(07-20-2015 04:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Miami would be absolutely nuts to pass up this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Part of the charm of the Orange Bowl was how intimate it felt. It felt almost dangerous to be there and that served the Canes incredibly well.

Sun Life Stadium is unquestionably a nicer facility than this field will be but it will never be nearly as intimate. Also, it is a solid 25-30 minutes from campus.

If I am Miami, I am doing pretty much whatever I have to do to get in on the ground floor here. They could end up with a very intimate, very intimidating, very electric place to play. All of those things would only benefit their program.

We have no idea if it's a real opportunity, though. Depends how much money the Beckham group wants from UM, whether UM gets first choice of game dates during college football season and gets to keep the revenue from concessions on its own game days, whether MLS really wants an expansion team playing in a stadium with 25,000 tarped-over seats, whether a stadium with 40,000-plus seats could even fit in the available space (see drawing above), etc.

A year or two ago MLS said they didn't want the stadium on this site (this is separate from the Beckham group calling the location "tainted"). I certainly don't think they'd want a team in a 40,00-50,00-seat stadium on this site.

And I agree, I'm not sure a 40,000-seat stadium would even fit on this site without increasing the design/construction costs substantially in order to account for the tight space. Miami isn't going to pay $100M+ for this stadium while buying out of the remainder of their 25-year lease at Sun Life.

And the Mayor, after having initially said months ago that they would expand the Metro Mover from downtown to this location to assist with "mass transit" has apparently said that offer is not on the table. So that's another knock on this site.

(07-18-2015 10:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  25k is large for an MLS stadium, Sporting KC has around 18k seats, I'm not sure they are still taking reservations for the wait list but they have been one of the most successful teams in the league the past few years and one of their officials told me that they won't expand until they have 10 years of sellouts, they are 4 1/2 years toward that goal.

Its not that insane for a soccer-specific MLS stadium, Toronto, the Galaxy, the Red Bulls all play in 25K+ seat stadiums. Houston plays in a 22K seat stadium. Sporting KC actually plays in the third smallest stadium in MLS at 18,467.

All of that being said 25K is way too big for a stadium in Miami where professional sports outside the NFL just aren't supported even when the team is winning championships. The Heat do just well enough I suppose. I'm of the opinion that putting an MLS franchise in Miami is insane and that the Florida Panthers and Miami Marlins should have been moved elsewhere years ago. The reality is that professional sports for the most part just don't work there. College sports aren't any better as the U has never had amazing in the stands fan support even in their best years. (Please correct my if I'm wrong here.)

(07-20-2015 11:02 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 02:08 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 10:44 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  So UConn's stadium of just over 40,000 is too small for P5, but Miami is excited to get a stadium with 40,000 seats. Ok.

40K is just right...for a private P5 school

It's small for a P5 public. WSU is the only public P5 with less than 40k and almost all the other are around 50K or higher.

Remember: the argument of "well I'm just as good as your least valuable employee in category X" never got anyone hired.

If the Hurricanes have sold 40,000 season tickets any time in the recent past, I want to see the purchase receipts for proof. All I've ever seen at their home games are a bunch of empty seats. Not one Miami home game in recent memory has had half the stadium full. Miami is known for all the empty seats at their games.

bit, not true.



And by not true I mean when Florida State plays against them. That's literally the only time I haven't seen a stadium that's at minimum half empty and it was primarily filled with Seminoles fans.

UM has never had a huge fan base. When they were the bad boys of past they had a band wagon following. That being said, if they moved back close to school, they likely would need 50 k stadium. Soccer does not need anywhere near that size.

(07-20-2015 06:15 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 10:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  25k is large for an MLS stadium, Sporting KC has around 18k seats, I'm not sure they are still taking reservations for the wait list but they have been one of the most successful teams in the league the past few years and one of their officials told me that they won't expand until they have 10 years of sellouts, they are 4 1/2 years toward that goal.

Its not that insane for a soccer-specific MLS stadium, Toronto, the Galaxy, the Red Bulls all play in 25K+ seat stadiums. Houston plays in a 22K seat stadium. Sporting KC actually plays in the third smallest stadium in MLS at 18,467.

All of that being said 25K is way too big for a stadium in Miami where professional sports outside the NFL just aren't supported even when the team is winning championships. The Heat do just well enough I suppose. I'm of the opinion that putting an MLS franchise in Miami is insane and that the Florida Panthers and Miami Marlins should have been moved elsewhere years ago. The reality is that professional sports for the most part just don't work there. College sports aren't any better as the U has never had amazing in the stands fan support even in their best years. (Please correct my if I'm wrong here.)

Even as a regular top 5 they would only need the upper deck of the Orange Bowl a few times a year. If I were a university president or pro team owner and saw someone selling well in that market I would hire them quickly.

It's not that it is a bad market, just a tough one for attracting casual fans. I know that's an odd hair split but most of their teams have a good core base it is attracting the one or two games per year fans seems to be so challenging. I played golf once with a big Miami booster and he said that it you quickly recognize everyone in your area and notice the rare one shot attendee.

Miami needs to break down and build a decent stadium of their own either on campus or near it.

What major college football power does have their own stadium? I can think of USC, but their stadium is right across the street from the campus. UCLA doesn't have their own stadium, but they get to play in the Rose Bowl...not bad.

