(07-05-2015 01:33 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 01:27 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 12:50 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 12:14 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 11:53 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Read the details of WVU's settlement with the Big East, and be enlightened.

What I remember was that you can't compel performance of a contract, but the breaching party is liable for damages. In WVU's case, it was $20M or so, $2.5M of which was paid when WVU gave notice, $12M or so was WVU's Big East distribution for 2012 (forfeited) and the rest payable in cash/check (which was then forwarded to the MAC to get Temple out for 2012 instead of Boise State for some reason.)

Little known fact often forgotten, UofL actually gave notice to the BE before WVU was voted into the Big 12. We informed every party we were obligated to which could be a factor regarding Boise State.
To this point, we may have been the last school to land a P5 spot but we weren't the last school out of the G5.........that would be WVU.

That's a crock. Although it was a nice attempt to rewrite history, dude. But the truth is Mitch McConnell was trying to get the Big XII to take Louisville instead of WVU. He did get the Big XII to delay the decision. But the Big XII took WVU over the Cards, because WVU was the better TV draw for football. Louisville was left looking for a lifeline, which the ACC eventually threw them.

It worked out. But not like you suppose.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/sports...ginia.html

I take it you've forgotten the argument between Senators Manchin and McConnell in Congress.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72591.html

His claim is that Louisville actually withdrew about a year before having a landing spot. Ive heard it before from other sources, but its hard to believe they would take that kind of risk.

I have every reason to believe that UofL would have played football as an Independent following the 27 month waiting period. Our Olympics would have stayed in the BE. A verbal contract is also binding especially made when trying to help (protect) the other party in good faith.

Shucks! I bet ND would have scheduled us and we would still be considered a Power 5 opponent!

(07-05-2015 07:01 PM)Dasville Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...-cardinals


From the link:

Quote:The university was able to negotiate a lower amount because Jurich, as required by the league's bylaws, informed then-Big East commissioner John Marinatto and South Florida president Judy Genshaft in October 2011 that the Cardinals would leave the league in 27 months, Marinatto said.

In 2011, Louisville and West Virginia were both trying to get into the Big 12, and Jurich told Marinatto that if Louisville wasn't successful, the Cardinals would pursue other options.

Marinatto and Genshaft unsuccessfully tried to get Jurich to reconsider, and Jurich reiterated on Oct. 13, 2011 -- the same day Big East officials met with potential member Central Florida -- that he was providing verbal notice that Louisville would exit the Big East.

The next day, Jurich notified Genshaft, the chairwoman of the Big East's board of directors who was in London at the time, of Louisville's plans on a conference call with Marinatto.

Unable to change Jurich's mind, Marinatto and Genshaft asked Jurich not to submit a withdrawal letter because it could be obtained through a public records search and they feared knowledge of Louisville's decision would hurt the league's stability.

Jurich agreed not to submit the letter but notified other Big East athletic directors in the following months that Louisville was leaving the league.

Two weeks after Jurich notified Marinatto and Genshaft, the Big 12 voted to add only West Virginia.

Last one in, but not the last one out. Plenty of Big 12 ADs have stated they believed and wanted it to be UofL all along. We both found a home so no bother.
Just a little known fact often forgotten.

As I recall, the BE exit clause was $5M and a 27 month wait period. The Cards paid $11M instead of the $7.5M because they left after 18 months (after submitting written withdrawal notification) of the 27 month period, while SU and Pitt left after 21 months of the 27 month period. WVU left after basically waiting 8 months and paid $20M, although this article says $21M.


WVU left about 30% into the 27 month wait period and paid between $20-21M (which means had they left immediately at the first of the next month the sum to be paid would equate to around $30M).

UL left about 60% into the 27 month wait period and paid $11M (which is basically 40% of $30M) from their written withdrawal date.

SU and Pitt left about 77% into the 27 month period and paid $7.5M (which is about 25% of $30M, so they may be considered to have overpaid slightly).

