(07-18-2015 04:24 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:36 PM)billings Wrote:  Montana and Montana state would love to be in a western conference with old Big SKy rivals of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise. They hate what the big sky has become and Fullerton knows that.

Any possibility of the Big Sky splitting in two, like the WAC-16 did?

SUU lost their AD in May, their President made some comment that SUU will have to drop a level behind the Montanas. People there assumed DII, but SUU will stay FCS and end up with WAC schools. Suspect that Weber St, NAU, NC, Idaho St dont have FBS plans. DII's Dixie St and maybe Azusa Pacific can join them and then they would be an FCS conference with whatever is left of the WAC. A lot of the Sky will go FBS.

http://www.ironcountytoday.com/view/full...z3fPD0YyK3

These are the schools I see going to the Big Sky FBS:

Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sac St
Portland St - or drop fb and go WAC
EWU
IDAHO WILL slide fb over
Montana
MSU
UND
NMSU if they can't get in the Belt
Invites to NDSU, SDSU, and USD

I asked whether the Montana schools wanted to split with the newer additions to the Big Sky. I didn't ask for another everybody-in-FCS-gets-to-move-to-FBS fantasy.

(07-18-2015 03:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:36 PM)billings Wrote:  Montana and Montana state would love to be in a western conference with old Big SKy rivals of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise. They hate what the big sky has become and Fullerton knows that.

Any possibility of the Big Sky splitting in two, like the WAC-16 did?

The montana schools would love to ditch a few big sky schools and add the dakotas to the FCS league but not sure there are enough FCS schools in the west to pull this off frankly.

Don't see a split as part of any move up idea. None of these schools can afford COA, to add multiple sports, attendance is poor, and will stay poor unless they join a different league. To move up as a group is stupid since attendance won't get any better and costs will increase greatly. A FBS BIG SKY will have a lot more costs involved and no more fan interest as they keep playing the same teams at home as they did before. I mean playing weber state is playing weber state regardless of NCAA classification letters involved. (no insult to weber state just saying it is the same opponent either way) Sure you might get a home game with a MWC or MAC team now and then but small stadiums won't offset the costs and Montana asnd MSU already sell out often anyway so no new revenue there either without costly stadium rebuilds they can't afford.

Now a MWC invite might interest montana or montana st but that is not happening since they would be a package deal and the MWC would look south first anyway

AS I said the montana schools do not like the Big Sky they are in. To stay in basically the same conference and just increase the costs to FBS level with no $$ from playoff deal, no new conference opponents, and no real TV or Bowl deals is the definition of folly and has fail written all over it. Fullerton spews it out to make the montana schools think about not leaving but they aren't going anywhere anyway

(07-18-2015 07:07 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 04:24 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:36 PM)billings Wrote:  Montana and Montana state would love to be in a western conference with old Big SKy rivals of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise. They hate what the big sky has become and Fullerton knows that.

Any possibility of the Big Sky splitting in two, like the WAC-16 did?

SUU lost their AD in May, their President made some comment that SUU will have to drop a level behind the Montanas. People there assumed DII, but SUU will stay FCS and end up with WAC schools. Suspect that Weber St, NAU, NC, Idaho St dont have FBS plans. DII's Dixie St and maybe Azusa Pacific can join them and then they would be an FCS conference with whatever is left of the WAC. A lot of the Sky will go FBS.

http://www.ironcountytoday.com/view/full...z3fPD0YyK3

These are the schools I see going to the Big Sky FBS:

Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sac St
Portland St - or drop fb and go WAC
EWU
IDAHO WILL slide fb over
Montana
MSU
UND
NMSU if they can't get in the Belt
Invites to NDSU, SDSU, and USD

I asked whether the Montana schools wanted to split with the newer additions to the Big Sky. I didn't ask for another everybody-in-FCS-gets-to-move-to-FBS fantasy.

The Montanas want west coast schools and the Dakotas. If that offendS you, so be it. The Big Sky will be able to go FBS with only UND from the Dakotas if it has too.

(07-18-2015 07:15 PM)billings Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:36 PM)billings Wrote:  Montana and Montana state would love to be in a western conference with old Big SKy rivals of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise. They hate what the big sky has become and Fullerton knows that.

Any possibility of the Big Sky splitting in two, like the WAC-16 did?

The montana schools would love to ditch a few big sky schools and add the dakotas to the FCS league but not sure there are enough FCS schools in the west to pull this off frankly.

