To fix problem one, Alabama would need to be in the same pod as either Auburn or Tenner. Pretty sure the TV networks don't want the Iron Bowl to turn into a back-to-back series with one game in the state of Alabama followed by an Atlanta edition.

If I were to rearrange those pods:
Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, NC State/VT

Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee


I still think VT would be easier to pry from the ACC as you have indicated that UNC would like to keep its voting block in order. UNC would have greater control over NC State's decisions rather than VT's IMHO.
07-26-2015 07:45 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What happens If....
(07-26-2015 07:45 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 07:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 07:16 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Show me the divisional situation JR.
The SEC:

Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas A&M

Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky

N.C. State, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Issues I see with those pods:
1. Alabama would lose its yearly game against Tennessee or Auburn if an eight game conference schedule was maintained.
2. To fix problem one, Alabama would need to be in the same pod as either Auburn or Tenner. Pretty sure the TV networks don't want the Iron Bowl to turn into a back-to-back series with one game in the state of Alabama followed by an Atlanta edition.

If I were to rearrange those pods:
Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, NC State/VT

Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee


I still think VT would be easier to pry from the ACC as you have indicated that UNC would like to keep its voting block in order. UNC would have greater control over NC State's decisions rather than VT's IMHO.

We would almost certainly use expansion to move to at least 9 conference games. It may make the point moot. You play the three in your division, one permanent rival from each of the other three, and rotate the last 9.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2015 09:15 PM by JRsec.)
07-26-2015 08:05 PM
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CintiFan Offline
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Post: #47
RE: What happens If....
(07-24-2015 11:17 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 10:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If Texas wouldn't go west with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech then why would they go with Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Tech?
Because North Carolina said no........., again.

Nah, then Texas will just wait.

Something like this might be more appealing to Texas.

PAC goes to 18 (3 divisions of 6) by adding Texas, Tech, OU, OSU, KU and ISU as the 'Plains' division. Texas plays 9 conference games, 5 against it's former Big 12 opponents and the other 4 against the 12 current PAC teams, which cuts down significantly on travel issues but still lets them play the entire conference in a 3 year cycle. Texas and OU get to maintain their traditional rivalries and the PAC picks up two AAU schools in KU and ISU.
07-27-2015 09:14 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #48
RE: What happens If....
Regarding #1&2 "what ifs?"

I'm going to throw in Fox getting all the B1G tier 1 and also getting a partnership with the Pac16 Network.

The SEC gets Oklahoma and WVU to help solidify its border. Now at 16
The B1G adds Kansas and Boston College. Now at 16
The PAC 16 adds Oklahoma State, K State, Iowa St and Texas Tech. Now at 16
B1G and PAC drop to 8 game schedule but add scheduling agreement that was dropped before and are intertwined through the former Big 8.

The ACC gets Texas as a partial and adds TCU and Cincinnati and Baylor.
The ACC gets their Network.
07-31-2015 01:50 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #49
RE: What happens If....
(07-27-2015 09:14 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 11:17 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 10:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 10:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If Texas wouldn't go west with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech then why would they go with Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Tech?
Because North Carolina said no........., again.

Nah, then Texas will just wait.

Something like this might be more appealing to Texas.

PAC goes to 18 (3 divisions of 6) by adding Texas, Tech, OU, OSU, KU and ISU as the 'Plains' division. Texas plays 9 conference games, 5 against it's former Big 12 opponents and the other 4 against the 12 current PAC teams, which cuts down significantly on travel issues but still lets them play the entire conference in a 3 year cycle. Texas and OU get to maintain their traditional rivalries and the PAC picks up two AAU schools in KU and ISU.

If the network's goals were balance between regions then what you suggest would be a big move in that direction. If fact I would say an 8 team move would be even better. I.S.U., KU, K.S.U., OU, O.S.U., UT, TTU, and T.C.U. would give the PAC 20 schools and 4 fairly nice divisions of 5. Then the Big 10 and SEC take six each from the ACC to consolidate their regional footprints and share the borders and now you have 60 competitive schools in three conferences with one wildcard for the playoffs. That wildcard is important because it helps conferences that are particularly deep on any given year.

