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That Guy 2012 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 02:34 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  What $$$? If the above is true Rice wouldn't get an equal share. Rice would get a share commensurate with its contribution, as adjudicated by UT.

TV money maybe, but the gate is all ours and would see immediate improvements.
07-01-2015 02:37 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 02:34 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  What $$$? If the above is true Rice wouldn't get an equal share. Rice would get a share commensurate with its contribution, as adjudicated by UT.

I read it as it goes up proportionally to the number of members?

“The contract says that our main television contract … if we grow from 10 to 11 or 11 to 12, their payments to us grow proportionally,” Boren said. “So everybody’s share stays the same. If it’s ‘X’ dollars, it stays ‘X’ dollars.

Regardless, it stands to reason that the $$ would be better than C-USA
07-01-2015 02:40 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT, and San Diego State is not even the MWC's best school. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Academically I'd much rather be associated with UT (#53), Baylor (#71), TCU (#76), ISU (#106), OU (#106), KU (#106), or than any of the MWC schools academically. SDSU is ranked #149, so that's not exactly a great flagship school academically. I'm not sure where the other schools in the MWC rank though. Also, I do understand that US News rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are a decent measuring stick when you need one.

I understand your other concerns, even if I don't 100% agree with them.
07-01-2015 02:43 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 01:52 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  This is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, and I don't think they're interested in UH either.

Oh it's absolutely a stretch... no doubt....

I'm making the point that every 'large' school is already essentially part of a p5 conference... and those that aren't are what can best be described as 'large' for other reasons... most often a more transient student population and not the traditional 'student body'.... Where (as an example) they might have 40,000 students, but only 15,000 of them are full time, and 5,000 of those 'work' full time as well... whereas most of the p5 schools with 40,000 students have 38k of them who are full time.... which creates a different affinity for 'student activities' like athletics. UH is certainly better than say UTSA, but there's a reason their stadium is smaller than their enrollment. Not a knock, just pointing out the difference between UH at 40k students and UT at 40k students. They serve a different population.

So one of the reasons why UH isn't as attractive than even some smaller schools is that despite having say 40k students, they deliver the alumni base of a smaller school. Maybe not as small as us, but smaller than 40k.

Beyond that, they don't engender substantial 'civic pride' where the average person in Houston feels some sort of affinity for UH as 'the home team'. UT and A&M probably generate a multiple of the 'connection' to the non-student in Houston.

Rice wouldn't either.

And then of course there are those (and it's a large group) who would watch ANY team that was in the top 25 or 35... and the argument is that ANY of us could be in the top 50 merely by having p5 resources.

but Rice CAN (potentially) reach some level of connection with academs in Houston that UH and UT and A&M really can't.... and academs tend to favor the non-revs that occupy a lot of the LHN's airtime. I'm talking about crew and sailing and shooting and biking and equestrian events, which are more often the milieu of academs

Is it a stretch? Of course. If it weren't, we'd all be there...

but UH isn't really that different from say Memphis... who are 'second fiddles' to the UT's. Rice can't be bigger, so we need to 'sell' how we 'broaden the base' (increase the denominator) rather than arguing that we can marginally increase the numerator, which is what UH and Memphis and Cincinnati and all the others are doing.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2015 02:50 PM by Hambone10.)
07-01-2015 02:48 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #25
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 02:23 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Number 1 is hilariously false (the part about it being a push with the MWC).

No, it isn't. Your perspective is "hilariously" wrong (to use your so antagonistically placed adverb).

Well, I guess that westside is off my holiday card list as well. No loss; I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

I'm done, man. I'm done. If you can't see the forest for the trees, it's not my problem. I'll let the more compromising of you sort out our possible futures. For me, this is obviously futile.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2015 03:26 PM by Wiessman.)
07-01-2015 03:21 PM
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Afflicted Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
If a miracle happens and somehow UH is invited to the BIG12, I just hope we don't go running into the arms of an even further weakened AAC. What the BIG12 probably does is take the AAC's best two programs that are the best geographic fits.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2015 03:35 PM by Afflicted.)
07-01-2015 03:32 PM
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greyowl72 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
The stakes seem awfully high for the BIG XII to break up. I think it would hinge on OU and UT negotiating and getting invites to the BIG X and the PAC, respectively. Then it'll probably mean everybody heading to the exits..and fighting like mad for places in the new P4.
Interesting to speculate who would lose...and there would, indeed be losers. OSU would find a place, I think. TCU, too... Successful and in the Metroplex. Baylor has done the job they needed to do in football, women's BB, etc. I think that will get them an invite someplace. Although being in the Waco market doesn't help them at all.
The losers will be among TT, KU, Iowa St. And KnSt. All small TV markets. And, with the
exception of KU (BB) and KnSt (FB), none are consistent world beaters on the national sports stage.
I figure that academic reputation will be w-a-a-y down on the list as criteria for invites. It probably cuts some ice with the BIGX and PAC. But it's not gonna keep them from inviting a successful team in a big market. JMHO.
Are we in on the discussion? I doubt it. (Although the Memphis mention in the article made me wince. I think we would be at least as good as those guys ) We might get in on a new conference of the BIGXII remnants and the western CUSA members.
At any rate, if the BIGXII folds, I'd hope that Dr K would be on the phone and in the meeting room lobbying the hell out of whoever makes the key decisions.
07-01-2015 03:51 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 03:51 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  We might get in on a new conference of the BIGXII remnants and the western CUSA members.

