(07-30-2015 10:08 AM)NYJMUSupporter Wrote:  Would I like to see Bridgeforth full for every game? Absolutely. But the fact is, it may not be for a while. HD TV, the economy, change in college football attendance across the board, reduction in rivalries etc are impacting attendance across the college football landscape.

For my money, it does not get much better than a Saturday afternoon/evening in the burg during the fall. Great people, great food, an awesome band, great entertainment for my family and high quality football. Is it the best football on the planet? No, but it works for me. I know for sure that I could not afford the season tickets I have if we were a major FBS program. Add all that up and that is why I do not complain on every single thread that is started. We have it pretty good folks. At some point, some of you just should enjoy what we have, instead of what you cannot control.

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

(07-30-2015 08:14 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(07-29-2015 11:11 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-29-2015 02:13 PM)Yesolitis Wrote:  Given that I am in the foreign service, this may be the last year for me as a season ticket holder, since I'll be abroad for the foreseeable future after this year. It will be easy enough to get great seats week-to-week for my parents if they want in future years. All the grandkids are getting older so they are starting to get involved with other activities on weekends. As fans mature, the product needs to be significant or local for one to buy in to the season tickets. Right now, the product - including the tailgate atmosphere in my opinion - is not there due to the reduced level/perception of JMU's football competition. Locally, there are only so many fans within an hour's drive.

The Duke Club has a tough sell these days, but we'll always be 15K+ with a 8-3 or better team. Sell outs? The shine has worn off with nothing to excite coming down the pipeline.

I'd rather push my future donations into other areas of JMU's academics, but with my oldest 3 years away from college, $$ will be tight for a long time to come.

Best of luck in your future service postings, but your perception of the future demographics underlying potential FB attendance could not be more off base. Harrisonburg is one of the fastest growing metro areas in VA, and JMU general enrollment is not going to shrink. Additionally, your comment denigrating the tailgating pregame atmosphere at home games is simply absurd.

All factors indicate that should the program maintain a winning tradition average attendance will continue to be 20k+ and the game day atmosphere will continue as is, even should the program remain FCS. Sorry if your dire predictions aren't likely to come true.

I wouldn't take his line as denigrating the tailgating atmosphere so much. P Lot and Godwin are fantastic, but beyond that it is sporadic at best (C3, G, Convo, Hansen) to just abysmal (the D Lots and free lots near Festival). Granted a lot of that has to do with people parking in those lots and going to P/Godwin areas which helps boost their experience. But it would be nice to have a solid wall of tailgating all the way to the Judith Carrier Arboretum.

I agree, I don't think he meant the tailgate portion in an overly negative manner and there's no doubt that for those of us who graduated prior to '05, it's still a really special thing. But as a long-time D-2/C-4/Convo parker, I can tell you that outside of Godwin and P, the tailgate scene has really dropped off just in the last couple of years. There may be multiple reasons for that as have been cited and winning certainly would have helped during the last of the MM era, but the momentum from when New BFS was announced through about ODU's leaving has died and I for one am certain that at least in the case of my fellow revelers, our momentum rested largely on what we all thought New BFS meant. Some of us have stayed because we still love it for our own reasons, but let's not kid ourselves that we've ever been back to quite the enthusiasm levels we had from about '08-'10, which is hard to believe is now 5 years ago.

(07-29-2015 02:13 PM)Yesolitis Wrote:  I'd rather push my future donations into other areas of JMU's academics, but with my oldest 3 years away from college, $$ will be tight for a long time to come.

I did that this year. We were never season ticket holders because we live in NJ, and traveling to VA more than once a year asking a lot, especially since we try to fit in a few Rutgers and Army games, hikes, and everything else you want to do in Fall. But I gave to the Duke Club and got tickets/tailgate for the family for one game a year. The family didn't want to make the trip this year.

In addition, the Duke Club hasn't been the most... appreciative.. of donees. I've reached out on a few occasions (such as offering to make a donation for Convo, thanking the admin for the money-losing home playoff game, etc.) and have never gotten so much as a "k, thx" in response. I'm not a big donor (purple), but c'mon.

So if the Duke Club doesn't want me, and the family doesn't care about going to football games anymore, why not give somewhere else. I increased my donation and gave it to the History Dept. I sent Liz Menne a note explaining my reason for redirecting my donation this year and (surprise) no response. How's that Convo fundraising going, anyway?

Sorry for derailing the thread with this rant . As you were...