Now I don't think this is going to happen, but it would bring the best semblance of balance to the conferences.
07-31-2015 05:02 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #50
RE: What happens If....
(07-31-2015 01:50 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Regarding #1&2 "what ifs?"

I'm going to throw in Fox getting all the B1G tier 1 and also getting a partnership with the Pac16 Network.

The SEC gets Oklahoma and WVU to help solidify its border. Now at 16
The B1G adds Kansas and Boston College. Now at 16
The PAC 16 adds Oklahoma State, K State, Iowa St and Texas Tech. Now at 16
B1G and PAC drop to 8 game schedule but add scheduling agreement that was dropped before and are intertwined through the former Big 8.

The ACC gets Texas as a partial and adds TCU and Cincinnati and Baylor.
The ACC gets their Network.

You know Dasville there is a chance that if ESPN abandons desires for the Big 10 and what you say transpires that none of the top brands from the Big 12 go to either the PAC or the Big 10.

ESPN through the dissolution of the Big 12 cuts half of its overhead in one P5 conference. Then if Texas joins the ACC in full (as long as the Irish do the same which is the impetus for Texas all in) then Oklahoma and Kansas go to the SEC, ESPN will have picked up the top three brands from the Big 12 at the cost of 3 schools. I don't think they would care what happened after that. They still would have the best football and hoops.

The ACC and SEC would partner in the Sugar Bowl and possibly in the Orange Bowl. Big 12 bowl tie ins would be scarfed up. Now consider if the ACC then went to 18 with West Virginia and Connecticut.

Where would the Big 10 get anything they wanted? I mean they would be stuck chewing on Maryland and Rutgers for years to come. IMO the best thing that could happen for the Big 10 would be for ESPN and FOX to cooperate in the dissolution of the Big 12. If it goes to an ESPN versus FOX in a hostile move Oklahoma follows Texas and Texas is roped into ESPN until 2031. With OU and UT in a ESPN family I don't think it would take much for Kansas to do the same. Now if there is cooperation the Big 10 gets Kansas at least.
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2015 05:19 PM by JRsec.)
07-31-2015 05:16 PM
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CintiFan Offline
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Post: #51
RE: What happens If....
JR, I may be going a bit off topic but if balance is what is desired, I have another alignment arrangement for the board to consider.

The end result looks like this, and I'll explain how we get there:

The ACC adds Texas, Baylor, ND as full-time, UConn, Cincinnati and Texas Tech - and lets VT and NC State leave (18 teams)
The SEC adds NC State and West Virginia (16 teams)
The B1G adds Virginia Tech, Kansas, Oklahoma and Iowa State (18 teams)
The PAC stays pat, or expands if it desires (12-16 teams)

Texas makes the first move, going to the ACC and taking Baylor (or Tech if you prefer). The Big 12 is toast at that point and all other Big 12 teams scramble for the exits, Kansas, Oklahoma and Iowa State approach the B1G, and all of the Big 12 schools, except Kansas, approach the SEC.

ESPN and Fox wind up brokering a solution to place as many teams as possible and their solution involves having the ACC release Virginia Tech and NC State. ESPN and the ACC are willing to do so because neither are necessary to get full carriage for an ACCn in their states, UVA in Virginia and UNC/Duke in North Carolina assure full carriage on cable. Dropping two teams will enable the ACC to pick up teams in other states and areas, boosting coverage (and profitability) of an ACCn.

Kansas and Oklahoma decide to go B1G. The networks convince the B1G to add Iowa St, even though the B1G is very much opposed to doubling up in Iowa, by making VT available as Iowa St's partner in joining. VT is not AAU, but they are a top notch engineering school, have a large alumni base and otherwise fit the B1G profile. The B1G agrees to add all 4 and go to a 6 team, three division format.

