(06-29-2015 05:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 05:42 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 08:03 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 07:06 AM)JRsec Wrote:  There is a chance that Boren is announcing that expansion is finally coming. A Texas deal has not worked out with the ACC so far. I think they get one last chance to play ball but then what? Syracuse, Boston College, and Pittsburgh, were seen as a survival move for the ACC when they happened. At that time I said that ESPN was stockpiling inventory that Delany might be interested in. The SEC's desire for market expansion into Virginia and North Carolina are well established. The LHN held Texas in place. Then there's the question of why FOX and ESPN would want the trouble of splitting up what has been an amicable distribution of rights in the Big 12? And finally hanging over all of this is the ACCN issue.

ESPN might have held out hopes of rebuilding the ACC with Texas and Notre Dame as football anchors but that can change too. The SEC / Big 12 partnership was about football. It is easier to build a football conference around Texas and OU and make it profitable as must see TV than it is around the ACC.

This is what yet could happen. ESPN lands T1 rights for the Big 10 but does so by permitting Delany to move on into New England, Virginia and North Carolina. They maximize the SECN's revenue and avoid duplicating expenses on the ACCN by allowing the SEC to move into Virginia and North Carolina as well. Then both ESPN and FOX continue to split the Big 12 by rebuilding it with the ACC football properties only this time ESPN gets the Network. ESPN loses nothing, regains the Big 10's T1 rights, profits from increases in the SECN and makes Texas happy long term. N.D. gets a Big 12 deal to remain independent, keeps access to Georgia and Florida, gains access to the Sugar Bowl, gets a series with the SEC every now and then and Chapel Hill loses everything by refusing to cooperate. Anything that ESPN was making off of its properties in the ACC is covered now with what they make in the Big 10, SEC, and Big 12. Game over. In that light Boren's remarks are the harbinger of better schools to select from in Big 12 expansion.

While not popular, it is possible.

Loses everything?
There could be a lot worse things than moving to the B1G with UVa, Dook and Georgia Tech.
We have already made arrangements to play Wake Forest OOC and we could finally rid ourselves of those guys in Raleigh. I would miss Clemson however.
Carolina is the 11th largest research institution in the country and Dook is in the top 5. UVa draws mostly from Virginia northward. I can't see any problems there, we would just be joining peers instead of having to put up with an overgrown women's college in the middle of the Florida panhandle.
For us we, would just move from Swofford, class of '71 to Delany, class of '70.

Personally I would love to see UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, FSU and Syracuse join up for a 20 team conference that would see divisions as such.

UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, FSU
OSU, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, Syracuse
Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois
Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern

That would be my preferred set up for The Big Ten but, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps we would let Notre Dame have Syracuse's spot but personally, at this point with all that has been done and said, I would just let Notre Dame walk on over to the big 12 with the rest of the ACC that didn't get into The Big Ten or The SEC. Hell, the SEC could have Notre Dame so that those Southerners could believe that they successfully invaded the North and stole it's best brand. Fine by me.

Why would we want them? They don't fit. Let them go to the Big 12 and continue their bro-love with Texas. But unlike you I don't see the move to 20 unless the PAC raids the Big 12 after the Big 10 and SEC take from the ACC. Then I think both the SEC and Big 10 might grab some niche markets.

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Syracuse would finish out the Big 10.

Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and perhaps Clemson and Florida State finish out the SEC.

The Big 12 goes to 18 as well.
Boston College, Connecticut, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State,
Baylor, B.Y.U., Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Miami
* Notre Dame playing the part of the good friend at the family reunion.

Looks fine up front but when you start to dive into divisions for The Big Ten, that becomes one major head ache.

You are talking three divisions of six right? So how do you figure out the East? Who gets left out? Syracuse? Penn State? That is seven Eastern programs, one would end up with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana and Purdue. All of them would rather be in the Eastern division. I could imagine the fallout of Penn State missing out of being in that Eastern division. Perhaps that would be just Karma for all of the Sandusky BS but none the less, it would be a major headache.

