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Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
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NoDak Offline
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Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
NMSU has won four consecutive bids to the dance. It will be heavily favored for the next. Each bid is worth about $1.6 mill over five years. Right now, the NCAA money goes to the WAC, and is divided equaĺly. If NMSU wins next year, and then leaves, the WAC would lose its autobid, and NMSU will have sole rights to all its bid money, which will total $4 mill for the rest of their life plus NMSU is entitled to its share of exit fees, which will be over $1 mill. Look for NMSU to leave the WAC next year, as waiting two years will see Grand Canyon eligible, and the WAC keeps their autobid even with only seven teams. NMSU can use that money.

UMKC might have this as a strategy too, as they can move back to the Summit any time, but it hasn't worked out. The WAC waived its entrance fees and paid exit fees from the Summit.

See UMKC and NMSU as no votes on expansion. NMSU probably has open invites to the Big Sky and Summit, so they have a conference to go to.

Perhaps I'm much too cynical. But DII call ups should have happened by now, and now its too late. The WAC appears to have a death wish.

It might even be in NMSU's interests to decline a Sun Belt offer until next year, with the Sun Belt offering up some lame excuse that the votes are not there when they were.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2015 10:37 PM by NoDak.)
07-05-2015 10:25 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
The problem facing the other WAC members is also the one thing which is protecting their auto bid. There's nowhere for them to go. Nobody wants these leftovers. Who wants to make room for Utah Valley, Chicago State or UT-RGV? Or Cal State Bakersfield??

I would love it if the Big West added Seattle and Grand Canyon. And if we added Bakersfield to get to 12 I'm okay with that too. Getting into the Phoenix and Seattle markets would pay off in the long run.
07-05-2015 11:09 PM
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stever20 Online
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
The thing about it is there is a 2 year grace period. With where Grand Canyon is now, they would be transitioned by the time NMSU left-takes 4 years.
year 1- 2013-14 season
year 2- 2014-15 season
year 3- 2015-16 season(this year)

So Grand Canyon is 100% transitioned with the 2 year grace period.

So the WAC wouldn't lose the auto bid if NMSU left. Not at all.
07-05-2015 11:54 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-05-2015 11:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The thing about it is there is a 2 year grace period. With where Grand Canyon is now, they would be transitioned by the time NMSU left-takes 4 years.
year 1- 2013-14 season
year 2- 2014-15 season
year 3- 2015-16 season(this year)

So Grand Canyon is 100% transitioned with the 2 year grace period.

So the WAC wouldn't lose the auto bid if NMSU left. Not at all.

Just looked up the NCAA DI manual but can't find the reference. Before, thought a conference autobid for a specific sport had a two year grace period, but a conference which didn't meet seven members for a conference and a mens basketball autobid would no longer be a voting conference. Is not a multisport conference threshold (no grace period) much greater than a single sport threshold ?

Edit:
Section 20 addresses multisport conferences. The WAC would have a two year grace period as stever20 said.

But if NMSU left, would UMKC leave too?
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2015 01:59 AM by NoDak.)
07-06-2015 12:49 AM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
My initial reaction was even if this was true, why would NMSU be interested in such a d!ck move? just to keep all the rights fees to themselves?

Yes the OLD WAC did almost the same thing to NMSU , but the WAC found a way to survive.

But I guess now its more of the zombie WAC, whatever it once was has already died and now its just a rotting corpse with the WAC name.

But anyway, any move NMSU makes should be in its long term best interest, not a quick cash grab that could burn bridges for them later.
07-06-2015 06:04 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
Where would NMSU go next year? The Sunbelt doesn't want them. The WAC is their only option. Beside, any other conference they go to would actually cost them more in $$ and travel time to students. The WAC give the student-athletes less time on the road as UMKC has found out. I don't think even if NMSU left that UMKC would go back to the Summit because the WAC really helps the students spend less time on the road.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2015 02:47 PM by MWC Tex.)
07-06-2015 09:26 AM
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chargeradio Offline
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Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
Actually about half the Sun Belt doesn't want NMSU (basically everyone east of the Mississippi). The Sun Belt recently raised their entry fees too.

Even if the Sun Belt could get NMSU added, this move does nothing for them in football, so the Sun Belt likely adds one more in football that will certainly be in the Eastern Time Zone. Of course that gives the Sun Belt 13 members so you can probably count on another non-football member unless if UT-Arlington or Little Rock leaves.

It's also a huge gamble because of the rest of the WAC decides to admit someone, NMSU loses the credits and has to pay an exit fee.
07-06-2015 12:33 PM
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DoubleAggie Offline
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
NMSU is on record as seeking an all sports home, mostly for branding purposes.

