(07-02-2015 06:18 PM)Stick4489 Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 08:44 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It does raise a lot of questions.

There is no good reason for moving that sort of money in this manner.

Says you.

Exactly, that's why I said it. If you don't belive it read it again.

(07-02-2015 05:04 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 04:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 01:13 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It is CASH SMUGGLING if you are carrying more than $10,000 without proof of where the money originated.

They do not have to find him guilty of anything else, if he is traveling with more than $10,000 and he can not provide proof that the money has been recorded within the financial institutions, it is cash smuggling.

Cash smuggling laws exist to ensure drug dealers can not move money back to foreign countries as cash.

Its not that big of a deal. If the cash is legit, he will be able to provide proof that he owns the cash, and will get it back. As long as there is a legit trail to where the money originated (a financial institution or similar entity of record, such as a casino) then there is no problem. He would not (or should not) have had the money confiscated if he had such a document on him at the time. (Such as a bank withdrawal receipt that could then be easily confirmed, or a casino 1099-G.)

Wrong.

There is no limit on the amount of cash you can carry. But if you have over $10k you have to declare it.

Im' not sure what you believe is wrong above. Also note I never said there was a limit on the cash you could carry. The LAW SAYS you must provide proof if you carry over $10K. If you are carrying more than $10K and you do not have proof of that the cash has been reported through a financial institution then it is CASH SMUGGLING. Th esecond part to qualify for cash smuggling is that you intend to leave the country. Which is why you hear about these things at TSA checkpoints.

This is also different from the standard operation of declaring. Declaring simply says you have it on you. If you have more than $10K on you, declaring aint going to cut it.

This doesnt just cover cash, but bearer bonds and practically any other instrument that can be passed from one person to the next where it belongs to the bearer.

There's other things that come into play when you are dealing with cash amounts above $10K. You can not purchase a car for more than $10K in cash without it being reported. You can not deposit more than $10K in cash into the bank without it being reported. Once reported, you may have to then show that the money had been reported previously through financial institutions. All are very easy to do for most people.

The problem is the law is unconstitutional

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(07-02-2015 06:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 05:04 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 04:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 01:13 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It is CASH SMUGGLING if you are carrying more than $10,000 without proof of where the money originated.

They do not have to find him guilty of anything else, if he is traveling with more than $10,000 and he can not provide proof that the money has been recorded within the financial institutions, it is cash smuggling.

Cash smuggling laws exist to ensure drug dealers can not move money back to foreign countries as cash.

Its not that big of a deal. If the cash is legit, he will be able to provide proof that he owns the cash, and will get it back. As long as there is a legit trail to where the money originated (a financial institution or similar entity of record, such as a casino) then there is no problem. He would not (or should not) have had the money confiscated if he had such a document on him at the time. (Such as a bank withdrawal receipt that could then be easily confirmed, or a casino 1099-G.)

Wrong.

There is no limit on the amount of cash you can carry. But if you have over $10k you have to declare it.

Im' not sure what you believe is wrong above. Also note I never said there was a limit on the cash you could carry. The LAW SAYS you must provide proof if you carry over $10K. If you are carrying more than $10K and you do not have proof of that the cash has been reported through a financial institution then it is CASH SMUGGLING. Th esecond part to qualify for cash smuggling is that you intend to leave the country. Which is why you hear about these things at TSA checkpoints.

This is also different from the standard operation of declaring. Declaring simply says you have it on you. If you have more than $10K on you, declaring aint going to cut it.

This doesnt just cover cash, but bearer bonds and practically any other instrument that can be passed from one person to the next where it belongs to the bearer.

There's other things that come into play when you are dealing with cash amounts above $10K. You can not purchase a car for more than $10K in cash without it being reported. You can not deposit more than $10K in cash into the bank without it being reported. Once reported, you may have to then show that the money had been reported previously through financial institutions. All are very easy to do for most people.

You don't have to carry proof of where you got the money from when carrying it overseas. You don't have to show that money was reported previously through financial institutions.

If you've got some link I'd like to see it, but I think you are just totally wrong on this.

Try it and see what happens.

Its the law.

(07-02-2015 06:33 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 05:04 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 04:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 01:13 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It is CASH SMUGGLING if you are carrying more than $10,000 without proof of where the money originated.

They do not have to find him guilty of anything else, if he is traveling with more than $10,000 and he can not provide proof that the money has been recorded within the financial institutions, it is cash smuggling.