Don't see a split as part of any move up idea. None of these schools can afford COA, to add multiple sports, attendance is poor, and will stay poor unless they join a different league. To move up as a group is stupid since attendance won't get any better and costs will increase greatly. A FBS BIG SKY will have a lot more costs involved and no more fan interest as they keep playing the same teams at home as they did before.

Yep. A move up has to come with a qualitative upgrade in schedule.

Some may disagree with this strategy but the SBC would be smart to build out a western division of FB-Only schools instead of focusing East.

NDSU would be a great pickup for the SBC in a potential Western Division. Add Montana and Montana State FB Only to go to 14. A division of Idaho, New Mexico State, Montana, Montana State, NDSU, Texas State, AState and ULM would be a qualitative upgrade over the Big Sky. Montana and Montana State could put their other sports in the Summit which could be a staging point for a North Central FBS conference someday.

I have a hard time seeing Montana benefitting from a move to FBS (I hate up down nomenclature each is unique and has its own benefits and detriments).

But consider this.

On an average Saturday when Montana and Montana State are at home they draw 4% of the state's population. On an average Saturday Arkansas and Arkansas State will have twice as many fans combined as the Montana schools but draw only 3% of the state population.

Arkansas State left FCS to return to FBS because it made financial sense. At the time Arkansas was drawing nearly 20k fewer per game and AState was drawing 10k less than today it was a growth market. At the time two forces collided. The state clamped down on athletic finances and NCAA barred counting any FCS games for bowl eligibility. 15k wouldn't support the program when it was doing well. Access to regional FBS opponents was essential.

If AState had been averaging 24k in FCS our administration would have been asking if it didn't make better sense to stay FCS and be marginally profitable. I have visited extensively with our then president (he now heads up the Kay's Foundation which is an independent charitable endowment that mostly funds AState) and he said the choices considered were Division II which was ruled out because hoops was drawing well at the time, Division I with non-scholarship football ruled out when I-AAA non-scholarship football was rejected by the NCAA because there would be no post-season option, dropping football ruled out because of recent success and averaging 80% or better of FBS standard, and moving to FBS

If you are Montana moving up (without FCOA) means an outlay of about $700,000 in scholarship costs. Figure probably close to $2 million in total costs with new staff and higher salaries added to the scholarship costs. Making that up in ticket sales even at their high for FCS/G5 ticket prices means averaging 10k more tickets sold per game or playing money games that will hurt winning percentage and possibly ticket demand. Who can they regularly play that has local interest other than Idaho and some MWC schools?

The math just isn't there for Montana.

(07-18-2015 11:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  If you are Montana moving up (without FCOA) means an outlay of about $700,000 in scholarship costs. Figure probably close to $2 million in total costs with new staff and higher salaries added to the scholarship costs. Making that up in ticket sales even at their high for FCS/G5 ticket prices means averaging 10k more tickets sold per game or playing money games that will hurt winning percentage and possibly ticket demand. Who can they regularly play that has local interest other than Idaho and some MWC schools?

The math just isn't there for Montana.

Or what about the 1 million per school in CFP money they'd pick up as a member in the Sun Belt? That would pay for FCOA dollars. They could even stay in conference like the Summit which doesn't do FCOA for all sports.

One of the more compelling reasons of not wanting to move up if you are Montana I think is the revenue that a school like Montana can pick up from hosting playoff games. Also until recently moving to FBS was a non-starter due to Montana State not being ready for it but now they aren't far behind Montana in FBS readiness.

If I were Benson I'd look at NDSU, Montana, Montana State before messing around with Coastal Carolina or Eastern Kentucky. Bring in some schools that look like they belong in an FBS conference and not a DII one and perhaps score a better TV deal in the process.

Except Sun Belt is more likely to drop Idaho than add Montana. Without joining a CFP signatory league there is no CFP money.

(07-18-2015 09:57 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 07:15 PM)billings Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:36 PM)billings Wrote:  Montana and Montana state would love to be in a western conference with old Big SKy rivals of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise. They hate what the big sky has become and Fullerton knows that.

Any possibility of the Big Sky splitting in two, like the WAC-16 did?

The montana schools would love to ditch a few big sky schools and add the dakotas to the FCS league but not sure there are enough FCS schools in the west to pull this off frankly.

Don't see a split as part of any move up idea. None of these schools can afford COA, to add multiple sports, attendance is poor, and will stay poor unless they join a different league. To move up as a group is stupid since attendance won't get any better and costs will increase greatly. A FBS BIG SKY will have a lot more costs involved and no more fan interest as they keep playing the same teams at home as they did before.

Yep. A move up has to come with a qualitative upgrade in schedule.

