(07-01-2015 09:18 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  My goal would be to see 80-90 Power Football Teams and an extra 120-140 or so among the other hoops schools that do not play high level Football. Above the line you stay in the NCAA Championships and collect the $$$. Below that you merge with D-2 or stay in the FCS

I know we have a few exceptions like Belmont, FGCU, etc...that should change conferences and remain...but this is my first crack at my Mendoza Line for who can qualify for the NCAA Championship.

P5 Conferences
AAC
Big East
MWC (NM St?)
A-10 (Siena, Iona?)
Big West
Colonial (take Belmont and FGCU?)
CUSA (take UAB and Murray St?)
MAC
Mo Valley(ND St?)
Sun Belt (SFA, Sam Houston St?)
West Coast

The Ivy League, Horizon and the America East are three I wonder about...I think they should probably be above the line...they are basically like the Colonial and Sun Belt.

Thoughts?

Last year's league standings
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/standings

You aren't trimming the football to top 90.
Sun Belt has one team ranked below ninety and its a one bid league.

I had proposed a Mendoza line last year, with 12 conferences above and 20 below. I included the P6 (football P5 + Big East) plus the A-10, AAC, MWC, MVC, WCC and CUSA. But I didn't exclude the rest from the tournament.

Instead, I proposed that they finish their regular season a week earlier than the top conferences, and have their conference champions plus 12 at large teams play two rounds to produce 8 winners to advance to fill out the field of 64. Their seeds in the round of 64 would depend on how strong or weak those 8 teams were.

That gives the little guys a real tournament experience (as opposed to just being cannon fodder for the top seeds). It also means the #15 and #16 seeds that the best teams have to face in the first round probably won't have RPI's above 200 (ironically, the baseball Mendoza line).

How the money gets divided up is another question. If every D-I school weren't guaranteed a windfall at the expense of the schools who truly belong there, I imagine a lot of them would opt to move down in class.

(03-18-2016 09:28 AM)ken d Wrote:  If every D-I school weren't guaranteed a windfall at the expense of the schools who truly belong there, I imagine a lot of them would opt to move down in class.

Just to put things in terms of dollars, a credit is worth about $250,000 per year for 6 years. So a 10 team league that goes 1-and-done every year is collecting $1.5M, split ten ways is $150,000 per school per year.

So cutting out the bottom ten conferences creates a pool of $15M per year.

MAke it 20 conferences, that's $30M a year, plus a few stray credits earned by successful Cinderellas. So each of the P5 leagues is looking at a $6M windfall. That's not a lot of juice for the amount of squeezin' to be done in kicking out the bottom third to two-thirds of Division I.

(There's also a lot of tournament money that goes through the NCAA in much less transparent ways, but a lot of that also goes to the big conferences in one way or another.

Again, what is gained?

(03-18-2016 11:29 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Again, what is gained?

If you trim 150 or so teams it means more money for those teams/leagues that actually put more than 412 people in the stands.

(03-18-2016 06:56 AM)MJG Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 09:18 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  My goal would be to see 80-90 Power Football Teams and an extra 120-140 or so among the other hoops schools that do not play high level Football. Above the line you stay in the NCAA Championships and collect the $$$. Below that you merge with D-2 or stay in the FCS

I know we have a few exceptions like Belmont, FGCU, etc...that should change conferences and remain...but this is my first crack at my Mendoza Line for who can qualify for the NCAA Championship.

P5 Conferences
AAC
Big East
MWC (NM St?)
A-10 (Siena, Iona?)
Big West
Colonial (take Belmont and FGCU?)
CUSA (take UAB and Murray St?)
MAC
Mo Valley(ND St?)
Sun Belt (SFA, Sam Houston St?)
West Coast

The Ivy League, Horizon and the America East are three I wonder about...I think they should probably be above the line...they are basically like the Colonial and Sun Belt.

Thoughts?

Last year's league standings
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/standings

You aren't trimming the football to top 90.
Sun Belt has one team ranked below ninety and its a one bid league.

Your opinion...not mine

(03-18-2016 01:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 11:29 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Again, what is gained?

If you trim 150 or so teams it means more money for those teams/leagues that actually put more than 412 people in the stands.