Cash smuggling laws exist to ensure drug dealers can not move money back to foreign countries as cash.

Its not that big of a deal. If the cash is legit, he will be able to provide proof that he owns the cash, and will get it back. As long as there is a legit trail to where the money originated (a financial institution or similar entity of record, such as a casino) then there is no problem. He would not (or should not) have had the money confiscated if he had such a document on him at the time. (Such as a bank withdrawal receipt that could then be easily confirmed, or a casino 1099-G.)

Wrong.

There is no limit on the amount of cash you can carry. But if you have over $10k you have to declare it.

Im' not sure what you believe is wrong above. Also note I never said there was a limit on the cash you could carry. The LAW SAYS you must provide proof if you carry over $10K. If you are carrying more than $10K and you do not have proof of that the cash has been reported through a financial institution then it is CASH SMUGGLING. Th esecond part to qualify for cash smuggling is that you intend to leave the country. Which is why you hear about these things at TSA checkpoints.

This is also different from the standard operation of declaring. Declaring simply says you have it on you. If you have more than $10K on you, declaring aint going to cut it.

This doesnt just cover cash, but bearer bonds and practically any other instrument that can be passed from one person to the next where it belongs to the bearer.

There's other things that come into play when you are dealing with cash amounts above $10K. You can not purchase a car for more than $10K in cash without it being reported. You can not deposit more than $10K in cash into the bank without it being reported. Once reported, you may have to then show that the money had been reported previously through financial institutions. All are very easy to do for most people.

The problem is the law is unconstitutional

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I havent seen where it has been shot down yet. And for the most part, I am totally against civil forfeitures in the way they are currently handled. So I dont want people to confuse what I am saying.

In this case, people were saying the government kept a mans money without charging him with a crime. Thats not the case. He is guilty of cash smuggling. He broke the law. He can get his money back when he provides proof.

I dont have a problem with the cash smuggling law because it is used to deter tax evasion and drug dealings. And because its not really a burden on those people to do it. I've had to do it. It wasnt a big deal. They didnt confiscate my cash.

A similar law to cash smuggling is that of driving without proof of insurance in Alabama. If you are driving in Alabama, you must be able to SHOW proof of insurance while you are on the road. This is different from actually having insurance. You can have insurance, but if you can not show proof of it when you are pulled over, you will get fined $500 for failing to show proof. If it happens a second time, the fine is $1000.

(07-02-2015 06:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 05:04 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 04:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 01:13 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It is CASH SMUGGLING if you are carrying more than $10,000 without proof of where the money originated.

They do not have to find him guilty of anything else, if he is traveling with more than $10,000 and he can not provide proof that the money has been recorded within the financial institutions, it is cash smuggling.

Cash smuggling laws exist to ensure drug dealers can not move money back to foreign countries as cash.

Its not that big of a deal. If the cash is legit, he will be able to provide proof that he owns the cash, and will get it back. As long as there is a legit trail to where the money originated (a financial institution or similar entity of record, such as a casino) then there is no problem. He would not (or should not) have had the money confiscated if he had such a document on him at the time. (Such as a bank withdrawal receipt that could then be easily confirmed, or a casino 1099-G.)

Wrong.

There is no limit on the amount of cash you can carry. But if you have over $10k you have to declare it.

Im' not sure what you believe is wrong above. Also note I never said there was a limit on the cash you could carry. The LAW SAYS you must provide proof if you carry over $10K. If you are carrying more than $10K and you do not have proof of that the cash has been reported through a financial institution then it is CASH SMUGGLING. Th esecond part to qualify for cash smuggling is that you intend to leave the country. Which is why you hear about these things at TSA checkpoints.

This is also different from the standard operation of declaring. Declaring simply says you have it on you. If you have more than $10K on you, declaring aint going to cut it.

This doesnt just cover cash, but bearer bonds and practically any other instrument that can be passed from one person to the next where it belongs to the bearer.

There's other things that come into play when you are dealing with cash amounts above $10K. You can not purchase a car for more than $10K in cash without it being reported. You can not deposit more than $10K in cash into the bank without it being reported. Once reported, you may have to then show that the money had been reported previously through financial institutions. All are very easy to do for most people.

You don't have to carry proof of where you got the money from when carrying it overseas. You don't have to show that money was reported previously through financial institutions.