Some may disagree with this strategy but the SBC would be smart to build out a western division of FB-Only schools instead of focusing East.

NDSU would be a great pickup for the SBC in a potential Western Division. Add Montana and Montana State FB Only to go to 14. A division of Idaho, New Mexico State, Montana, Montana State, NDSU, Texas State, AState and ULM would be a qualitative upgrade over the Big Sky. Montana and Montana State could put their other sports in the Summit which could be a staging point for a North Central FBS conference someday.

I think the SBC would gain some relevance with a set up like that. Probably their best shot of passing CUSA and the MAC. Not in competition necessarily but in exposure . NDSU would have won a couple G5 conferences two years ago. No reason to think them and Montana would not be the West divisions version of Georgia Southern and App ST. The CFP money could be split among football only schools. Meaning the nine full members get full shares . The football only split the remaining three . Maybe give the full Western division members some travel money. Better scenario than adding some schools that aren't ready.

(07-18-2015 11:56 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 09:57 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 07:15 PM)billings Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:36 PM)billings Wrote:  Montana and Montana state would love to be in a western conference with old Big SKy rivals of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise. They hate what the big sky has become and Fullerton knows that.

Any possibility of the Big Sky splitting in two, like the WAC-16 did?

The montana schools would love to ditch a few big sky schools and add the dakotas to the FCS league but not sure there are enough FCS schools in the west to pull this off frankly.

Don't see a split as part of any move up idea. None of these schools can afford COA, to add multiple sports, attendance is poor, and will stay poor unless they join a different league. To move up as a group is stupid since attendance won't get any better and costs will increase greatly. A FBS BIG SKY will have a lot more costs involved and no more fan interest as they keep playing the same teams at home as they did before.

Yep. A move up has to come with a qualitative upgrade in schedule.

Some may disagree with this strategy but the SBC would be smart to build out a western division of FB-Only schools instead of focusing East.

NDSU would be a great pickup for the SBC in a potential Western Division. Add Montana and Montana State FB Only to go to 14. A division of Idaho, New Mexico State, Montana, Montana State, NDSU, Texas State, AState and ULM would be a qualitative upgrade over the Big Sky. Montana and Montana State could put their other sports in the Summit which could be a staging point for a North Central FBS conference someday.

I think the SBC would gain some relevance with a set up like that. Probably their best shot of passing CUSA and the MAC. Not in competition necessarily but in exposure . NDSU would have won a couple G5 conferences two years ago. No reason to think them and Montana would not be the West divisions version of Georgia Southern and App ST. The CFP money could be split among football only schools. Meaning the nine full members get full shares . The football only split the remaining three . Maybe give the full Western division members some travel money. Better scenario than adding some schools that aren't ready.

The Sun Belt is not looking to add any more football only members. There is more talk about cutting the football only members. Also the Sun Belt will only invite FCS move ups as all sports members not football only members. This is fact not fiction.

(07-18-2015 03:36 PM)billings Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 11:13 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 10:38 AM)billings Wrote:  Well neither montana school wants to move up. Can tell you montana state has flat out stated they have zero interest in fbs. Montana has a decent chunk of fans who want to move up but not a majority.

The montana schools basically run the big sky. It dries up without them in terms of fan support and they are the ones who get almost all the televised games.

If the Montana schools run the Sky, which I am in agreement, they sure tolerate Fullerton running his mouth. Fullerton is quoted in a recent radio broadcast that there are upcoming changes to allow much of BSC to move up over four to five years.

https://m.soundcloud.com/siriusxmcollege...-4-5-years

So if the Montana schools won't fire Fullerton over his remarks, as he's their puppet, it can only be that their some of the forces behind FBS.

Former Montana AD O'Day has said financially the FCS doesn't work and they would have to go FBS or D2.

Everybody up here laughs at Fullerton. Most hate how he expanded the BIG sky into the mess it is today. He brought in UNC and SUU and built a weird mixed mess of a conference. Behind the scenes he simply wants to keep Montana and Montana State in the Big Sky as he knows it is pretty much toast from a TV and Fan attendance perspective if they leave. Yet the other presidents often don't vote the way montana and MSU want them to as they know they are really not going anywhere given their financial circumstances and the UM study saying it would not be feasable. Fullerton is just getting a sore crouch from riding the fence to keep everyone in a messy conference happy and thus comments are all over the place.