But not a lot. I did the math 4 or 5 posts ago. One bid x 6 years = $1.5M. 10 one-bid conferences, $15M. 150 teams is around 15 conferences, and then you're going to get some stray at-large bids and some Sweet 16 runs, so let's say $25M.

$25M divided among the P5 is $5M for each conference. (Just to keep the math simple, let's say the G5 and the Big East, A-10 and whoever else survives is happy just to not get cut out.)

So if you take Canisius behind the barn and shoot them, where does the "more money" for Syracuse come from? Because it's not NCAA tournament credits.

EDIT: And you have all 5 G5 conferences sticking around, so you have 130 or so teams in football, not 80-90.

(03-18-2016 02:09 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 11:29 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Again, what is gained?

If you trim 150 or so teams it means more money for those teams/leagues that actually put more than 412 people in the stands.

But not a lot. I did the math 4 or 5 posts ago. One bid x 6 years = $1.5M. 10 one-bid conferences, $15M. 150 teams is around 15 conferences, and then you're going to get some stray at-large bids and some Sweet 16 runs, so let's say $25M.

$25M divided among the P5 is $5M for each conference. (Just to keep the math simple, let's say the G5 and the Big East, A-10 and whoever else survives is happy just to not get cut out.)

So if you take Canisius behind the barn and shoot them, where does the "more money" for Syracuse come from? Because it's not NCAA tournament credits.

EDIT: And you have all 5 G5 conferences sticking around, so you have 130 or so teams in football, not 80-90.

I would realign football to the top 80-90 programs...the rest fall into 1AA status.

(03-18-2016 01:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 11:29 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Again, what is gained?

If you trim 150 or so teams it means more money for those teams/leagues that actually put more than 412 people in the stands.

That is an opinion that it actually would do that.

My opinion is that it would lower the amount in the long run. The NCAA is so popular BECAUSE of the lower division teams.

(03-18-2016 03:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 11:29 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Again, what is gained?

If you trim 150 or so teams it means more money for those teams/leagues that actually put more than 412 people in the stands.

That is an opinion that it actually would do that.

My opinion is that it would lower the amount in the long run. The NCAA is so popular BECAUSE of the lower division teams.

I don't think so...it would still have David vs Goliath games.

(03-18-2016 03:14 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 11:29 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Again, what is gained?

If you trim 150 or so teams it means more money for those teams/leagues that actually put more than 412 people in the stands.

That is an opinion that it actually would do that.

My opinion is that it would lower the amount in the long run. The NCAA is so popular BECAUSE of the lower division teams.

I don't think so...it would still have David vs Goliath games.

The 9th place team in the Big 12 is not a David.

(03-18-2016 04:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:14 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 11:29 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Again, what is gained?

If you trim 150 or so teams it means more money for those teams/leagues that actually put more than 412 people in the stands.

That is an opinion that it actually would do that.

My opinion is that it would lower the amount in the long run. The NCAA is so popular BECAUSE of the lower division teams.

I don't think so...it would still have David vs Goliath games.

The 9th place team in the Big 12 is not a David.

Read the OP...teams like MTSU, Yale, Valpo could still be in the tourney

(03-18-2016 04:10 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:14 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  If you trim 150 or so teams it means more money for those teams/leagues that actually put more than 412 people in the stands.

That is an opinion that it actually would do that.

My opinion is that it would lower the amount in the long run. The NCAA is so popular BECAUSE of the lower division teams.

I don't think so...it would still have David vs Goliath games.

The 9th place team in the Big 12 is not a David.

Read the OP...teams like MTSU, Yale, Valpo could still be in the tourney

Could...If there is a breakaway, Valpo, yale won't be included.

(03-18-2016 04:16 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:10 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:14 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  That is an opinion that it actually would do that.

My opinion is that it would lower the amount in the long run. The NCAA is so popular BECAUSE of the lower division teams.

I don't think so...it would still have David vs Goliath games.

The 9th place team in the Big 12 is not a David.

Read the OP...teams like MTSU, Yale, Valpo could still be in the tourney

Could...If there is a breakaway, Valpo, yale won't be included.

