If you are asking me, I still like it as is. I don't mind the other conferences having one slot each. If they were removed, we'd (likely) just end up with more P5teams in the tourney, and as it is too many who have subpar seasons get it. The only changes I would make to the tourney is allowing the losers of the play-in games to play in the NIT, and allowing teams to play on their home court. The only reason I am for the latter, is because teams can play within their home town, or a few miles away anyway, you might as well allow teams to play on home courts. Doesn't mean you should always place them there, but if a team is a top seed and they are forced into a different region because they are the host team, that's not really right. I don't want teams playing at home when there are suitable options, I just don't like the hard and fast rule.

(07-08-2015 01:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 01:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 12:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 12:52 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 12:36 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I'm a little guys lover, but most of the nation wouldn't give a darn if the G5 packed up and walked out. I could see the NCAA tournament struggling for a few seasons, until the P5 created a best of 5 series format and a basket-load of classic games resulted.

The basketball tournament would be irreparably harmed if that were to happen. The biggest draw by far of the NCAA tournament among the many causal fans who tune in are the brackets. The unknown of the smaller schools is a big driver in the popularity of the brackets. You take that away, taking away the David vs. Goliath aspect, I am not saying the tournament wouldn't still be popular, but it would not be as popular as it is now with the hoards of non-fans who now tune in to watch, and the luster would come off: it would be less valuable. Especially because if it were P5 only, it would essentially be a case where everybody gets to be in the tournament.

No. They'd just find a new little guy, be it Iowa St. or Wake Forest or Northwestern. And brackets are basically about gambling, not about unknown schools.

The "P5 only basketball tournament" is a straw man. It's not a proposal that anyone with authority (h/t Bill Raftery) has ever put on the table. Separating from the NCAA means starting over with new rules; it doesn't mean no further athletic competition against non-P5 teams.

What would likely happen if the P5 separated from the NCAA is that the P5 would start its own 64-team tournament, with a tournament committee, and the committee would invite non-P5 teams to participate. Non-P5 teams like Gonzaga, Villanova, Georgetown, Wichita State, VCU, etc. would choose to play in that tournament instead of an NCAA tournament that doesn't include P5 teams. If the NCAA tried to stop them from playing in the new tournament, those basketball powers would sue the NCAA and win. Or perhaps those schools would also leave the NCAA, and the P5's new athletic organization would admit non-P5 members.

Then in that case the G5 would be out of the college football business by suicide....and the popularity of G5 sports as a whole would free fall.

If the P5 want to seperate in football then the G5 need to be united and make it all sports.....or they die together.

Being led around by the nose in exchange for a basketball payday beating without football is not a workable G5 model.

Why would you want to throw basketball under the bus as well? It makes no sense. If the P5 separate, you fight for playoff access in the courts because at that point you have nothing to lose. They can separate for most all of their games, but if the G5 can still access the same playoff, the G5 can survive at the top level. If that fails.....


The G5 would need to reorganize like FCS into small very regional conferences. Gotta cut expenses to match the realities of significantly lower revenue. If they cant gain access to the P5 playoff, then many may drop to FCS because they see little point in maintaining 85 scholarship football with limited support and no media revenue.

(07-08-2015 02:59 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 02:46 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 02:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  [quote='adcorbett' pid='12182039' dateline='1436377945']
Related to my thread about eliminating the bottom 12 or so conferences...how about leaving 4-8 wild card slots open to the tournament from the newly created lower division? Keep the tourney at 64 teams (68 sucks)...those 4-8 wildcard teams play 5 and 6 seeds in the first round.

There are roughly 42-43 spots most years for the 121 teams in the top 10 conferences. That is more than one out of every three. That is MORE than enough. The tournament is fine as it is.

My thread had us keeping the Top 20 conferences or so...(I've been swayed to increase it up from 12 from previous posts in the past)...so if you add 4-8 Wildcards from the bottom 12 or so leftout conferences I think that would still bring the David vs Goliath scenario. Lots of 5 and 6 seeds are Big Time name programs.

32 autobids were given out in this year's tournament.

You could take the 16 lowest-ranked autobid winners -- not the winners of the 16 weakest conferences, but the 16 autobid winners who rank lowest when the 32 autobid teams are ranked 1 to 32 -- and have each play a game against another team in this group, 17 vs. 32, 18 vs. 31, 19 vs. 30, etc., with the 8 winners getting a place in the field of 64 as a #15 or 16 seed.

That would mean a field of 64 composed of those 8 play-in winners, plus the 16 highest-ranked autobid winners, plus 40 at-large teams.

(07-08-2015 04:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 01:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 01:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 12:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 12:52 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  The basketball tournament would be irreparably harmed if that were to happen. The biggest draw by far of the NCAA tournament among the many causal fans who tune in are the brackets. The unknown of the smaller schools is a big driver in the popularity of the brackets. You take that away, taking away the David vs. Goliath aspect, I am not saying the tournament wouldn't still be popular, but it would not be as popular as it is now with the hoards of non-fans who now tune in to watch, and the luster would come off: it would be less valuable. Especially because if it were P5 only, it would essentially be a case where everybody gets to be in the tournament.