Would love to see OU in the SEC at 15. Adding FSU at 16 would cripple the ACC, but would make CBS very very happy with all the programming options they'd have. Realistically, if OU is 15, I'm sure the boys in Birmingham start looking at UNC, VT, NC State, UVA, and WVU to round out.

(06-29-2015 07:40 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Would love to see OU in the SEC at 15. Adding FSU at 16 would cripple the ACC, but would make CBS very very happy with all the programming options they'd have. Realistically, if OU is 15, I'm sure the boys in Birmingham start looking at UNC, VT, NC State, UVA, and WVU to round out.

The question is round out to what? 16, 18, or 20? The issues moving forward will continue to be content as the market model slides into memory, geography for minor sports and similar culture, and finding ways to keep fans involved in an economic downturn, and one's a coming. I'm a big fan of OU as #15 and an even bigger fan of FSU at #16. I would round out with these: Virginia Tech, N.C. State, (I can't abide U.N.C.) Clemson and Texas. That would lock down Florida and the Lone Star State, add the markets we crave, and the most SEC like schools left on the table.

(06-30-2015 01:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 07:40 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Would love to see OU in the SEC at 15. Adding FSU at 16 would cripple the ACC, but would make CBS very very happy with all the programming options they'd have. Realistically, if OU is 15, I'm sure the boys in Birmingham start looking at UNC, VT, NC State, UVA, and WVU to round out.

The question is round out to what? 16, 18, or 20? The issues moving forward will continue to be content as the market model slides into memory, geography for minor sports and similar culture, and finding ways to keep fans involved in an economic downturn, and one's a coming. I'm a big fan of OU as #15 and an even bigger fan of FSU at #16. I would round out with these: Virginia Tech, N.C. State, (I can't abide U.N.C.) Clemson and Texas. That would lock down Florida and the Lone Star State, add the markets we crave, and the most SEC like schools left on the table.

I would even call it a possible fantasy and a fulfillment of what Roy Kramer started and Slive carefully crafted.

Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech
Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
Alabama, Florida State, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State
Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

(06-29-2015 06:15 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 05:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 05:42 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 08:03 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 07:06 AM)JRsec Wrote:  There is a chance that Boren is announcing that expansion is finally coming. A Texas deal has not worked out with the ACC so far. I think they get one last chance to play ball but then what? Syracuse, Boston College, and Pittsburgh, were seen as a survival move for the ACC when they happened. At that time I said that ESPN was stockpiling inventory that Delany might be interested in. The SEC's desire for market expansion into Virginia and North Carolina are well established. The LHN held Texas in place. Then there's the question of why FOX and ESPN would want the trouble of splitting up what has been an amicable distribution of rights in the Big 12? And finally hanging over all of this is the ACCN issue.

ESPN might have held out hopes of rebuilding the ACC with Texas and Notre Dame as football anchors but that can change too. The SEC / Big 12 partnership was about football. It is easier to build a football conference around Texas and OU and make it profitable as must see TV than it is around the ACC.

This is what yet could happen. ESPN lands T1 rights for the Big 10 but does so by permitting Delany to move on into New England, Virginia and North Carolina. They maximize the SECN's revenue and avoid duplicating expenses on the ACCN by allowing the SEC to move into Virginia and North Carolina as well. Then both ESPN and FOX continue to split the Big 12 by rebuilding it with the ACC football properties only this time ESPN gets the Network. ESPN loses nothing, regains the Big 10's T1 rights, profits from increases in the SECN and makes Texas happy long term. N.D. gets a Big 12 deal to remain independent, keeps access to Georgia and Florida, gains access to the Sugar Bowl, gets a series with the SEC every now and then and Chapel Hill loses everything by refusing to cooperate. Anything that ESPN was making off of its properties in the ACC is covered now with what they make in the Big 10, SEC, and Big 12. Game over. In that light Boren's remarks are the harbinger of better schools to select from in Big 12 expansion.

While not popular, it is possible.

Loses everything?
There could be a lot worse things than moving to the B1G with UVa, Dook and Georgia Tech.
We have already made arrangements to play Wake Forest OOC and we could finally rid ourselves of those guys in Raleigh. I would miss Clemson however.
Carolina is the 11th largest research institution in the country and Dook is in the top 5. UVa draws mostly from Virginia northward. I can't see any problems there, we would just be joining peers instead of having to put up with an overgrown women's college in the middle of the Florida panhandle.
For us we, would just move from Swofford, class of '71 to Delany, class of '70.