It's not to screw the WAC, but every school has to look out for their programs.

The Sun Belt has a lot of issues: two olympic onlys, two football onlys and difficult
numbers of schools for both olympic and football schedules.

Adding NMSU and partnering them with UTA would make sense by getting the Sun Belt
to twelve olympics with two divisions and having travel partners about as close as can be otherwise.

But that decision didn't happen in FY15 so the other issues and internal politics are at work.

The WAC does have some potential.
The big city locations ( Seattle, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Chicago, Kansas City )
The growth potential for GCU, UVU, and RGV.

The biggest concern I have about the WAC is Chicago State's athletic programs in general.

The MBB arena appears nearly empty for every game I've seen on line.
07-06-2015 01:05 PM
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Crump1 Offline
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 12:33 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Actually about half the Sun Belt doesn't want NMSU (basically everyone east of the Mississippi). The Sun Belt recently raised their entry fees too.

Even if the Sun Belt could get NMSU added, this move does nothing for them in football, so the Sun Belt likely adds one more in football that will certainly be in the Eastern Time Zone. Of course that gives the Sun Belt 13 members so you can probably count on another non-football member unless if UT-Arlington or Little Rock leaves.

It's also a huge gamble because of the rest of the WAC decides to admit someone, NMSU loses the credits and has to pay an exit fee.
Most likely is that NMSU comes aboard for all sports in the SBC, a team is added in the east and Idaho leaves. Basketball and baseball will be improved with the moves while football doesn't suffer because Idaho was not helping.
07-06-2015 01:28 PM
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stever20 Online
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
I don't think NMSU added to the SBC is a lock at all. The distance there is quite considerable. I think it's probably more likely that NMSU gets dropped for football than added for all sports.
07-06-2015 01:35 PM
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Crump1 Offline
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
Not a lock but much more likely than you think.
07-06-2015 02:05 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 09:26 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Where would NMSU go next year? The Sunbelt doesn't want them. The WAC is their only option. Beside, any other conference they go to would actually cost them more in $$ and travel time to students. The WAC give the student-athletes less time on the road as UMKC has found out. I don't think even if NMSU left that UMKC would go back to the Summit because the WAC really helps the students spend less time on the road.


UMKC spends less time flying to Las Cruces, Edinburg, Bakersfield and Seattle than they would traveling around in the Summit again? I find that really difficult to believe.
07-06-2015 03:36 PM
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
NMSU is just doing what every other WAC member (and pretty much every other D-I school) is doing: trying to improve its conference situation. But like every other WAC member, NMSU has no better place to go. After the recent comments of the EKU faculty president that the Sun Belt couldn't reach a consensus last month to add NMSU, I'm more convinced than ever that NMSU doesn't have the votes and won't get the votes from the eastern Sun Belt schools to land an all-sports invitation. That doesn't mean NMSU should stop trying, but at the same time it's in NMSU's best interest to do what it can to make the WAC a better and stronger conference home.
07-06-2015 03:38 PM
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think NMSU added to the SBC is a lock at all. The distance there is quite considerable.

NMSU going in all sports reduces travel for the Sun Belt because of division play.
True, NMSU would be the west outlier but Sun Belt travel would still be easier and better than C-USA's
and whittling down the 20 game conference schedule would help schedule congestion and improve OOC flexibility.

NMSU is not the end all be all but the move makes sense.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2015 03:42 PM by DoubleAggie.)
07-06-2015 03:40 PM
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 03:36 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 09:26 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Where would NMSU go next year? The Sunbelt doesn't want them. The WAC is their only option. Beside, any other conference they go to would actually cost them more in $$ and travel time to students. The WAC give the student-athletes less time on the road as UMKC has found out. I don't think even if NMSU left that UMKC would go back to the Summit because the WAC really helps the students spend less time on the road.


UMKC spends less time flying to Las Cruces, Edinburg, Bakersfield and Seattle than they would traveling around in the Summit again? I find that really difficult to believe.

The big benefit of the big city conference ( WAC ) is airline service.

Seattle, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, KC, Chicago all have easy access and lots of direct flights.

Las Cruces is 45 minutes from the El Paso airport so that's comparable to cross town city drive.

I'm not familiar with Edinburg or Bakersfield air travel, but even so...

I don't know about the expense of travel, but the ease of travel may actually be good for the WAC.
07-06-2015 03:47 PM
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 03:40 PM)DoubleAggie Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think NMSU added to the SBC is a lock at all. The distance there is quite considerable.

NMSU going in all sports reduces travel for the Sun Belt because of division play.
True, NMSU would be the west outlier but Sun Belt travel would still be easier and better than C-USA's
and whittling down the 20 game conference schedule would help schedule congestion and improve OOC flexibility.