West Virginia's settlement and the day they submitted written withdrawal notification to the league is what basically set the amount paid.

If Louisville was truly allowed to use the verbal date, which is about the same date that SU and Pitt gave, then Louisville got screwed and should have only paid the $5M exit fee because they served 33 months from October 2011 through June of 2014.

I think Jurich is smarter than that. Don't you?

Cheers,
Neil

(07-05-2015 07:41 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 07:01 PM)Dasville Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...-cardinals


From the link:

Quote:The university was able to negotiate a lower amount because Jurich, as required by the league's bylaws, informed then-Big East commissioner John Marinatto and South Florida president Judy Genshaft in October 2011 that the Cardinals would leave the league in 27 months, Marinatto said.

In 2011, Louisville and West Virginia were both trying to get into the Big 12, and Jurich told Marinatto that if Louisville wasn't successful, the Cardinals would pursue other options.

Marinatto and Genshaft unsuccessfully tried to get Jurich to reconsider, and Jurich reiterated on Oct. 13, 2011 -- the same day Big East officials met with potential member Central Florida -- that he was providing verbal notice that Louisville would exit the Big East.

The next day, Jurich notified Genshaft, the chairwoman of the Big East's board of directors who was in London at the time, of Louisville's plans on a conference call with Marinatto.

Unable to change Jurich's mind, Marinatto and Genshaft asked Jurich not to submit a withdrawal letter because it could be obtained through a public records search and they feared knowledge of Louisville's decision would hurt the league's stability.

Jurich agreed not to submit the letter but notified other Big East athletic directors in the following months that Louisville was leaving the league.

Two weeks after Jurich notified Marinatto and Genshaft, the Big 12 voted to add only West Virginia.

Last one in, but not the last one out. Plenty of Big 12 ADs have stated they believed and wanted it to be UofL all along. We both found a home so no bother.
Just a little known fact often forgotten.

As I recall, the BE exit clause was $5M and a 27 month wait period. The Cards paid $11M instead of the $7.5M because they left after 18 months (after submitting written withdrawal notification) of the 27 month period, while SU and Pitt left after 21 months of the 27 month period. WVU left after basically waiting 8 months and paid $20M, although this article says $21M.


WVU left about 30% into the 27 month wait period and paid between $20-21M (which means had they left immediately at the first of the next month the sum to be paid would equate to around $30M).

UL left about 60% into the 27 month wait period and paid $11M (which is basically 40% of $30M) from their written withdrawal date.

SU and Pitt left about 77% into the 27 month period and paid $7.5M (which is about 25% of $30M, so they may be considered to have overpaid slightly).

West Virginia's settlement and the day they submitted written withdrawal notification to the league is what basically set the amount paid.

If Louisville was truly allowed to use the verbal date, which is about the same date that SU and Pitt gave, then Louisville got screwed and should have only paid the $5M exit fee because they served 33 months from October 2011 through June of 2014.

I think Jurich is smarter than that. Don't you?

Cheers,
Neil

I think not only is Jurich smart but he is honorable! That is why we retained our voting rights and allowed the exit fee to increase to $10 million. That is why we are the only school I know of that followed every letter of the conference bylaws. We appreciate all that the BE did for us and wished no team harm. It was time for us to move on and we did and would have regardless of the ACC invite.
I think your right that we could have saved ourselves some money. The question is, would that have been the honorable thing to do?

We made our choice, it worked out. Enough said.

(07-05-2015 08:04 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 07:41 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 07:01 PM)Dasville Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...-cardinals


From the link:

Quote:The university was able to negotiate a lower amount because Jurich, as required by the league's bylaws, informed then-Big East commissioner John Marinatto and South Florida president Judy Genshaft in October 2011 that the Cardinals would leave the league in 27 months, Marinatto said.

In 2011, Louisville and West Virginia were both trying to get into the Big 12, and Jurich told Marinatto that if Louisville wasn't successful, the Cardinals would pursue other options.