No. They'd just find a new little guy, be it Iowa St. or Wake Forest or Northwestern. And brackets are basically about gambling, not about unknown schools.

The "P5 only basketball tournament" is a straw man. It's not a proposal that anyone with authority (h/t Bill Raftery) has ever put on the table. Separating from the NCAA means starting over with new rules; it doesn't mean no further athletic competition against non-P5 teams.

What would likely happen if the P5 separated from the NCAA is that the P5 would start its own 64-team tournament, with a tournament committee, and the committee would invite non-P5 teams to participate. Non-P5 teams like Gonzaga, Villanova, Georgetown, Wichita State, VCU, etc. would choose to play in that tournament instead of an NCAA tournament that doesn't include P5 teams. If the NCAA tried to stop them from playing in the new tournament, those basketball powers would sue the NCAA and win. Or perhaps those schools would also leave the NCAA, and the P5's new athletic organization would admit non-P5 members.

Then in that case the G5 would be out of the college football business by suicide....and the popularity of G5 sports as a whole would free fall.

If the P5 want to seperate in football then the G5 need to be united and make it all sports.....or they die together.

Being led around by the nose in exchange for a basketball payday beating without football is not a workable G5 model.

Why would you want to throw basketball under the bus as well? It makes no sense. If the P5 separate, you fight for playoff access in the courts because at that point you have nothing to lose. They can separate for most all of their games, but if the G5 can still access the same playoff, the G5 can survive at the top level. If that fails.....


The G5 would need to reorganize like FCS into small very regional conferences. Gotta cut expenses to match the realities of significantly lower revenue. If they cant gain access to the P5 playoff, then many may drop to FCS because they see little point in maintaining 85 scholarship football with limited support and no media revenue.

At some point, after the divorce is final, you have to stop taking their garbage out for them even if they let you sleep with them every once in a while.

If they seperate in football, walk away. Just walk away and start trying to build G5 into its own league in all sports.

Will you beat them? No. But you can earn more money than they allowed you to earn and run your own business and make your own rules.

And sometimes, when they are playing with themselves in a stub tournament, or playing those extra road games they will miss you a little.

(07-08-2015 10:06 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 04:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 01:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 01:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 12:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  No. They'd just find a new little guy, be it Iowa St. or Wake Forest or Northwestern. And brackets are basically about gambling, not about unknown schools.

The "P5 only basketball tournament" is a straw man. It's not a proposal that anyone with authority (h/t Bill Raftery) has ever put on the table. Separating from the NCAA means starting over with new rules; it doesn't mean no further athletic competition against non-P5 teams.

What would likely happen if the P5 separated from the NCAA is that the P5 would start its own 64-team tournament, with a tournament committee, and the committee would invite non-P5 teams to participate. Non-P5 teams like Gonzaga, Villanova, Georgetown, Wichita State, VCU, etc. would choose to play in that tournament instead of an NCAA tournament that doesn't include P5 teams. If the NCAA tried to stop them from playing in the new tournament, those basketball powers would sue the NCAA and win. Or perhaps those schools would also leave the NCAA, and the P5's new athletic organization would admit non-P5 members.

Then in that case the G5 would be out of the college football business by suicide....and the popularity of G5 sports as a whole would free fall.

If the P5 want to seperate in football then the G5 need to be united and make it all sports.....or they die together.

Being led around by the nose in exchange for a basketball payday beating without football is not a workable G5 model.

Why would you want to throw basketball under the bus as well? It makes no sense. If the P5 separate, you fight for playoff access in the courts because at that point you have nothing to lose. They can separate for most all of their games, but if the G5 can still access the same playoff, the G5 can survive at the top level. If that fails.....


The G5 would need to reorganize like FCS into small very regional conferences. Gotta cut expenses to match the realities of significantly lower revenue. If they cant gain access to the P5 playoff, then many may drop to FCS because they see little point in maintaining 85 scholarship football with limited support and no media revenue.

At some point, after the divorce is final, you have to stop taking their garbage out for them even if they let you sleep with them every once in a while.

If they seperate in football, walk away. Just walk away and start trying to build G5 into its own league in all sports.

Will you beat them? No. But you can earn more money than they allowed you to earn and run your own business and make your own rules.

And sometimes, when they are playing with themselves in a stub tournament, or playing those extra road games they will miss you a little.

Like I said, it is not easy to break away when you have some powerful schools that are G5 which could cause an outcry. For the P5 to cleanly break away from the rest? They need to create spots for the top G5 and FCS schools to be part of this.

(07-08-2015 10:06 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  At some point, after the divorce is final, you have to stop taking their garbage out for them even if they let you sleep with them every once in a while.

If they seperate in football, walk away. Just walk away and start trying to build G5 into its own league in all sports.

Will you beat them? No. But you can earn more money than they allowed you to earn and run your own business and make your own rules.

And sometimes, when they are playing with themselves in a stub tournament, or playing those extra road games they will miss you a little.

I agree. I think the G5 need to get together, hire 1 person to be commissioner, re-assign teams to smaller regional conferences for Olympic sports, and keep bad FCS teams from moving up. A united G5 would be much better managed, and have much more leverage as a group.