Personally I would love to see UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, FSU and Syracuse join up for a 20 team conference that would see divisions as such.

UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, FSU
OSU, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, Syracuse
Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois
Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern

That would be my preferred set up for The Big Ten but, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps we would let Notre Dame have Syracuse's spot but personally, at this point with all that has been done and said, I would just let Notre Dame walk on over to the big 12 with the rest of the ACC that didn't get into The Big Ten or The SEC. Hell, the SEC could have Notre Dame so that those Southerners could believe that they successfully invaded the North and stole it's best brand. Fine by me.

Why would we want them? They don't fit. Let them go to the Big 12 and continue their bro-love with Texas. But unlike you I don't see the move to 20 unless the PAC raids the Big 12 after the Big 10 and SEC take from the ACC. Then I think both the SEC and Big 10 might grab some niche markets.

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Syracuse would finish out the Big 10.

Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and perhaps Clemson and Florida State finish out the SEC.

The Big 12 goes to 18 as well.
Boston College, Connecticut, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State,
Baylor, B.Y.U., Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Miami
* Notre Dame playing the part of the good friend at the family reunion.

Looks fine up front but when you start to dive into divisions for The Big Ten, that becomes one major head ache.

You are talking three divisions of six right? So how do you figure out the East? Who gets left out? Syracuse? Penn State? That is seven Eastern programs, one would end up with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana and Purdue. All of them would rather be in the Eastern division. I could imagine the fallout of Penn State missing out of being in that Eastern division. Perhaps that would be just Karma for all of the Sandusky BS but none the less, it would be a major headache.

Perhaps you could switch Syracuse for Louisville than. The Cards would fit in either division.

(06-30-2015 04:50 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 06:15 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 05:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 05:42 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 08:03 AM)XLance Wrote:  Loses everything?
There could be a lot worse things than moving to the B1G with UVa, Dook and Georgia Tech.
We have already made arrangements to play Wake Forest OOC and we could finally rid ourselves of those guys in Raleigh. I would miss Clemson however.
Carolina is the 11th largest research institution in the country and Dook is in the top 5. UVa draws mostly from Virginia northward. I can't see any problems there, we would just be joining peers instead of having to put up with an overgrown women's college in the middle of the Florida panhandle.
For us we, would just move from Swofford, class of '71 to Delany, class of '70.

Personally I would love to see UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, FSU and Syracuse join up for a 20 team conference that would see divisions as such.

UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, FSU
OSU, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, Syracuse
Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois
Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern

That would be my preferred set up for The Big Ten but, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps we would let Notre Dame have Syracuse's spot but personally, at this point with all that has been done and said, I would just let Notre Dame walk on over to the big 12 with the rest of the ACC that didn't get into The Big Ten or The SEC. Hell, the SEC could have Notre Dame so that those Southerners could believe that they successfully invaded the North and stole it's best brand. Fine by me.

Why would we want them? They don't fit. Let them go to the Big 12 and continue their bro-love with Texas. But unlike you I don't see the move to 20 unless the PAC raids the Big 12 after the Big 10 and SEC take from the ACC. Then I think both the SEC and Big 10 might grab some niche markets.

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Syracuse would finish out the Big 10.

Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and perhaps Clemson and Florida State finish out the SEC.

The Big 12 goes to 18 as well.
Boston College, Connecticut, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State,
Baylor, B.Y.U., Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Miami
* Notre Dame playing the part of the good friend at the family reunion.

Looks fine up front but when you start to dive into divisions for The Big Ten, that becomes one major head ache.

You are talking three divisions of six right? So how do you figure out the East? Who gets left out? Syracuse? Penn State? That is seven Eastern programs, one would end up with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana and Purdue. All of them would rather be in the Eastern division. I could imagine the fallout of Penn State missing out of being in that Eastern division. Perhaps that would be just Karma for all of the Sandusky BS but none the less, it would be a major headache.