Also, it's a shame that Miami can't sell out their stadium on a regular basis. How many college powers don't at least sell out a 60-70K stadium on a regular basis? I don't think there are many, if any.

Where does Miami get their money? I can't figure it out.

Miami doesn't have "money". They'd only be ~$10M ahead of UCF and USF in revenue if you accounted for Miami's ACC payout.

Miami has no room on campus to build a stadium. Nor do they have the money. There's also limited space close to campus to build one. There's a county park several miles west of campus that's been message board fodder for years, but there would likely be significant public backlash against turning it into a football stadium. And, again, UM can't afford to buy the land or build the stadium there even if the public approved it.

That's why, barring some massive private donations in the next year or two, UM isn't going to play at the crappy location Beckham's building his stadium; because UM doesn't have the money.

I thought USC now owned their stadium. And I don't really consider UCLA a football power.

Of schools who have won national titles in the last 50 years, I can only think of Pitt and GT who currently have worse attendance figures than Miami. And that has nothing to do with them now playing at Sun Life. They never had full-capacity seasons while at the Orange Bowl.

^

Even their last national title team, heralded as one of the best ever, only drew 46,000.

(07-19-2015 10:44 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  So UConn's stadium of just over 40,000 is too small for P5, but Miami is excited to get a stadium with 40,000 seats. Ok.

Miami is a small private school that in reality has more in common with Duke, Rice and a number of northeastern privates. A 40,000 seat stadium makes perfect sense for them regardless of P5 standards. I always suggested a 45,000 seat stadium with hills in the endzone that could create a 55,000 SRO capacity. That would make the most sense to me.

UConn is a large flagship public with lots of people in the region, they should have a larger stadium, even if football isn't as popular up there.

(07-19-2015 02:08 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 10:44 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  So UConn's stadium of just over 40,000 is too small for P5, but Miami is excited to get a stadium with 40,000 seats. Ok.

40K is just right...for a private P5 school

It's small for a P5 public. WSU is the only public P5 with less than 40k and almost all the other are around 50K or higher.

Remember: the argument of "well I'm just as good as your least valuable employee in category X" never got anyone hired.

Beat me to it. That said, UConn is more of a P5 school than, say, Texas Tech, especially before they entered the Big 12-2.

(07-20-2015 11:02 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It's small for a P5 public. WSU is the only public P5 with less than 40k and almost all the other are around 50K or higher.

Remember: the argument of "well I'm just as good as your least valuable employee in category X" never got anyone hired.

If the Hurricanes have sold 40,000 season tickets any time in the recent past, I want to see the purchase receipts for proof. All I've ever seen at their home games are a bunch of empty seats. Not one Miami home game in recent memory has had half the stadium full. Miami is known for all the empty seats at their games.
[/quote]

True but in part because it's too hot to sit in the stadium at game time very often.

I think people are GROSSLY underestimating Miami. They are THE very best college football program of my lifetime and have put more guys in the NFL than anyone else over the past 30 years. Also, while not loaded like many of their competitors, they still have the resources to win big. The fact that they've struggled for going on a decade now has more to do with poor coaching hires and sanctions than anything else, IMHO.

Finally, people saying "Miami only averaged X amount of fans while true powers and past national champions have averaged at least X number of fans" are either completely missing the point or being intentionally disingenuous.

That is obviously a function of their being a college team in a pro city. They are never going to be able to change that fact and have always had to deal with that issue. And yet they've won how many national championships in the past 30 years?

To me it is like saying Miami has more advantages than anyone because if you look at the past 30 national champions, only a handful of them are located within 20 miles of beach. To be a true power – a program that wins multiple national championships – you need to play in at least 70° weather and be within an easy drive of the beach.

Well, what is Ohio State going to do about that? What is Nebraska going to do about that? Are they going to move their campuses? No, they're going to sell their assets and hope they are enough to overcome whatever other arbitrary criteria others establish.

Please do not misconstrue what I'm saying here. Stadium atmosphere definitely helps with recruiting and I fully recognize that. However, a full 40,000 seat stadium feels an awful lot like a full 80,000 seat stadium.

One of the posters reminded me, correctly, that we don't know the terms and conditions of Miami joining the Beckham group in building a stadium together. That is absolutely right and a key point. However, assuming that everything checks out the way we think it would – where each is an equal partner and they can comfortably and feasibly build a 40,000 seat stadium suitable for both the football team and the soccer team – I think Miami will be insane to pass up this opportunity.

Now, if it becomes something that is cost prohibitive then obviously that is a game changer. However, if it is merely a matter of their kicking in a reasonable amount of money, I think Miami can probably afford to do that. They have a lot of well-heeled donors.

I don't believe anyone contests that Miami can potentially play top 5 football, but they aren't likely to be top 30 in attendance.

I disagree Dr. UM doesn't have the $$ nor resources to hire big time coaches, Nor do they have top notch facilities. They got lucky with Schnelenberger as the coach and caught lightning in a bottle. They then built a renegade program where the administrators looked the other way. Every year that goes by without them being great, makes that return harder. Kids graduating high school today were in elementary school the last time they were great. The swagger is dead.

Why would they want to leave Sun Life Stadium when it is in the middle of a neck to nuts rebuild? They are reducing seating capacity already, adding shading to cover most the seats, more video boards etc.

http://www.newmiamistadium.com/