It's all about the numbers and demographics. (numbers below are "rough")

* The great BFS seats roughly 20,000 non-students. I'm guessing ticket sales are 15,000 on the best of weekends.
* BF seats roughly 5000 on the student side on the best weekend. Attendance drops to about 500 after the half.
* Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)
* Population of H-burg is 50,000. 25,000 when school isn't in session.
* 75% of students are from VA, about 90% of those students live around two hours away.
* The out of state students live 3-5+ hours away
* There are 12,000 female students and 8000 male students (60/40)
* JMU looks to have a top 25 FCS and playoff bound program for the foreseeable future.
* JMU football staff is running some of the most exciting style in all of college football.
* For someone not connected to JMU, why would they support or be a fan of JMU when VT and UVA are your neighbors?

So what type of demographic donates, buys season tickets and attends most of the games? My best guess:
60%: Alum that are male and live withing two hours. (Richmond & NOVA)
30%: Parents of current students or recent grads
5%: Males that live more than a few hours away
4%: Locals that hate UVA and VT
1% people that just like to watch good football
??? of corporate donors????

I don't think anything changes much unless you can pick up JMU and move it to a more metro area. The demographics are what they are. JMU football has an exciting brand and a winning program that somewhat struggles with attendance and support. I've had no dealings with the AD and that's probably not a good thing. Are they getting out and selling the program? It should be interesting to see what happens when (if) the FBS move happens and the wins get cut in half and the AD asks for more money. Regardless of who your team plays, most fans dont want to see their team getting beat, everyone likes a winner.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty clueless regarding most things JMU. I've been following JMU for around 15 years but never a real fan. Last year I became a supporter and fan of JMU sports when my oldest kid became a student. FB and WBB have become another addiction. Becoming a real fan of the other sports may take some time but MBB will be the hardest. I'm a VCU supporter and fan for many years, besides I don't think Coach Brady is...well....ummm.....I'm just not a fan.

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)

Horrible? There are a lot of FBS school that would love to have JMU's students section even on our worst days.

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * BF seats roughly 5000 on the student side on the best weekend. Attendance drops to about 500 after the half.
* Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)
* Population of H-burg is 50,000. 25,000 when school isn't in session.

If I remember correctly there are now 7k student tickets for every game. And the population of Hburg is 50k period. That is permanent residents when school is in session Hburg is 70k.

JMU must be dumping game 1 tickets in local charities. I have had two offers for freebies.

(08-12-2015 04:44 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)

Horrible? There are a lot of FBS school that would love to have JMU's students section even on our worst days.

Yep. We may complain as JMU fans about them, but when we take off our rose colored glasses and compare to others, we really have good student support for our level and local competition for their time.

(08-12-2015 05:06 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * BF seats roughly 5000 on the student side on the best weekend. Attendance drops to about 500 after the half.
* Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)
* Population of H-burg is 50,000. 25,000 when school isn't in session.

If I remember correctly there are now 7k student tickets for every game. And the population of Hburg is 50k period. That is permanent residents when school is in session Hburg is 70k.

I believe the allotment for students at BFS was 8,000...obviously not all of those seats are reserved through the online process, and after a certain date they are made available for public sale. Still, I don't think that initial allotment has been reduced. Mr. VCU/JMU fan makes several statements and assumptions that don't jive with reality.

(08-12-2015 05:06 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * BF seats roughly 5000 on the student side on the best weekend. Attendance drops to about 500 after the half.
* Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)
* Population of H-burg is 50,000. 25,000 when school isn't in session.

If I remember correctly there are now 7k student tickets for every game. And the population of Hburg is 50k period. That is permanent residents when school is in session Hburg is 70k.

Yep 50k year round residents. It may count JMU off campus students that have their primary address as the hburg apartment, but when you live here at least 2/3 of a year, why shouldn't it count as population?
Norfolk isn't not counting odu students, fairfax isn't not counting gmu students, etc

(08-12-2015 05:30 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 05:06 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * BF seats roughly 5000 on the student side on the best weekend. Attendance drops to about 500 after the half.
* Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)
* Population of H-burg is 50,000. 25,000 when school isn't in session.

If I remember correctly there are now 7k student tickets for every game. And the population of Hburg is 50k period. That is permanent residents when school is in session Hburg is 70k.

Yep 50k year round residents. It may count JMU off campus students that have their primary address as the hburg apartment, but when you live here at least 2/3 of a year, why shouldn't it count as population?

I'd add that the projected current population is closer to 52-53k, and that Harrisonburg is one of the fastest growing metro areas in VA.

