If you think about it we have a lot of parallels. We are in a minority who are finding the ground beneath our feet shifting. We are attacked daily by powerful interests. People are becoming down right hostile to our interests because of these attacks. The real reason we are attacked is because of our GOTV success. We have become the enemy of a political party. Our host political party uses us and has absolutely no fear in betraying us. As a matter of fact at times they find it politically appealing to poke us with a sharp stick. Even though both of us share some of the same people we are constantly finding ourselves at the opposite end of the rope in a game of tug of war. As a proud Union member I can definitely understand some of the feelings of persecution I'm sure some true blue Christians are feeling.


People's attitudes are changing and the world is changing. Both of us are struggling to deal with this new reality.

Yeah.. I don't see any union guys getting their heads cut off for having different beliefs.

(06-30-2015 11:13 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Yeah.. I don't see any union guys getting their heads cut off for having different beliefs.

I think the OP was only referring to developments and trends in the United States, not world-wide.

And anyway, yes I do see a lot of similarities between what the two groups are going through in this country.

(06-30-2015 11:13 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Yeah.. I don't see any union guys getting their heads cut off for having different beliefs.

There has been more anti-union violence in the recent US history than anti-christian violence, so I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to here.

(06-30-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:13 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Yeah.. I don't see any union guys getting their heads cut off for having different beliefs.

There has been more anti-union violence in the recent US history than anti-christian violence, so I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to here.

Yes, I get what OP is doing. Its a vacuum sort of statement.

The notion of persecution is a bit... off putting when considering what is happening in overseas with ISIS. While yes, Unions have become targets, I just don't view it in the same way. Until I see a group of Union workers being subjected to mass execution, then I'll change my stance a bit.

Except Christians aren't the minority. Not even close.

(06-30-2015 11:35 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:13 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  Yeah.. I don't see any union guys getting their heads cut off for having different beliefs.

There has been more anti-union violence in the recent US history than anti-christian violence, so I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to here.

Yes, I get what OP is doing. Its a vacuum sort of statement.

The notion of persecution is a bit... off putting when considering what is happening in overseas with ISIS. While yes, Unions have become targets, I just don't view it in the same way. Until I see a group of Union workers being subjected to mass execution, then I'll change my stance a bit.

Well, honest question, have you ever learned about anti-union history? It's easy to not see something you've never actually looked for, because that has absolutely happened before in the past. And similar things have happened in the US more recently than I think you might realize.

Lattimer Massacre - 19 killed unarmed stikers, shot in the back by the local sheriff.

Columbine Mine Massacre - 6 strikers dead and dozens injured.

Ludlow Massacre - 19-25 deaths, including women and children.

There were no convictions in any of these, btw.

Shifty. This is all Americans.

The Gallup International indicates that close to 40%[1] of Americans report they regularly attend religious services; however, the numbers that actually do attend are less than half that claimed, although this fact is contradicted by statistics appearing a few sentences later in this paragraph. Obviously, there is an error here someplace, challenging the integrity, or at least the clarity, of this process.[2] This compares to other countries claims such as 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[3] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[4] In the U.K., in 2011, an average once-a-week attendance in Anglican churches went down by 0.3% compared with 2012, thus exhibiting a stabilizing trend.[5] Previously, starting from 2000, an average rate of weekly church attendance in Britain was dropping down 1% annually. In 2013, the Pew Research Center reported that 37% of all Americans attended church on a weekly basis.[6] In its turn, Gallup estimated the once-a-week church attendance of the Americans in 2013 as 39%.[7]

In some regions I would venture it's less than 10%.

(06-30-2015 11:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shifty. This is all Americans.

The Gallup International indicates that close to 40%[1] of Americans report they regularly attend religious services; however, the numbers that actually do attend are less than half that claimed, although this fact is contradicted by statistics appearing a few sentences later in this paragraph. Obviously, there is an error here someplace, challenging the integrity, or at least the clarity, of this process.[2] This compares to other countries claims such as 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[3] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[4] In the U.K., in 2011, an average once-a-week attendance in Anglican churches went down by 0.3% compared with 2012, thus exhibiting a stabilizing trend.[5] Previously, starting from 2000, an average rate of weekly church attendance in Britain was dropping down 1% annually. In 2013, the Pew Research Center reported that 37% of all Americans attended church on a weekly basis.[6] In its turn, Gallup estimated the once-a-week church attendance of the Americans in 2013 as 39%.[7]

In some regions I would venture it's less than 10%.