I had the same thought. I'm guessing a SWC - rev.2 would have more appeal than the current CUSA for Rice, depending of course, on what television contracts, bowl tie-ins, etc., could be worked out.

CUSA West current members - Rice, UTSA, NTSt, UTEP, LATech, USM and UAB*

Big 12 members that are not UT or OU - Baylor, TCU, OSU, TT, ISU, KU, KSt, WVU

If you could get 12 including Rice of those 15, I think I would take it.
07-01-2015 04:16 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
Another way to look at it is that Rice would improve the academics of any FBS conference of which it would be a member. Also, we could improve the baseball of any conference except the SEC where we would now just be average. I am aware that football TV markets are the primary deciding factor for conference invites.

Memphis would be even poorer a fit for the Big XII than West Virginia is as concerns regional fit. The LHN contract for Texas runs out in 15 years so I expect that they might jump to the Pac 12 when they no longer have that money.


(07-01-2015 02:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT, and San Diego State is not even the MWC's best school. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Academically I'd much rather be associated with UT (#53), Baylor (#71), TCU (#76), ISU (#106), OU (#106), KU (#106), or than any of the MWC schools academically. SDSU is ranked #149, so that's not exactly a great flagship school academically. I'm not sure where the other schools in the MWC rank though. Also, I do understand that US News rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are a decent measuring stick when you need one.

I understand your other concerns, even if I don't 100% agree with them.
07-01-2015 04:37 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
It seems to me that if the P5 shrinks to a P4, that would be bad news for Rice. That likely means current P5 members are left out, meaning much less chance that a school outside the current P5 would be included in the new P4.

So long live the Big 12...
07-01-2015 05:07 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #31
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 02:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT, and San Diego State is not even the MWC's best school. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Academically I'd much rather be associated with UT (#53), Baylor (#71), TCU (#76), ISU (#106), OU (#106), KU (#106), or than any of the MWC schools academically. SDSU is ranked #149, so that's not exactly a great flagship school academically. I'm not sure where the other schools in the MWC rank though. Also, I do understand that US News rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are a decent measuring stick when you need one.

I understand your other concerns, even if I don't 100% agree with them.

Let me just say that I once you get outside of the top 50 or so, those rankings become much less meaningful. The gap between the quality of a Baylor degree and a San Diego State degree is not really significant in my opinion, and in the west SDSU is probably perceived more favorably. So that must be considered.

And in the future, considering trends in this country, the MWC will almost certainly surpass the Big XII academically, assuming that both continue to exist. If the MWC starts adding UCs, that will only accelerate the process.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2015 05:21 PM by Wiessman.)
07-01-2015 05:10 PM
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owl95 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
I think the scenario of the Big 12 breaking up becomes more likely if they miss the playoff spot again, because then that is 2 years in a row. If another conference misses the spot, then we'll just hear endless complaining instead(not from us, just the media and fans in general).
07-01-2015 05:21 PM
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75src Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
The Big XII will probably continue on even if Texas leaves. There is not enough room to get all the P5 into a P4. We need to position Rice to take the best of any opportunity that comes up since CUSA is really not a long time option.

(07-01-2015 05:07 PM)mrbig Wrote:  It seems to me that if the P5 shrinks to a P4, that would be bad news for Rice. That likely means current P5 members are left out, meaning much less chance that a school outside the current P5 would be included in the new P4.

So long live the Big 12...
07-01-2015 06:20 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 05:10 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT, and San Diego State is not even the MWC's best school. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Academically I'd much rather be associated with UT (#53), Baylor (#71), TCU (#76), ISU (#106), OU (#106), KU (#106), or than any of the MWC schools academically. SDSU is ranked #149, so that's not exactly a great flagship school academically. I'm not sure where the other schools in the MWC rank though. Also, I do understand that US News rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are a decent measuring stick when you need one.