Montana and Montana state would love to be in a western conference with old Big SKy rivals of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise. They hate what the big sky has become and Fullerton knows that. But and it is a big but, they have no money and the state is not kicking in anymore unlike what Wyoming and Utah Did to support those schools with COA. O Day alas said they needed over $5 million a year more to the athletic budget to be competitive in a FBS league and that was before the COA came out. They are iin between a rock and a hard place. There is no will to move up at this point


All UM and MSU want him to do is get Idaho back for Football right now and thus all his talk.

Boise State, Nevada, Colorado State, San Diego State and New Mexico could move to a P5 conference. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana and Montana State could join the MWC. Maybe get some Dakota schools in there could make the eastern part of MWC more tighter than they are in Big Sky.

Montana, Montana State, North Dakota State, Wyoming, Air Force and Utah State.
Eastern Washington, Sacremento State, Fresno State, UNLV, Hawaii, San Jose State.

Would that look much better than the conference that they are in? It could save them money that way.

UTEP and Wichita State might come in. Plus, playing at the FBS level, Montana and Montana State will earn more money playing P5 schools.

(07-18-2015 07:07 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 04:24 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 03:36 PM)billings Wrote:  Montana and Montana state would love to be in a western conference with old Big SKy rivals of Nevada, Idaho, and Boise. They hate what the big sky has become and Fullerton knows that.

Any possibility of the Big Sky splitting in two, like the WAC-16 did?

SUU lost their AD in May, their President made some comment that SUU will have to drop a level behind the Montanas. People there assumed DII, but SUU will stay FCS and end up with WAC schools. Suspect that Weber St, NAU, NC, Idaho St dont have FBS plans. DII's Dixie St and maybe Azusa Pacific can join them and then they would be an FCS conference with whatever is left of the WAC. A lot of the Sky will go FBS.

http://www.ironcountytoday.com/view/full...z3fPD0YyK3

These are the schools I see going to the Big Sky FBS:

Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sac St
Portland St - or drop fb and go WAC
EWU
IDAHO WILL slide fb over
Montana
MSU
UND
NMSU if they can't get in the Belt
Invites to NDSU, SDSU, and USD

I asked whether the Montana schools wanted to split with the newer additions to the Big Sky. I didn't ask for another everybody-in-FCS-gets-to-move-to-FBS fantasy.

I wonder how far along would Western Washington be if they make a big upgrade to join the Montanas and the other FBS schools? That part of the state is growing big time with the oil industry right now, plus you get a large market in Bellingham and that is close to the border to Canada and Vancouver. Could Simon Fraser join D1? It could temp to 10,000 seating, but could go higher. The city wanted to renovate the stadium to keep the soccor team for a 20,000 seats. Could the city go back to the plans to do that to attract a professional team with the help of the school? They could be there quick enough.

Both Birtish Columbia and Simon Fraser could play their football games at BC Place. The stadium could hold 54,500, plus it is the place for the CFL team and the pro soccor team play at.

Could UIPUI start a football program with a goal of being FBS.
Their stadium is supposed to be renovated and expanded for a pro soccer team.
Big market ready made stadium sounds familiar except they own the stadium.
Maybe the Summit could add NMSU ,IDAHO and the Montana schools.
UIPUI
NDSU
SDSU
UND
MONTANA
MONTANA ST
IDAHO
NMSU

NMSU might prefer football only with no strings.

Western washington has dropped football and it is not coming back.

(07-19-2015 03:43 PM)MJG Wrote:  Could UIPUI start a football program with a goal of being FBS.
Their stadium is supposed to be renovated and expanded for a pro soccer team.
Big market ready made stadium sounds familiar except they own the stadium.
Maybe the Summit could add NMSU ,IDAHO and the Montana schools.
UIPUI
NDSU
SDSU
UND
MONTANA
MONTANA ST
IDAHO
NMSU

NMSU might prefer football only with no strings.

IUPUI degrees either say Purdue or Indiana, depending on which coĺlege they chose. IUPUI has no fan base or loyalty to speak of, including their alumni and students. Furthermore, Bloomington and Lafayette are not that far, and Note Dame is only a couple hours. IUPUI has IU's med school and research, but their sports allegiance is to IU.

The Summit football teams want nothing to do with the formation of a Summit football conference. UND tried to get them to do it, but the other teams wanted no part of it and preferred the MVFC, even though the Summit almost lost its autobid over it.

To DavidSt: DI does not allow foreign teams in its ranks as full time members, only DII and DIII do. Simon Fraser could move their hockey teams to DI, because DII doesnt sponsor hockey, but that'S it. WWU won't restart fb. If they want DI, they have to look the WAC'S way and hope Seattle wants a travel partnet.