Marinatto and Genshaft unsuccessfully tried to get Jurich to reconsider, and Jurich reiterated on Oct. 13, 2011 -- the same day Big East officials met with potential member Central Florida -- that he was providing verbal notice that Louisville would exit the Big East.

The next day, Jurich notified Genshaft, the chairwoman of the Big East's board of directors who was in London at the time, of Louisville's plans on a conference call with Marinatto.

Unable to change Jurich's mind, Marinatto and Genshaft asked Jurich not to submit a withdrawal letter because it could be obtained through a public records search and they feared knowledge of Louisville's decision would hurt the league's stability.

Jurich agreed not to submit the letter but notified other Big East athletic directors in the following months that Louisville was leaving the league.

Two weeks after Jurich notified Marinatto and Genshaft, the Big 12 voted to add only West Virginia.

Last one in, but not the last one out. Plenty of Big 12 ADs have stated they believed and wanted it to be UofL all along. We both found a home so no bother.
Just a little known fact often forgotten.

As I recall, the BE exit clause was $5M and a 27 month wait period. The Cards paid $11M instead of the $7.5M because they left after 18 months (after submitting written withdrawal notification) of the 27 month period, while SU and Pitt left after 21 months of the 27 month period. WVU left after basically waiting 8 months and paid $20M, although this article says $21M.


WVU left about 30% into the 27 month wait period and paid between $20-21M (which means had they left immediately at the first of the next month the sum to be paid would equate to around $30M).

UL left about 60% into the 27 month wait period and paid $11M (which is basically 40% of $30M) from their written withdrawal date.

SU and Pitt left about 77% into the 27 month period and paid $7.5M (which is about 25% of $30M, so they may be considered to have overpaid slightly).

West Virginia's settlement and the day they submitted written withdrawal notification to the league is what basically set the amount paid.

If Louisville was truly allowed to use the verbal date, which is about the same date that SU and Pitt gave, then Louisville got screwed and should have only paid the $5M exit fee because they served 33 months from October 2011 through June of 2014.

I think Jurich is smarter than that. Don't you?

Cheers,
Neil

I think not only is Jurich smart but he is honorable! That is why we retained our voting rights and allowed the exit fee to increase to $10 million. That is why we are the only school I know of that followed every letter of the conference bylaws. We appreciate all that the BE did for us and wished no team harm. It was time for us to move on and we did and would have regardless of the ACC invite.
I think your right that we could have saved ourselves some money. The question is, would that have been the honorable thing to do?

We made our choice, it worked out. Enough said.

Actually, per the Big East by-laws, the increase to the $10M exit fee for the football schools was to be brought back down to the original $5M if during the fiscal year the league was notified it would not have an automatic bid to the BCS. Per the Rutgers lawsuit against the Big East, such notice was given to the BE in June of 2012 which was the last month of the fiscal year of 2011-12 and thereafter.

So no matter how you slice it, it was a $5M exit fee whether you believe the verbal was sufficient (the same exit fee as SU, Pitt, and WVU) or if you believe as I do that the written notification was the starting point.

Again, I ask, do you truly think Jurich and Ramsay are so honorable that they would overpay by $6M if they truly thought the verbal would hold up in court? And if they were, why did they have a clause that said if Rutgers paid less, their amount would have to be reduced to that lower amount as well?

Not saying they aren't both honorable men, but obviously they are businessmen too.

Cheers,
Neil

(07-05-2015 08:04 PM)Dasville Wrote:  We made our choice, it worked out. Enough said.

True. But would there have been much of a consequence for not carrying through with the advanced verbal? The conference was in no position to "punish" Louisville if they did a "just kidding" and reneged on the verbal.

(07-05-2015 02:06 PM)krup Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 09:22 AM)Dasville Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 07:10 AM)krup Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 06:23 AM)Artifice Wrote:  It is punitive, and unfairly biased to the networks, not the schools. It's a noncompete with a multiyear annuity style liquidated damages clause that I just cannot see holding up In court, in full.