WTF? Look at my original post...I debated over them and would probably include them

West Virginia wishes the lovely southland was in eligible for your tournament

The University of Denver finished 5th overall in last year's D-I Capital One Cup but would be out of D-I in your scenario...Last year, the Pioneers, undefeated as a Big East conference affiliate member were D-I National Champs in men's lacrosse, knocking out Notre Dame and Maryland to win it, drawing sellout crowds on campus, and 13,000 fans to the NCAA regional in Denver last year. They were #2 in skiing, losing to Colorado and this year, Denver was the NCAA Champion, edging out Utah and Colorado. Denver was #6 in ice hockey last year drawing 5,000 fans a game at a $25 ticket average, and is the #6 seed in this year's tourney. DU was in the final 24 for men's soccer this year, ranked #11 in women's gymnastics this year, and top 30 in men's and women's swimming.

My point here is that some schools are very good D-I schools without football or top notch basketball. Not every team below your Mendoza Line is a sad-sack athletic department.

(03-23-2016 04:33 PM)puck swami Wrote:  The University of Denver finished 5th overall in last year's D-I Capital One Cup but would be out of D-I in your scenario...Last year, the Pioneers, undefeated as a Big East conference affiliate member were D-I National Champs in men's lacrosse, knocking out Notre Dame and Maryland to win it, drawing sellout crowds on campus, and 13,000 fans to the NCAA regional in Denver last year. They were #2 in skiing, losing to Colorado and this year, Denver was the NCAA Champion, edging out Utah and Colorado. Denver was #6 in ice hockey last year drawing 5,000 fans a game at a $25 ticket average, and is the #6 seed in this year's tourney. DU was in the final 24 for men's soccer this year, ranked #11 in women's gymnastics this year, and top 30 in men's and women's swimming.

My point here is that some schools are very good D-I schools without football or top notch basketball. Not every team below your Mendoza Line is a sad-sack athletic department.

Get your bball up to snuff and theres a good chance you become a full member of the Big East.

(03-18-2016 04:16 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:10 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:14 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  That is an opinion that it actually would do that.

My opinion is that it would lower the amount in the long run. The NCAA is so popular BECAUSE of the lower division teams.

I don't think so...it would still have David vs Goliath games.

The 9th place team in the Big 12 is not a David.

Read the OP...teams like MTSU, Yale, Valpo could still be in the tourney

Could...If there is a breakaway, Valpo, yale won't be included.

Actually, Valpo might - just might - get a look by a better conference if they keep up the 26 plus win seasons. There is a conference that will be north of the Mendoza line that could conceivably take them. Its a long shot, but then again, so was Davidson. More 25 plus win seasons plus a Sweet 16 or better in the next few years might get them in the discussion. They kind of fit the profile of an A-10 school, they're in the footprint, don't play 'real FCS' football, and have a recent history of strong basketball performance. A bit weaker than other adds, but not too far off the mark.

If Dayton and St Louis are serious about staying, and Valpo can have a breakout year next year, then Valpo could be a candidate. They aren't right now, but maybe, just maybe in the next couple of years.

(03-23-2016 04:33 PM)puck swami Wrote:  The University of Denver finished 5th overall in last year's D-I Capital One Cup but would be out of D-I in your scenario...Last year, the Pioneers, undefeated as a Big East conference affiliate member were D-I National Champs in men's lacrosse, knocking out Notre Dame and Maryland to win it, drawing sellout crowds on campus, and 13,000 fans to the NCAA regional in Denver last year. They were #2 in skiing, losing to Colorado and this year, Denver was the NCAA Champion, edging out Utah and Colorado. Denver was #6 in ice hockey last year drawing 5,000 fans a game at a $25 ticket average, and is the #6 seed in this year's tourney. DU was in the final 24 for men's soccer this year, ranked #11 in women's gymnastics this year, and top 30 in men's and women's swimming.

My point here is that some schools are very good D-I schools without football or top notch basketball. Not every team below your Mendoza Line is a sad-sack athletic department.

Denver would be a desirable addition to a few conferences that fall abover the Mendoza Line. Not much to worry about.

I'd support sending the MEAC and SWAC down as I'm tired of seeing those cupcake teams appear on Akron's schedule. As for the other conferences, if they have won a tourney game in last 10 seasons, I feel they should stay. If not, move on down to D2.