The SEC is not happy that Oklahoma chose the B1G, but the networks offer NC State as a choice prize. It gets the SEC into North Carolina, a state the SEC covets, and prevents any further expansion south by the B1G. In addition, the SEC gets its choice of any other Big 12 school to add as its 16th member. The SEC considers Tech (or Baylor), TCU, OSU and WVU and chooses WVU because it gives them somewhat of a presence in Virginia and Eastern Ohio, and they don't feel the need to bolster the SEC presence in Texas.

With the B1G and SEC full of teams, and future poaching of the ACC unlikely, the ACC twists ND's arm to join full-time. ND knows the B1G, SEC and PAC will not let it be a partial member. ND doesn't want the PAC (travel and timezone issues) or the SEC (not a cultural fit). Between the B1G (and the history of conflict/occasional bad blood with ND) and the ACC (which provides the east coast exposure ND wants), ND chooses to join the ACC.

At that point, the ACC is at 15 teams after all the additions and deletions. ESPN whispers in the ACC's ear that an NYC presence would be most attractive, so the ACC adds UConn. The football schools, FSU and Clemson, are OK with that, because they now have Texas and, in a P4 structure where the playoffs almost certainly consist of conference champions, the strength of the conference is less important. To give the network an even broader reach, the ACC adds Cincinnati (which ND likes because it recruits Cincinnati heavily) and to provide conference teams with more recruiting exposure in Texas, the ACC adds Texas Tech (or Baylor if Tech came along with Texas initially).

The result is 4 relatively balanced conferences, with the geographic scope that will support conference networks. With the ACC, SEC and B1G at 16 or 18, the conferences adopt conference semi-final games, and the CFP is essentially expanded to 14 teams with the semi-final and final conference championships being de-facto playoff games.
08-01-2015 01:13 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #52
What happens If....
CF this is a plausible scenario. It would come down to IF NC State & VT wanted to move & I would hope that the ACC, in this situation, would take Okl St instead of a third Texas team.
08-01-2015 09:36 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #53
RE: What happens If....
Interesting scenarios. I'll throw another one in there.

Let's say ND agrees to join the ACC. Texas follows suit, but wants to bring a couple of regional schools with them. The ACC would prefer Baylor. Texas also takes Texas Tech to placate some of the political rumblings. The ACC now has 18 and a very strong base for a network. The LHN is transformed into the ACCN and everybody in that league lives happily ever after.

Oklahoma heads to the SEC. The league needs a partner and so they select West Virginia.

Kansas would prefer the Big Ten and so they head that way along with UConn.

The PAC 12 doesn't really like any of the prospects they have left. They make an exception though knowing this is the last chance to get any strong programs from the Central time zone. They take Oklahoma State, Houston, Iowa State, and Kansas State.

You have 3 16 team leagues and one 18 team league.
08-01-2015 01:59 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #54
RE: What happens If....
(07-18-2015 12:21 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I would love to see Oklahoma come to the SEC. They are exactly the type of program that we need to expand with. Now I have been giving who number 16 should be. And if the SEC can't lure Texas then I would be fine with Iowa state rather West Virginia.

I agree but would pick Kansas over Iowa State. ISU is a fine school, but KU brings some interesting rivalries which would be restored. Been away awhile guys. All involved in this LA and Rams relocation battle on the Rams board. Season is almost here!
08-01-2015 03:10 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #55
RE: What happens If....
(08-01-2015 03:10 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-18-2015 12:21 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I would love to see Oklahoma come to the SEC. They are exactly the type of program that we need to expand with. Now I have been giving who number 16 should be. And if the SEC can't lure Texas then I would be fine with Iowa state rather West Virginia.

I agree but would pick Kansas over Iowa State. ISU is a fine school, but KU brings some interesting rivalries which would be restored. Been away awhile guys. All involved in this LA and Rams relocation battle on the Rams board. Season is almost here!

How's that look? From where I sit and what limited discussion with folks I have had, it's starting to look like The Chargers and The Raiders have simply been playing the same card everyone has in regards to using LA expansion as a threat to get what they want in their existing location.
08-01-2015 03:26 PM
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