There should be a resonable notice/opt put provision. E.g. a year.

Here's another scenario. Say school A leaves conference 1 where its revenue share was $20M for conference 2 where its revenue share will be $40M. Wouldn't conference 1 be made whole if it still received $20M through the remainder of the GOR period? From what I understand there's no specific performance side to the GOR, its just monetary. So what's stopping School A from moving anyway and then taking a cut of their share for a few years to join a better league for the long haul? And that's assuming any of the GOR holds up or isn't negotiated post move.

Though I have to admit I haven't read the exact wording, I just don't think the GORs will stop any school or league hell bent on making a move.

To me, the only move by a school bound by a GOR would be one of a select group of schools going to a conference with a solid cable network (SEC or B1G).

For example, if Texas, UNC or UVa went to the B1G. The downside for the B1G is that you don't get their home games, so even some games where your current schools are road teams disappear from your control. But, if the old conference has to continue Texas, UNC or UVa the $20 million a year for control of their rights, the B1G only has to pay them a fraction of a full share.

So, the equation becomes....You add a new member you wanted that you will have long term, you lose control of some content but for a limited time, but YOU GET THE FULL CARRIAGE RATE IN NORTH CAROLINA, VIRGINIA OR TEXAS AND ONLY HAVE TO PAY THEM $10-15 MILLION A YEAR WHILE THE GOR IS IN EFFECT. The B1G would sign up for that math in a second.

Of coarse, in the ACC teams case, it would be after the collection of $60+ million and the B1G reduced distributions for entry over the next 5-6 years or so. Combine that with limited exposure and trying to recruit in different areas and that is a tough pill to swallow.

What $60 million are you talking about? News articles about the ACC GOR said it made the exit fee go away. The B1G might have to reduce their distributions for entry like they did MD, RU and NE, but they would still get a full ACC share of TV revenue (using the assumption, like I did above, that the old conference would need to continue to pay the leaving school for their TV rights or the GOR would not hold up in court).

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ights-deal

That's not correct. The cost to leave the ACC is 3 X the annual revenue, plus whatever the GOR is imputed to be. So right now, it's about $72 million plus the GOR value which is naturally variable between schools. WF's would not be as high as UNC's, or FSU's.

The GOR is a television rights thing, the exit fee is something different. The same is true in the B12, they have an exit fee and a GOR.

(07-05-2015 08:17 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 08:04 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 07:41 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 07:01 PM)Dasville Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...-cardinals


From the link:

Quote:The university was able to negotiate a lower amount because Jurich, as required by the league's bylaws, informed then-Big East commissioner John Marinatto and South Florida president Judy Genshaft in October 2011 that the Cardinals would leave the league in 27 months, Marinatto said.

In 2011, Louisville and West Virginia were both trying to get into the Big 12, and Jurich told Marinatto that if Louisville wasn't successful, the Cardinals would pursue other options.

Marinatto and Genshaft unsuccessfully tried to get Jurich to reconsider, and Jurich reiterated on Oct. 13, 2011 -- the same day Big East officials met with potential member Central Florida -- that he was providing verbal notice that Louisville would exit the Big East.

The next day, Jurich notified Genshaft, the chairwoman of the Big East's board of directors who was in London at the time, of Louisville's plans on a conference call with Marinatto.

Unable to change Jurich's mind, Marinatto and Genshaft asked Jurich not to submit a withdrawal letter because it could be obtained through a public records search and they feared knowledge of Louisville's decision would hurt the league's stability.

Jurich agreed not to submit the letter but notified other Big East athletic directors in the following months that Louisville was leaving the league.

Two weeks after Jurich notified Marinatto and Genshaft, the Big 12 voted to add only West Virginia.

Last one in, but not the last one out. Plenty of Big 12 ADs have stated they believed and wanted it to be UofL all along. We both found a home so no bother.
Just a little known fact often forgotten.