NMSU is not the end all be all but the move makes sense.

except for the fact that if they go divisions- you would have 4 of the 6 eastern schools having to travel out to Las Cruces each year, which isn't good. And that's not what they would want at all I would think. Also, adding NMSU means they would be at 12 for basketball, limiting the adds for all sports on the eastern school.
07-06-2015 04:26 PM
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 03:47 PM)DoubleAggie Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 03:36 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 09:26 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Where would NMSU go next year? The Sunbelt doesn't want them. The WAC is their only option. Beside, any other conference they go to would actually cost them more in $$ and travel time to students. The WAC give the student-athletes less time on the road as UMKC has found out. I don't think even if NMSU left that UMKC would go back to the Summit because the WAC really helps the students spend less time on the road.


UMKC spends less time flying to Las Cruces, Edinburg, Bakersfield and Seattle than they would traveling around in the Summit again? I find that really difficult to believe.

The big benefit of the big city conference ( WAC ) is airline service.

Seattle, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, KC, Chicago all have easy access and lots of direct flights.

Las Cruces is 45 minutes from the El Paso airport so that's comparable to cross town city drive.

I'm not familiar with Edinburg or Bakersfield air travel, but even so...

I don't know about the expense of travel, but the ease of travel may actually be good for the WAC.

It is definitely a selling point, especially when taking into account the delays, uncertainty and risk added by the winter weather factor. A January bus ride from KC going north or east can be a lot more dicey than a January flight from KC going south or west.

As for air travel to Edinburg and Bakersfield:

- McAllen International Airport which also serves Edinburg (about 12 miles from the UT-RGV main campus) has direct jet service from Dallas, Houston and Las Vegas.

- Meadows Field Airport which serves Bakersfield (about 5 miles from the CSUB campus) has direct jet service from San Francisco, Denver, Phoenix and Houston.

A September American Airlines flight from Kansas City to Bakersfield takes 5 hours and 10 minutes with a stopover in Phoenix and costs $496.

A September American Airlines flight from Kansas City to McAllen takes 4 hours and 10 minutes with a stopover in Dallas and costs $304.
07-06-2015 04:39 PM
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 04:26 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 03:40 PM)DoubleAggie Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think NMSU added to the SBC is a lock at all. The distance there is quite considerable.

NMSU going in all sports reduces travel for the Sun Belt because of division play.
True, NMSU would be the west outlier but Sun Belt travel would still be easier and better than C-USA's
and whittling down the 20 game conference schedule would help schedule congestion and improve OOC flexibility.

NMSU is not the end all be all but the move makes sense.

except for the fact that if they go divisions- you would have 4 of the 6 eastern schools having to travel out to Las Cruces each year, which isn't good. And that's not what they would want at all I would think. Also, adding NMSU means they would be at 12 for basketball, limiting the adds for all sports on the eastern school.

As Karl Benson has said repeatedly when asked about this subject, the Sun Belt is already ideally set up for a western division in Olympic sports, with two schools each in Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana. The problem is that there are only five all-sports members in the east. The ideal solution is to add a travel partner for Appalachian State, which is why Eastern Kentucky and Coastal Carolina are under consideration.
07-06-2015 04:43 PM
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 04:43 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 04:26 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 03:40 PM)DoubleAggie Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think NMSU added to the SBC is a lock at all. The distance there is quite considerable.

NMSU going in all sports reduces travel for the Sun Belt because of division play.
True, NMSU would be the west outlier but Sun Belt travel would still be easier and better than C-USA's
and whittling down the 20 game conference schedule would help schedule congestion and improve OOC flexibility.

NMSU is not the end all be all but the move makes sense.

except for the fact that if they go divisions- you would have 4 of the 6 eastern schools having to travel out to Las Cruces each year, which isn't good. And that's not what they would want at all I would think. Also, adding NMSU means they would be at 12 for basketball, limiting the adds for all sports on the eastern school.

As Karl Benson has said repeatedly when asked about this subject, the Sun Belt is already ideally set up for a western division in Olympic sports, with two schools each in Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana. The problem is that there are only five all-sports members in the east. The ideal solution is to add a travel partner for Appalachian State, which is why Eastern Kentucky and Coastal Carolina are under consideration.

Exactly. And it's not like NMSU can force the issue at all.
07-06-2015 04:44 PM
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RE: Is NMSU working towards the WAC's death?
(07-06-2015 04:43 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The ideal solution is to add a travel partner for Appalachian State, which is why Eastern Kentucky and Coastal Carolina are under consideration.

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