(08-12-2015 05:18 PM)NovaDuke Wrote:  JMU must be dumping game 1 tickets in local charities. I have had two offers for freebies.

Which is smart. It increases your likelihood of local support. Many schools do this nationwide.

(08-12-2015 05:32 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 05:30 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 05:06 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * BF seats roughly 5000 on the student side on the best weekend. Attendance drops to about 500 after the half.
* Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)
* Population of H-burg is 50,000. 25,000 when school isn't in session.

If I remember correctly there are now 7k student tickets for every game. And the population of Hburg is 50k period. That is permanent residents when school is in session Hburg is 70k.

Yep 50k year round residents. It may count JMU off campus students that have their primary address as the hburg apartment, but when you live here at least 2/3 of a year, why shouldn't it count as population?

I'd add that the projected current population is closer to 52-53k, and that Harrisonburg is one of the fastest growing metro areas in VA.

Plus 70-80 thousand in Rockingham county. Harrisonburg is the 2nd fastest growing Metro area in Virginia after Leesburg.

Harrisonburg may be one of the fastest growing areas in the state but it's tiny. Even if it doubles or quadruples over the next 30 years (unlikely), it's still smaller than Harrisburg, PA or Bentonville, AR (assuming growth in those areas stopped to let Harrisonburg catch up). That doesn't get ESPN salivating. We're a small town school and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

The fan support JMU gets is at or near the top of he FCS. For the level JMU plays, you can't ask for much better. Moving to FBS, we're going to have to rely on engaging alumni and students who were otherwise uninterested, and hopefully a good number of unaffiliated fans hop on too. I think we may still see 15-20k against no-hum conference mates that few fans care about, but the key will be establishing conference rivalries with schools more like ours (w&m college and Richmond college are not like us and any "rivalry" feels forced to me anymore), and landing solid OOC home games to fill the seats a few games/year.

Harrisonburg is bigger than both Harrisburg and Bentonville. Are you talking MSA size? If so, then you're right that it is much smaller than the others. Though I feel that the Harrisonburg MSA should actually be bigger than just Harrisonburg and Rockingham County but thats a completely different discussion.

(08-12-2015 07:44 PM)bridgeforthduke Wrote:  Harrisonburg is bigger than both Harrisburg and Bentonville. Are you talking MSA size? If so, then you're right that it is much smaller than the others. Though I feel that the Harrisonburg MSA should actually be bigger than just Harrisonburg and Rockingham County but thats a completely different discussion.

Yeah the comments above were about MSAs and that's what I was comparing.

(08-12-2015 04:44 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)

Horrible? There are a lot of FBS school that would love to have JMU's students section even on our worst days.

Student support at JMU for Football has to be top 5 in 1AA at worst.

(08-12-2015 08:29 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:44 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)

Horrible? There are a lot of FBS school that would love to have JMU's students section even on our worst days.

Student support at JMU for Football has to be top 5 in 1AA at worst.

By total numbers, probably so. We have a very large population for an FCS level team. As a percentage of the student body...I'm not so sure. It sure does look good though when the students show up in droves and rock the endzone area.

(08-12-2015 05:06 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * BF seats roughly 5000 on the student side on the best weekend. Attendance drops to about 500 after the half.
* Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)
* Population of H-burg is 50,000. 25,000 when school isn't in session.

If I remember correctly there are now 7k student tickets for every game. And the population of Hburg is 50k period. That is permanent residents when school is in session Hburg is 70k.

Nope, the Census is pretty clear that college students living away from home most of the year are to be counted in their college town. I'm sure not every family fills out the form correctly, but a good chunk of Hburg's growth over the years is from an increase in the JMU student population. But there's no way that the population drops in half when school's not in session - not even close.

(08-12-2015 08:53 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 08:29 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:44 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 04:20 PM)RamDawg Wrote:  * Student support of all JMU sports (outside of the pep organizations) is horrible. Especially consider JMU has very successful sports. (I'll point my finger at the AD)

Horrible? There are a lot of FBS school that would love to have JMU's students section even on our worst days.

Student support at JMU for Football has to be top 5 in 1AA at worst.

By total numbers, probably so. We have a very large population for an FCS level team. As a percentage of the student body...I'm not so sure. It sure does look good though when the students show up in droves and rock the endzone area.

There is no one close in the CAA. I'd guess UD is under 2000 a game. W&M under 1,000?

It would be interesting to see what our average is versus the combined rest of the CAA student attendance wise.

My guess is we're over 5 times the average.