(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

(06-30-2015 05:03 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:57 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  The general thought was either UCF or Memphis would be Cincy's partner. This is like a thunderbolt. This guy is the real deal.

Aside form geography Memphis never made any sense. They literally just jumped form C-USA to AAC. Even the BE/AAC didn't want them until schools like Tulsa and Tulane got the call. That speaks volumes. Everyone like to pretend that their "david" school can conquer a "Goliath" conference. Its just not realistic. Long term winning like Louisville and WVU did in the BE will get you an invite. Not a bad run in C-USA and mediocre bowl win against BYU.

"ALLRIGHT" Somebody hold my watch I'm gettin my bucket of mud.

(06-30-2015 05:03 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:57 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  The general thought was either UCF or Memphis would be Cincy's partner. This is like a thunderbolt. This guy is the real deal.

Aside form geography Memphis never made any sense. They literally just jumped form C-USA to AAC. Even the BE/AAC didn't want them until schools like Tulsa and Tulane got the call. That speaks volumes. Everyone like to pretend that their "david" school can conquer a "Goliath" conference. Its just not realistic. Long term winning like Louisville and WVU did in the BE will get you an invite. Not a bad run in C-USA and mediocre bowl win against BYU.

Memphis was invited before Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU.

(06-30-2015 09:01 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 07:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 06:19 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  If it is true and Houston is the top choice for the Big 12, then Texas must be leaving, and that will be bad news for the Big 12. I don't think the Big 12 will add anyone. I think Houston might be on Boren's list, but that doesn't equate to being the top choice of the Big 12.

Jeez. The reality is nobody is leaving the Big-12 for awhile due to the GOR. That said, IF Texas leaves, it wont be because Houston joined conference (assuming that even happens). Its pretty clear there have been issues brewing in the Big-12 for some time and Texas has been toying with various exit strategies for years.

You misunderstand. I'm not saying Texas would leave if Houston was added. I'm saying I don't believe Houston have any kind of shot at being added until after Texas and probably a few other leave.

To be honest, if Texas leaves, OU would probably pack their bags and jet too. And their goes Boren and his support for Houston. On the positive side, what would be left of the Big 12 would probably be interested in adding Houston. They would probably lose their spot in the BCS and playoff system, but they would still have a much better T.V. deal then the AAC and the rest of the G5s.

lol

The AAC has a 10mil exit fee... If UT, and Oklahoma leave, pretty sure Kansas will be not far behind, so will the nice fat TV $$$ revenue.

Im pretty sure Houston will remain right where they are if the above scenario took place.

(06-30-2015 09:00 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:38 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:03 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:57 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  The general thought was either UCF or Memphis would be Cincy's partner. This is like a thunderbolt. This guy is the real deal.

Aside form geography Memphis never made any sense. They literally just jumped form C-USA to AAC. Even the BE/AAC didn't want them until schools like Tulsa and Tulane got the call. That speaks volumes. Everyone like to pretend that their "david" school can conquer a "Goliath" conference. Its just not realistic. Long term winning like Louisville and WVU did in the BE will get you an invite. Not a bad run in C-USA and mediocre bowl win against BYU.

You should probably look up Memphis' basketball and football recent history. Memphis and Cincinnati are Louisville clones on top of being a 3 way rivalry. It would not be very hard for either to be in the top half of the Big 12 in both sports.

LOL. Maybe you should go look it up since you obviously don't get it. 4-5 Bowl wins is not a history. 3 Bowls in 20 years of being the C-USA is not impressing anyone. The only success was winning a down AAC and winning a mediocre bowl. That means nothing.

Tell me what specific football accomplishments I should be impressed with?
If a school struggles in C-USA and never wins it in 20 years why would you think they will be a top half team in a power conference?

Some of the stuff on this board simply amazes me. Memphis, UNI, etc.. are not getting in the Big 12. Go look at AD budgets, accomplishments, attendance, TV ratings, etc... It doesnt' work.


Memphis towards the end of its' best season in school history got a 0.0 TV rating playing against UConn in a half filled stadium. No thanks.

Memphis has the third highest budget in the AAC at $50 million after Cincy at $59 million and UConn at $71 million and has the 3rd highest budget of any G5 school. Houston is at $40 million.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Not sure what your reference means regarding Memphis going from Cusa to the AAC, but Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis all went straight from Cusa to the AAC at the same time in 2013. All those schools "literally just jumped form C-USA to AAC."

And Memphis along with those three other schools, joined the AAC a year before "schools like Tulsa and Tulane got the call", not after.