Thank you for posting some crap that doesn't at all address my claim.

Christian does not equal "goes to church at least once a week"

(06-30-2015 12:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shifty. This is all Americans.

The Gallup International indicates that close to 40%[1] of Americans report they regularly attend religious services; however, the numbers that actually do attend are less than half that claimed, although this fact is contradicted by statistics appearing a few sentences later in this paragraph. Obviously, there is an error here someplace, challenging the integrity, or at least the clarity, of this process.[2] This compares to other countries claims such as 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[3] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[4] In the U.K., in 2011, an average once-a-week attendance in Anglican churches went down by 0.3% compared with 2012, thus exhibiting a stabilizing trend.[5] Previously, starting from 2000, an average rate of weekly church attendance in Britain was dropping down 1% annually. In 2013, the Pew Research Center reported that 37% of all Americans attended church on a weekly basis.[6] In its turn, Gallup estimated the once-a-week church attendance of the Americans in 2013 as 39%.[7]

In some regions I would venture it's less than 10%.

Thank you for posting some crap that doesn't at all address my claim.

Christian does not equal "goes to church at least once a week"

No, but let's not act like it's a useless metric either. Why not be productive and add to the discussion on what you think a good metric to measure christianity instead of just sh*tting on his and acting like that's enough?

(06-30-2015 12:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shifty. This is all Americans.

The Gallup International indicates that close to 40%[1] of Americans report they regularly attend religious services; however, the numbers that actually do attend are less than half that claimed, although this fact is contradicted by statistics appearing a few sentences later in this paragraph. Obviously, there is an error here someplace, challenging the integrity, or at least the clarity, of this process.[2] This compares to other countries claims such as 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[3] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[4] In the U.K., in 2011, an average once-a-week attendance in Anglican churches went down by 0.3% compared with 2012, thus exhibiting a stabilizing trend.[5] Previously, starting from 2000, an average rate of weekly church attendance in Britain was dropping down 1% annually. In 2013, the Pew Research Center reported that 37% of all Americans attended church on a weekly basis.[6] In its turn, Gallup estimated the once-a-week church attendance of the Americans in 2013 as 39%.[7]

In some regions I would venture it's less than 10%.

Thank you for posting some crap that doesn't at all address my claim.

Christian does not equal "goes to church at least once a week"

No, but let's not act like it's a useless metric either. Why not be productive and add to the discussion on what you think a good metric to measure christianity instead of just sh*tting on his and acting like that's enough?

How many strawmen are you going to stuff today? Did I say it was useless or did I say it didn't address my claim?

Come on, bruh. Do better.

He refuted my claim by citing statistics that don't refute it.

(06-30-2015 12:20 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shifty. This is all Americans.

The Gallup International indicates that close to 40%[1] of Americans report they regularly attend religious services; however, the numbers that actually do attend are less than half that claimed, although this fact is contradicted by statistics appearing a few sentences later in this paragraph. Obviously, there is an error here someplace, challenging the integrity, or at least the clarity, of this process.[2] This compares to other countries claims such as 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[3] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[4] In the U.K., in 2011, an average once-a-week attendance in Anglican churches went down by 0.3% compared with 2012, thus exhibiting a stabilizing trend.[5] Previously, starting from 2000, an average rate of weekly church attendance in Britain was dropping down 1% annually. In 2013, the Pew Research Center reported that 37% of all Americans attended church on a weekly basis.[6] In its turn, Gallup estimated the once-a-week church attendance of the Americans in 2013 as 39%.[7]

In some regions I would venture it's less than 10%.

Thank you for posting some crap that doesn't at all address my claim.

Christian does not equal "goes to church at least once a week"

No, but let's not act like it's a useless metric either. Why not be productive and add to the discussion on what you think a good metric to measure christianity instead of just sh*tting on his and acting like that's enough?

How many strawmen are you going to stuff today? Did I say it was useless or did I say it didn't address my claim?

Come on, bruh. Do better.

He refuted my claim by citing statistics that don't refute it.

1. Religiosity is commonly measured by attendance at religious institution. You might disagree with that, but it has value.

2. You have no provided a single defense of your own statement, which is my point. If you're going to take the time to respond about how someone elses data is invalid, at least propose a better metric if you want to be taken seriously.