If you've got some link I'd like to see it, but I think you are just totally wrong on this.

http://www.ice.gov/bulk-cash-smuggling-center/faq

Title 31 U.S.C. § 5332 (Bulk Cash Smuggling) makes it a crime to smuggle or attempt to smuggle more than $10,000 in currency or monetary instruments into or out of the United States, with the specific intent to evade the U.S. currency reporting requirements codified in Title 31 U.S.C. §§ 5316 and 5317.

Does bulk cash smuggling always occur at the border?

Not necessarily. The statute that governs bulk cash smuggling does require proof that a suspect intended to cross the border. However, criminal organizations rely on complex transportation and smuggling networks to move and launder their illicit proceeds.

You can't smuggle between 2 states since we ditched the Articles of Confederation. We have free movement.

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You guys are just talking past one another. You are both right.

You CAN travel internationally with more than $9,999 or $10,000 but it must be declared. That's what he is saying.

Failing to declare it is considered smuggling and you will get in trouble for it.

The real point, as I understood it to be, is that declaring it is one serious pain in the ass, enough to rise to the level of ' seriously bro you don't want to do that.' or 'you can't.'. You can see the form online that must be filed out. The Declaration itself isn't a big deal but have fun depositing that, especially if you were working in particular countries. I've had two banks tell me to leave because they didn't want to run afoul of Patriot Act banking regulations, regardless of wether or not I was legit. If you deposit it with a corporate account, the FCPA has some more things to say about that. This is to say nothing of the flag that goes up with the IRS.

The reverse is true if you are trying to take that money out of the country. The FCPA can cause a lot of headaches. The IRS will also crawl up your ass.

Just the investigations and injuries for some can ruin folks.

Declaring cash is like dawning a turban and jumping the fence at the White House.

(07-02-2015 09:28 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  You can't smuggle between 2 states since we ditched the Articles of Confederation. We have free movement.

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No, and the statute says you have to provide proof of the intent to cross the border. But it also states that criminal organizations rely on complex transportation and smuggling networks to move and launder their illicit proceeds. So they are probably operating in a gray area where they can say "at an airport which allows international travel" is enough proof to say they could have had an intent to cross the border. But the specifics of that I dont know.

(07-02-2015 08:54 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 08:50 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 08:44 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It does raise a lot of questions.

There is no good reason for moving that sort of money in this manner.

That's not really the point though, is it? It's his money. Assuming it was legit, yes, I know that's a big assumption these days, he'll probably just do a bank transfer next time.

Yea, but given the "totality of the circumstance' that is the point.

No reasonable person travels with that sort of money on them. No reputable merchant requires that you deliver cash in this way, in fact, no individual seller operating legally does.

It's so off the wall that it gives rise to enough suspicion that a reasonable person would think he was doing this to commit some form of crime.

That is irrelevant. And not only that, sometimes you can get big discounts when you wave CASH in front of the nose of a seller.

This is unconstitutional bull5h!t.

In order to get your money back. You have to get arrested for something. The arrest allows it to go through a process where a judge can return it. Without the arrest, you have to depend on beaurocrats.

(07-02-2015 09:28 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 06:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 05:04 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 04:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 01:13 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It is CASH SMUGGLING if you are carrying more than $10,000 without proof of where the money originated.

They do not have to find him guilty of anything else, if he is traveling with more than $10,000 and he can not provide proof that the money has been recorded within the financial institutions, it is cash smuggling.

Cash smuggling laws exist to ensure drug dealers can not move money back to foreign countries as cash.

Its not that big of a deal. If the cash is legit, he will be able to provide proof that he owns the cash, and will get it back. As long as there is a legit trail to where the money originated (a financial institution or similar entity of record, such as a casino) then there is no problem. He would not (or should not) have had the money confiscated if he had such a document on him at the time. (Such as a bank withdrawal receipt that could then be easily confirmed, or a casino 1099-G.)

Wrong.

There is no limit on the amount of cash you can carry. But if you have over $10k you have to declare it.

Im' not sure what you believe is wrong above. Also note I never said there was a limit on the cash you could carry. The LAW SAYS you must provide proof if you carry over $10K. If you are carrying more than $10K and you do not have proof of that the cash has been reported through a financial institution then it is CASH SMUGGLING. Th esecond part to qualify for cash smuggling is that you intend to leave the country. Which is why you hear about these things at TSA checkpoints.