Football attendance was 33,000 last year, 3rd behind ECU and UCF, and also the 3rd highest of any G5 school. Not sure the significance of the UConn game to you, but Memphis drew 35,000 for a late November game against 2-10 cellar dweller UConn.

As far as basketball goes, Memphis plays in a facility as good if not better than anything in the B12--FedExForum--and since 2010 has ranked 8 nationally for attendance twice and as low as 11 three times and led the AAC last year.

Those no 8 attendance rankings would have placed Memphis no. 1 in the B12.

It's fine with me if you dislike Memphis as a B12 addition, but there's no need to spread inaccurate information.

(06-30-2015 04:35 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  David Sittler says Houston is the Big 12's choice.

Sittler is the most connected journalist in Oklahoma and close to David Boren.

If he says it, take it to the bank.

Take it FWIW, but a year or so ago I heard a rumor from a good source that the B12 was considering the following expansion candidates:

Houston, Rice, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati

At the time the 2 I thought most likely were Houston and Cincinnati. Think of the football power they have compared to the 3 other schools.

Taking Houston would be a good way to stick it to TAMU because its a school in their backyard.

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

So by your definition northwestern and usc are too?

(06-30-2015 11:11 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  It's fine with me if you dislike Memphis as a B12 addition, but there's no need to spread inaccurate information.

Memphis has great fan support. Viewed as a basketball school, perhaps unfairly. Viewed as weak academically, perhaps unfairly.

I'm glad they are in the American.

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

You can't even agree with your own definition. Tell me where is the NES or W in UCF?

Albeit biased, but using a school's name as a means to disqualify is as illogical as it gets. I in know way believe my school, ECU, is a lock or even a good possibility as a expansion candidate, but facts such as support, TV ratings, new TV markets, black balling by existing P5 schools, politics, etc. will be what determines who is selected.

(07-01-2015 01:30 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:11 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  It's fine with me if you dislike Memphis as a B12 addition, but there's no need to spread inaccurate information.

Memphis has great fan support. Viewed as a basketball school, perhaps unfairly. Viewed as weak academically, perhaps unfairly.

I'm glad they are in the American.

I don't get the Memphis love in football... They won 10 games last year. They didn't have a winning record for 6 years before that though... That being said, it's a good basketball pick up for whatever conference they are in. If there is no AAC-raiding, Memphis is a very important school in that league for all sports and its market. The AAC has the makings of a basketball power conference with UConn, Memphis, Cincy and SMU.. throw Temple in there too - just need to the rest to catch up.

The other thing on this expansion thread I need to throw out is what I think people are overlooking - this equation.

1. The Big12 must please Texas and Oklahoma or they will leave.
2. Some members of the B12 *may* want to expand (although it probably costs them TV money share, it does get them a championship game which may -or may not - be necessary in the 4-team playoff future).

Therefore:

Wouldn't the Big12 be smarter raiding another school from a P5 with those deep financial pockets they supposedly have then taking a non-P5?

I wouldn't be surprised if you see Cincy + existing P5 (or BYU + existing P5) as the final outcome... just need to find the $$$

(07-01-2015 05:57 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

You can't even agree with your own definition. Tell me where is the NES or W in UCF?

heheheh

also I guess South Carolina is in trouble too in the SEC

(07-01-2015 12:33 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

So by your definition northwestern and usc are too?

North Carolina laughs at Northwestern and USC

As I said...it is a state of mind and a look test to me.

UCF had roots as a directional but I don't consider them one anymore.

(07-01-2015 08:28 AM)jskwrite Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 01:30 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:11 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  It's fine with me if you dislike Memphis as a B12 addition, but there's no need to spread inaccurate information.

Memphis has great fan support. Viewed as a basketball school, perhaps unfairly. Viewed as weak academically, perhaps unfairly.

I'm glad they are in the American.

I don't get the Memphis love in football... They won 10 games last year. They didn't have a winning record for 6 years before that though... That being said, it's a good basketball pick up for whatever conference they are in. If there is no AAC-raiding, Memphis is a very important school in that league for all sports and its market. The AAC has the makings of a basketball power conference with UConn, Memphis, Cincy and SMU.. throw Temple in there too - just need to the rest to catch up.

The other thing on this expansion thread I need to throw out is what I think people are overlooking - this equation.

1. The Big12 must please Texas and Oklahoma or they will leave.
2. Some members of the B12 *may* want to expand (although it probably costs them TV money share, it does get them a championship game which may -or may not - be necessary in the 4-team playoff future).

Therefore:

Wouldn't the Big12 be smarter raiding another school from a P5 with those deep financial pockets they supposedly have then taking a non-P5?