I understand your other concerns, even if I don't 100% agree with them.

Let me just say that I once you get outside of the top 50 or so, those rankings become much less meaningful. The gap between the quality of a Baylor degree and a San Diego State degree is not really significant in my opinion, and in the west SDSU is probably perceived more favorably. So that must be considered.

And in the future, considering trends in this country, the MWC will almost certainly surpass the Big XII academically, assuming that both continue to exist. If the MWC starts adding UCs, that will only accelerate the process.

Academics go out the window when it comes to college athletics. Academics doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't keep the athletics department afloat. These days, you cling to any life raft available to survive. Academics has no place in any conversation concerning athletics, especially when speaking of football at the FBS level. P5 membership depends on numbers, as in the amount of money you spend on athletics and the amount of fans you put in seats.
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2015 07:45 AM by Afflicted.)
07-01-2015 10:09 PM
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13thOwl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-01-2015 10:09 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 05:10 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT, and San Diego State is not even the MWC's best school. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Academically I'd much rather be associated with UT (#53), Baylor (#71), TCU (#76), ISU (#106), OU (#106), KU (#106), or than any of the MWC schools academically. SDSU is ranked #149, so that's not exactly a great flagship school academically. I'm not sure where the other schools in the MWC rank though. Also, I do understand that US News rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are a decent measuring stick when you need one.

I understand your other concerns, even if I don't 100% agree with them.

Let me just say that I once you get outside of the top 50 or so, those rankings become much less meaningful. The gap between the quality of a Baylor degree and a San Diego State degree is not really significant in my opinion, and in the west SDSU is probably perceived more favorably. So that must be considered.

And in the future, considering trends in this country, the MWC will almost certainly surpass the Big XII academically, assuming that both continue to exist. If the MWC starts adding UCs, that will only accelerate the process.

Academics go out the window when it comes to college athletics. Academics doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't keep the athletics department afloat. These days, you cling to any life raft available to survive. Academics has no place in any conversation concerning athletics, especially when speaking of football at the FBS level. P5 membership depends on numbers, as in the amount of money you spend on athletics and the amount of fans you put in seats.

Amazingly you have just put into words the exact opposite of why as a non-Rice guy, I root for Rice Football.

BTW, those Academics you have thrown out the window pay the bills in the form of forgone tuition and cash subsidies.

I like reading people who don't think like I do. Heck, I read almost everything Walt writes :) but you are the first non-troll that I am considering putting on ignore.
07-02-2015 08:42 AM
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Orange County Owl Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
I put Afflicted on ignore months ago. I've never really regretted it.

While academics are clearly not a driving factor, they do play a role. For instance - they're likely a veto in many cases against a school like Boise St (their small TV market doesn't help either). AAU membership was an issue in the recent Big 10 expansion push.
07-02-2015 09:20 AM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
04-clap2
(07-02-2015 08:42 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 10:09 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 05:10 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT, and San Diego State is not even the MWC's best school. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Academically I'd much rather be associated with UT (#53), Baylor (#71), TCU (#76), ISU (#106), OU (#106), KU (#106), or than any of the MWC schools academically. SDSU is ranked #149, so that's not exactly a great flagship school academically. I'm not sure where the other schools in the MWC rank though. Also, I do understand that US News rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are a decent measuring stick when you need one.

I understand your other concerns, even if I don't 100% agree with them.

Let me just say that I once you get outside of the top 50 or so, those rankings become much less meaningful. The gap between the quality of a Baylor degree and a San Diego State degree is not really significant in my opinion, and in the west SDSU is probably perceived more favorably. So that must be considered.

And in the future, considering trends in this country, the MWC will almost certainly surpass the Big XII academically, assuming that both continue to exist. If the MWC starts adding UCs, that will only accelerate the process.

Academics go out the window when it comes to college athletics. Academics doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't keep the athletics department afloat. These days, you cling to any life raft available to survive. Academics has no place in any conversation concerning athletics, especially when speaking of football at the FBS level. P5 membership depends on numbers, as in the amount of money you spend on athletics and the amount of fans you put in seats.

Amazingly you have just put into words the exact opposite of why as a non-Rice guy, I root for Rice Football.

BTW, those Academics you have thrown out the window pay the bills in the form of forgone tuition and cash subsidies.

I like reading people who don't think like I do. Heck, I read almost everything Walt writes :) but you are the first non-troll that I am considering putting on ignore.