This is also different from the standard operation of declaring. Declaring simply says you have it on you. If you have more than $10K on you, declaring aint going to cut it.

This doesnt just cover cash, but bearer bonds and practically any other instrument that can be passed from one person to the next where it belongs to the bearer.

There's other things that come into play when you are dealing with cash amounts above $10K. You can not purchase a car for more than $10K in cash without it being reported. You can not deposit more than $10K in cash into the bank without it being reported. Once reported, you may have to then show that the money had been reported previously through financial institutions. All are very easy to do for most people.

You don't have to carry proof of where you got the money from when carrying it overseas. You don't have to show that money was reported previously through financial institutions.

If you've got some link I'd like to see it, but I think you are just totally wrong on this.

http://www.ice.gov/bulk-cash-smuggling-center/faq

Title 31 U.S.C. § 5332 (Bulk Cash Smuggling) makes it a crime to smuggle or attempt to smuggle more than $10,000 in currency or monetary instruments into or out of the United States, with the specific intent to evade the U.S. currency reporting requirements codified in Title 31 U.S.C. §§ 5316 and 5317.

Does bulk cash smuggling always occur at the border?

Not necessarily. The statute that governs bulk cash smuggling does require proof that a suspect intended to cross the border. However, criminal organizations rely on complex transportation and smuggling networks to move and launder their illicit proceeds.

Its a crime if you are trying to avoid reporting requirements. Its not smuggling if you declare it in compliance with the reporting requirements. As noted, then you get questioned, so its nice if you don't have to declare it.

One thing someone else said was wrong and I think this is a new law. The reporting requirement now applies to a family group travelling together. So you can't give $9,999 to your spouse and each of your two kids and carry $39,996 out without reporting. That would be a violation.

(07-03-2015 10:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 09:28 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 06:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 05:04 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 04:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  Wrong.

There is no limit on the amount of cash you can carry. But if you have over $10k you have to declare it.

Im' not sure what you believe is wrong above. Also note I never said there was a limit on the cash you could carry. The LAW SAYS you must provide proof if you carry over $10K. If you are carrying more than $10K and you do not have proof of that the cash has been reported through a financial institution then it is CASH SMUGGLING. Th esecond part to qualify for cash smuggling is that you intend to leave the country. Which is why you hear about these things at TSA checkpoints.

This is also different from the standard operation of declaring. Declaring simply says you have it on you. If you have more than $10K on you, declaring aint going to cut it.

This doesnt just cover cash, but bearer bonds and practically any other instrument that can be passed from one person to the next where it belongs to the bearer.

There's other things that come into play when you are dealing with cash amounts above $10K. You can not purchase a car for more than $10K in cash without it being reported. You can not deposit more than $10K in cash into the bank without it being reported. Once reported, you may have to then show that the money had been reported previously through financial institutions. All are very easy to do for most people.

You don't have to carry proof of where you got the money from when carrying it overseas. You don't have to show that money was reported previously through financial institutions.

If you've got some link I'd like to see it, but I think you are just totally wrong on this.

http://www.ice.gov/bulk-cash-smuggling-center/faq

Title 31 U.S.C. § 5332 (Bulk Cash Smuggling) makes it a crime to smuggle or attempt to smuggle more than $10,000 in currency or monetary instruments into or out of the United States, with the specific intent to evade the U.S. currency reporting requirements codified in Title 31 U.S.C. §§ 5316 and 5317.

Does bulk cash smuggling always occur at the border?

Not necessarily. The statute that governs bulk cash smuggling does require proof that a suspect intended to cross the border. However, criminal organizations rely on complex transportation and smuggling networks to move and launder their illicit proceeds.

Its a crime if you are trying to avoid reporting requirements. Its not smuggling if you declare it in compliance with the reporting requirements. As noted, then you get questioned, so its nice if you don't have to declare it.

One thing someone else said was wrong and I think this is a new law. The reporting requirement now applies to a family group travelling together. So you can't give $9,999 to your spouse and each of your two kids and carry $39,996 out without reporting. That would be a violation.

Which this person, nor the kid who was smoking pot traveling to UCF with $15K on him, had done.

Like I said, its not a big deal. Declare it. And have proof from your bank of the withdrawal, and you shouldnt have a problem. If you do have a problem, that would be wrong. But spare me the martyr stories of people who wreak of pot, are traveling with excess of $10K in cash on them, and cant prove where they got the money.