I wouldn't be surprised if you see Cincy + existing P5 (or BYU + existing P5) as the final outcome... just need to find the $$$

Memphis has a great fan base...besides the NBA...Memphis Tigers are their local "pro" team.

Jeff: What solitary P5 school would join the B12?

(07-01-2015 08:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 12:33 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

So by your definition northwestern and usc are too?

North Carolina laughs at Northwestern and USC

As I said...it is a state of mind and a look test to me.

UCF had roots as a directional but I don't consider them one anymore.

West Virginia laughs at North Carolina laughing at Northwestern and USC.

Btw depending on the States; some directional schools can be huge. Depending on the States.

(07-01-2015 08:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 12:33 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

So by your definition northwestern and usc are too?

North Carolina laughs at Northwestern and USC

As I said...it is a state of mind and a look test to me.

UCF had roots as a directional but I don't consider them one anymore.

I'd agree with your sentiment. It was once true, but not so much anymore. Anyone who continues to say that nonsense, hasn't stepped a foot on campus.

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

Do UCLA and Southern Cal get a pass because they are in a P5 conference? They are as directional as any school you mentioned.

(07-01-2015 08:59 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 08:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 12:33 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

So by your definition northwestern and usc are too?

North Carolina laughs at Northwestern and USC

As I said...it is a state of mind and a look test to me.

UCF had roots as a directional but I don't consider them one anymore.

I'd agree with your sentiment. It was once true, but not so much anymore. Anyone who continues to say that nonsense, hasn't stepped a foot on campus.

Directionals are typically viewed as overwhelmingly supporting just a part of a state. You can't tell a thing by "stepping on a campus." They usually don't have a big research component, but, again, you can't tell that by "stepping on a campus." Its not about how many students.

You can tell by looking at where their students come from. Now its harder to be regional in Florida with the distribution of population. But, for example, in North Carolina, if ECU got very few students from Charlotte, its pretty directional. If West Carolina got very few students from Wilmington and other points along the coast, its pretty directional. Now UNC and NCSU get students from around the state. (before any ECU fans come on here throwing a fit, note the word "if").

(07-01-2015 08:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 12:33 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

So by your definition northwestern and usc are too?

North Carolina laughs at Northwestern and USC

As I said...it is a state of mind and a look test to me.

UCF had roots as a directional but I don't consider them one anymore.

Correct. Even further, I'd categorically state that private schools like USC and Northwestern inherently are not "directional schools" or "city schools" (i.e. Syracuse) for conference realignment purposes. A directional school in the context that we're looking at here is a non-flagship public school that typically has (not always) a direction in its name (usually located in smaller college towns outside of large metro areas), while a city school is a non-flagship public school that refers to and/or located in a major city.

Obviously, those are just generalities. As you've noted, UCF would probably be defined as a city school (similar to Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis in character) as opposed to a directional school (i.e. Northern Illinois, Southern Miss, etc.). USF is in the same category - it is effectively the Tampa version of the University of Cincinnati despite having a directional name on paper.

(07-01-2015 09:11 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 09:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:35 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:56 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Sounds like a realistic choice. At some point you have to think they said look we simply can't take on a directional school, a west coast bible school, or UConn. We need to focus on the schools willing to compete at this level that make some geographic sense. Schools who spend p-5 money on coaches. Schools who are upgrading facilities. Cinci is an obvious choice. Houston is a little rough around the edges but has many things going for it including existing Big 12 fans in the area to help attendance. If that's how it works out the real question is how do we do divisions or do we do away with that and have a couple of permanent games and rotate the rest so the top 2 can meet in a CCG.

Does it get any more directional than a school named after a city?

Yes. A directional school features a NESW direction in the name. NIU, ECU, UCF, Southern Miss, and so on.

Do UCLA and Southern Cal get a pass because they are in a P5 conference? They are as directional as any school you mentioned.

It's more about the character of the school. UCLA is what I'd call a "flagship equivalent" - it might not be the official flagship of its state, but its qualities (i.e. academic reputation, composition of the student body, research expenditures) would make it look like a flagship in nearly any other state. (Other examples of "flagship equivalents": Texas A&M, Georgia Tech, Michigan State, Purdue, Florida State, etc.)

As noted previously, private schools are NOT "directional schools" in the context that we're speaking of. We're talking about regional non-flagship public schools that very often (not always) have a direction in their names. Generally, you know it when you see it - there's a huge difference between USC and Northern Illinois (or in terms of branches of a university system, between UCLA and, say, UNC-Greensboro).