04-clap2
07-02-2015 09:23 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-02-2015 08:42 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  Amazingly you have just put into words the exact opposite of why as a non-Rice guy, I root for Rice Football.

BTW, those Academics you have thrown out the window pay the bills in the form of forgone tuition and cash subsidies.

I like reading people who don't think like I do. Heck, I read almost everything Walt writes :) but you are the first non-troll that I am considering putting on ignore.

04-rock

If athletics ever does divorce from academics, where football teams are basically pro players, I want Rice to have nothing to do with it. The fact that we have student-athletes is one of the reasons I support Rice as an avid fan.
07-02-2015 09:37 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-02-2015 08:42 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 10:09 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 05:10 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT, and San Diego State is not even the MWC's best school. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Academically I'd much rather be associated with UT (#53), Baylor (#71), TCU (#76), ISU (#106), OU (#106), KU (#106), or than any of the MWC schools academically. SDSU is ranked #149, so that's not exactly a great flagship school academically. I'm not sure where the other schools in the MWC rank though. Also, I do understand that US News rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are a decent measuring stick when you need one.

I understand your other concerns, even if I don't 100% agree with them.

Let me just say that I once you get outside of the top 50 or so, those rankings become much less meaningful. The gap between the quality of a Baylor degree and a San Diego State degree is not really significant in my opinion, and in the west SDSU is probably perceived more favorably. So that must be considered.

And in the future, considering trends in this country, the MWC will almost certainly surpass the Big XII academically, assuming that both continue to exist. If the MWC starts adding UCs, that will only accelerate the process.

Academics go out the window when it comes to college athletics. Academics doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't keep the athletics department afloat. These days, you cling to any life raft available to survive. Academics has no place in any conversation concerning athletics, especially when speaking of football at the FBS level. P5 membership depends on numbers, as in the amount of money you spend on athletics and the amount of fans you put in seats.

Amazingly you have just put into words the exact opposite of why as a non-Rice guy, I root for Rice Football.

BTW, those Academics you have thrown out the window pay the bills in the form of forgone tuition and cash subsidies.

I like reading people who don't think like I do. Heck, I read almost everything Walt writes :) but you are the first non-troll that I am considering putting on ignore.

I like Afflicted and 13th both, and in some ways better than some of our posters with Rice degrees.

I have nobody from this forum on ignore, and probably will keep it that way, although there are a few who tempt me.
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2015 10:27 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
07-02-2015 10:26 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Big 12 Reorganization Article
(07-02-2015 08:42 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 10:09 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 05:10 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  1. The Big XII is the worst P5 conference academically IMO, so that's not exactly a huge upgrade. And as far as I am concerned, it is a push with the MWC academically. I would attend San Diego State over any school in the Big XII save for UT, and San Diego State is not even the MWC's best school. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2. Baylor and TCU are in the Big XII, and they might invite BYU. I really want no part of that.

3. After what went on at OU recently, I'm not enthusiastic about possibly ending up in a conference with them.

Academically I'd much rather be associated with UT (#53), Baylor (#71), TCU (#76), ISU (#106), OU (#106), KU (#106), or than any of the MWC schools academically. SDSU is ranked #149, so that's not exactly a great flagship school academically. I'm not sure where the other schools in the MWC rank though. Also, I do understand that US News rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are a decent measuring stick when you need one.

I understand your other concerns, even if I don't 100% agree with them.

Let me just say that I once you get outside of the top 50 or so, those rankings become much less meaningful. The gap between the quality of a Baylor degree and a San Diego State degree is not really significant in my opinion, and in the west SDSU is probably perceived more favorably. So that must be considered.

And in the future, considering trends in this country, the MWC will almost certainly surpass the Big XII academically, assuming that both continue to exist. If the MWC starts adding UCs, that will only accelerate the process.

Academics go out the window when it comes to college athletics. Academics doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't keep the athletics department afloat. These days, you cling to any life raft available to survive. Academics has no place in any conversation concerning athletics, especially when speaking of football at the FBS level. P5 membership depends on numbers, as in the amount of money you spend on athletics and the amount of fans you put in seats.

Amazingly you have just put into words the exact opposite of why as a non-Rice guy, I root for Rice Football.

BTW, those Academics you have thrown out the window pay the bills in the form of forgone tuition and cash subsidies.

I like reading people who don't think like I do. Heck, I read almost everything Walt writes :) but you are the first non-troll that I am considering putting on ignore.

I'm a proud Rice fan for the same reason, integrity, but if you want to put me on ignore, please do. It won't make my post any less true.
07-02-2015 10:35 AM
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