(06-30-2015 12:24 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:20 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shifty. This is all Americans.

The Gallup International indicates that close to 40%[1] of Americans report they regularly attend religious services; however, the numbers that actually do attend are less than half that claimed, although this fact is contradicted by statistics appearing a few sentences later in this paragraph. Obviously, there is an error here someplace, challenging the integrity, or at least the clarity, of this process.[2] This compares to other countries claims such as 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[3] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[4] In the U.K., in 2011, an average once-a-week attendance in Anglican churches went down by 0.3% compared with 2012, thus exhibiting a stabilizing trend.[5] Previously, starting from 2000, an average rate of weekly church attendance in Britain was dropping down 1% annually. In 2013, the Pew Research Center reported that 37% of all Americans attended church on a weekly basis.[6] In its turn, Gallup estimated the once-a-week church attendance of the Americans in 2013 as 39%.[7]

In some regions I would venture it's less than 10%.

Thank you for posting some crap that doesn't at all address my claim.

Christian does not equal "goes to church at least once a week"

No, but let's not act like it's a useless metric either. Why not be productive and add to the discussion on what you think a good metric to measure christianity instead of just sh*tting on his and acting like that's enough?

How many strawmen are you going to stuff today? Did I say it was useless or did I say it didn't address my claim?

Come on, bruh. Do better.

He refuted my claim by citing statistics that don't refute it.

1. Religiosity is commonly measured by attendance at religious institution. You might disagree with that, but it has value.

2. You have no provided a single defense of your own statement, which is my point. If you're going to take the time to respond about how someone elses data is invalid, at least propose a better metric if you want to be taken seriously.

1) No it isn't. Religiosity, however, is commonly measured by you using attendance at a religious institution. Which is fine. But no one cares.

2) It's about 77% http://www.gallup.com/poll/159548/identi...stian.aspx

Sound the bell. It's over.

(06-30-2015 12:28 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:24 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:20 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Thank you for posting some crap that doesn't at all address my claim.

Christian does not equal "goes to church at least once a week"

No, but let's not act like it's a useless metric either. Why not be productive and add to the discussion on what you think a good metric to measure christianity instead of just sh*tting on his and acting like that's enough?

How many strawmen are you going to stuff today? Did I say it was useless or did I say it didn't address my claim?

Come on, bruh. Do better.

He refuted my claim by citing statistics that don't refute it.

1. Religiosity is commonly measured by attendance at religious institution. You might disagree with that, but it has value.

2. You have no provided a single defense of your own statement, which is my point. If you're going to take the time to respond about how someone elses data is invalid, at least propose a better metric if you want to be taken seriously.

1) No it isn't. Religiosity, however, is commonly measured by you using attendance at a religious institution. Which is fine. But no one cares.

2) It's about 77% http://www.gallup.com/poll/159548/identi...stian.aspx

Sound the bell. It's over.

You really have no idea what this was all about, do you?

Why did it take you three, passive agressive and useless posts before you actually posted a source instead of just saying how wrong someone else is? If you think I didn't realize those self-identifying as christians are a majority in the US, I don't know what to say.

(06-30-2015 12:32 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:28 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:24 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:20 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 12:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  No, but let's not act like it's a useless metric either. Why not be productive and add to the discussion on what you think a good metric to measure christianity instead of just sh*tting on his and acting like that's enough?

How many strawmen are you going to stuff today? Did I say it was useless or did I say it didn't address my claim?

Come on, bruh. Do better.

He refuted my claim by citing statistics that don't refute it.

1. Religiosity is commonly measured by attendance at religious institution. You might disagree with that, but it has value.

2. You have no provided a single defense of your own statement, which is my point. If you're going to take the time to respond about how someone elses data is invalid, at least propose a better metric if you want to be taken seriously.

1) No it isn't. Religiosity, however, is commonly measured by you using attendance at a religious institution. Which is fine. But no one cares.

2) It's about 77% http://www.gallup.com/poll/159548/identi...stian.aspx

Sound the bell. It's over.

You really have no idea what this was all about, do you?

Why did it take you three, passive agressive and useless posts before you actually posted a source instead of just saying how wrong someone else is?

Why are you acting like this is the first time you've had a discourse with me? It's like you don't know me, bro.