As I recall, the BE exit clause was $5M and a 27 month wait period. The Cards paid $11M instead of the $7.5M because they left after 18 months (after submitting written withdrawal notification) of the 27 month period, while SU and Pitt left after 21 months of the 27 month period. WVU left after basically waiting 8 months and paid $20M, although this article says $21M.


WVU left about 30% into the 27 month wait period and paid between $20-21M (which means had they left immediately at the first of the next month the sum to be paid would equate to around $30M).

UL left about 60% into the 27 month wait period and paid $11M (which is basically 40% of $30M) from their written withdrawal date.

SU and Pitt left about 77% into the 27 month period and paid $7.5M (which is about 25% of $30M, so they may be considered to have overpaid slightly).

West Virginia's settlement and the day they submitted written withdrawal notification to the league is what basically set the amount paid.

If Louisville was truly allowed to use the verbal date, which is about the same date that SU and Pitt gave, then Louisville got screwed and should have only paid the $5M exit fee because they served 33 months from October 2011 through June of 2014.

I think Jurich is smarter than that. Don't you?

Cheers,
Neil

I think not only is Jurich smart but he is honorable! That is why we retained our voting rights and allowed the exit fee to increase to $10 million. That is why we are the only school I know of that followed every letter of the conference bylaws. We appreciate all that the BE did for us and wished no team harm. It was time for us to move on and we did and would have regardless of the ACC invite.
I think your right that we could have saved ourselves some money. The question is, would that have been the honorable thing to do?

We made our choice, it worked out. Enough said.

Actually, per the Big East by-laws, the increase to the $10M exit fee for the football schools was to be brought back down to the original $5M if during the fiscal year the league was notified it would not have an automatic bid to the BCS. Per the Rutgers lawsuit against the Big East, such notice was given to the BE in June of 2012 which was the last month of the fiscal year of 2011-12 and thereafter.

So no matter how you slice it, it was a $5M exit fee whether you believe the verbal was sufficient (the same exit fee as SU, Pitt, and WVU) or if you believe as I do that the written notification was the starting point.

Again, I ask, do you truly think Jurich and Ramsay are so honorable that they would overpay by $6M if they truly thought the verbal would hold up in court? And if they were, why did they have a clause that said if Rutgers paid less, their amount would have to be reduced to that lower amount as well?

Not saying they aren't both honorable men, but obviously they are businessmen too.

Cheers,
Neil

Literally everyone lost their BCS bid. There was no exclusion of the Big East. The BCS went away.
Please also remember, we would have still needed a home for our Olympics. To remain independent in football, I guess we would have had to put them with the Catholic Seven.
We paid $10mill + $1mill, Rutgers sued and settled for $5 mill + $6 mill.

We weren't going to pay more than Rutgers doing things the right way.
I get the feeling that the former Comissioner was willing to testify as to what went down.

Correction to my previous post.
I stated Rutgers paid $5 mil in exit fee + $6 mill in penalty. I was reading about WVU exit and accidentally confused Rutgers with WVU. My mistake.

Rutgers paid $10 million and settled for an extra $1 million in lieu of exit fees from previously departed members.

(07-05-2015 09:28 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Correction to my previous post.
I stated Rutgers paid $5 mil in exit fee + $6 mill in penalty. I was reading about WVU exit and accidentally confused Rutgers with WVU. My mistake.

Rutgers paid $10 million and settled for an extra $1 million in lieu of exit fees from previously departed members.

No, actually Rutgers paid $11.5M. But it's all semantics. If you say that the $10M exit fee held, an exit fee that did not take effect until after Louisville gave their verbal notice that they were leaving, then Jurich is hardly the genius you tried to make him out to be by doing it this way. Louisville stayed 33 months from the point the verbal was given, and paid the later passed exit fee of $10M plus $1.

So have it your way. Jurich is an honorable idiot.

Cheers,
Neil

You see we couldn't claim we were due a share of exit fees if we also claimed our verbal was binding.
Everything ended great for everyone so......I guess let sleeping dogs lie.