I don't see the connection. No government can take away my faith in Jesus Christ.

(06-30-2015 12:37 PM)dfarr Wrote:  I don't see the connection. No government can take away my faith in Jesus Christ.

Oppressive Christian shitlord.

You hate gay people.

Stop resisting the government and their will.

(06-30-2015 11:10 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If you think about it we have a lot of parallels. We are in a minority who are finding the ground beneath our feet shifting. We are attacked daily by powerful interests. People are becoming down right hostile to our interests because of these attacks. The real reason we are attacked is because of our GOTV success. We have become the enemy of a political party. Our host political party uses us and has absolutely no fear in betraying us. As a matter of fact at times they find it politically appealing to poke us with a sharp stick. Even though both of us share some of the same people we are constantly finding ourselves at the opposite end of the rope in a game of tug of war. As a proud Union member I can definitely understand some of the feelings of persecution I'm sure some true blue Christians are feeling.


People's attitudes are changing and the world is changing. Both of us are struggling to deal with this new reality.

what I find interesting is that I don't understand drawing parallels between a loosely connected duo (unions/christians) relative to the 'leftovers' (those that oppose/politicians) to begin with.....

now to the nuts and bolts part of this equation (which I hate to explain, but I must this time)

unions lost favor quite some time ago......the christian base is only dealing with ~15 yrs having things negatively tossed back instantaneously in their face due to the internutz (it hasn't been that long since a majority of the populous became truly wired).....this is something the christian based 'shell' isn't used to.....yet, their decline is minimal relative to union membershite loss

an example would involve the following....here's a couple of charts to tickle the compare/contrast aspect in numbers





now, let's extrapolate....

decades of union membershite losses have rendered them numb to the criticism from the internutz...most union members/leaders understand their days are numbered....currently, they are in the corner and on their knees begging for crumbs....their intents and purpose have been exhausted in today's/future economic schematic....

contrarily, the internutz has allowed many christians to enter the chaotic POV from the social side of the world that most christians appear to embrace with horror and surprise....the internutz has become their antichrist of sorts (me looking whilst describing through the sadistic mirror).....

unions have been fighting membershite losses for some time now and were never close to the majority of the workforce population (thank god )....unions are at life preserver stage....

the majority of people in this country still 'claim' to be christian.....IMO, christians will most likely be there (life preserver) one day.....I'll give concede that as a future common theme....however, that's not the case at this time

those claiming to be 'christian' far outweigh the 'others' like myself (the devil worshiping rock-n-rollas, thugs, or atheists)....whether 'christians' lie about being christian/participation (therefore skewing data), is an entire other issue

the politician part of the argument is irrelevant....one could easily apply that to any 'self-interest' group that feels 'slighted'....policy change is a jointly exhaustive arrangement of butt-hurt being applied to some entity....christians just aren't morally comfortable with the latest round of social reforms that are currently taking place.....quite similar to the slave thingy and perception of today's southerner by many ill-informed/agenda driven people, IMO....

the generalization made in your last statement, is always true relative to "times are changing".....that's a given

I guess I could agree with debating the following...... "why are union/christian memberships decreasing...is technology the prime culprit relative to different eras?" or "can union/christian bases recover from decades of membershite current and anticipated future losses...what would it take?" or "are unions/churches still necessary in the 21st century...are they akin to the do-do"....pick your poison....those might be fun to discuss for some of yaz.....

so, is the argument about the written intent, or is it just another open-ad-hoc-free-for-all-cry-me-a-river-lookin'-for-similar-comfort type thingy?

....or did I blow your mind?

Honestly, I just lthought of the parallels and showed them. Didn't need to extrapolate anything from it.

(06-30-2015 12:37 PM)dfarr Wrote:  I don't see the connection. No government can take away my faith in Jesus Christ.

wow....somebody with some sense (the bolded)....

the op's argument was about the parallels of losing ground over time relative to unions and christians (if I understood him correctly)

most of the responses in this thread have little to do with that.....it quickly turned into another hem-n-haw cf....starting with the raghead beheadings....then shooting straight to anti-union violence

it's not surprising that some people cannot stick to the topic.....it's quite typical of how the media represents 'news' these days....

the flock crave nesting with the 'flock'....addresses the preceding statement from myself and the 2nd half of yours.....

guess there is a connection thru wielding the wand of separation....

but I digress.....