Perhaps you could switch Syracuse for Louisville than. The Cards would fit in either division.

I found myself immediately wanting to respond with something like "The Big Ten would never invite a school named after a City" then I reminded myself that Syracuse is named after the city. Then I thought to myself "The whole academics thing might be a problem" but of course, I once again had to remind myself how hypocritical my reaction was due to the fact that Syracuse lost their AAU status.

Louisville: I'm not saying yes but I'm not saying no either. You are correct in the assertion that they help with the division problem.

(06-30-2015 05:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:50 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 06:15 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 05:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 05:42 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Personally I would love to see UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, FSU and Syracuse join up for a 20 team conference that would see divisions as such.

UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, FSU
OSU, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, Syracuse
Michigan, MSU, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois
Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern

That would be my preferred set up for The Big Ten but, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps we would let Notre Dame have Syracuse's spot but personally, at this point with all that has been done and said, I would just let Notre Dame walk on over to the big 12 with the rest of the ACC that didn't get into The Big Ten or The SEC. Hell, the SEC could have Notre Dame so that those Southerners could believe that they successfully invaded the North and stole it's best brand. Fine by me.

Why would we want them? They don't fit. Let them go to the Big 12 and continue their bro-love with Texas. But unlike you I don't see the move to 20 unless the PAC raids the Big 12 after the Big 10 and SEC take from the ACC. Then I think both the SEC and Big 10 might grab some niche markets.

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Syracuse would finish out the Big 10.

Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and perhaps Clemson and Florida State finish out the SEC.

The Big 12 goes to 18 as well.
Boston College, Connecticut, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State,
Baylor, B.Y.U., Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Miami
* Notre Dame playing the part of the good friend at the family reunion.

Looks fine up front but when you start to dive into divisions for The Big Ten, that becomes one major head ache.

You are talking three divisions of six right? So how do you figure out the East? Who gets left out? Syracuse? Penn State? That is seven Eastern programs, one would end up with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana and Purdue. All of them would rather be in the Eastern division. I could imagine the fallout of Penn State missing out of being in that Eastern division. Perhaps that would be just Karma for all of the Sandusky BS but none the less, it would be a major headache.

Perhaps you could switch Syracuse for Louisville than. The Cards would fit in either division.

I found myself immediately wanting to respond with something like "The Big Ten would never invite a school named after a City" then I reminded myself that Syracuse is named after the city. Then I thought to myself "The whole academics thing might be a problem" but of course, I once again had to remind myself how hypocritical my reaction was due to the fact that Syracuse lost their AAU status.

Louisville: I'm not saying yes but I'm not saying no either. You are correct in the assertion that they help with the division problem.

Lol, just trying to keep us out of the Big 12. Also sticking it to Gee who said that Louisville would never be apart of the B1G.

(06-30-2015 06:01 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:50 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 06:15 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 05:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Why would we want them? They don't fit. Let them go to the Big 12 and continue their bro-love with Texas. But unlike you I don't see the move to 20 unless the PAC raids the Big 12 after the Big 10 and SEC take from the ACC. Then I think both the SEC and Big 10 might grab some niche markets.

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Syracuse would finish out the Big 10.

Virginia Tech, N.C. State, and perhaps Clemson and Florida State finish out the SEC.

The Big 12 goes to 18 as well.
Boston College, Connecticut, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State,
Baylor, B.Y.U., Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Miami
* Notre Dame playing the part of the good friend at the family reunion.

Looks fine up front but when you start to dive into divisions for The Big Ten, that becomes one major head ache.

You are talking three divisions of six right? So how do you figure out the East? Who gets left out? Syracuse? Penn State? That is seven Eastern programs, one would end up with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana and Purdue. All of them would rather be in the Eastern division. I could imagine the fallout of Penn State missing out of being in that Eastern division. Perhaps that would be just Karma for all of the Sandusky BS but none the less, it would be a major headache.

Perhaps you could switch Syracuse for Louisville than. The Cards would fit in either division.

I found myself immediately wanting to respond with something like "The Big Ten would never invite a school named after a City" then I reminded myself that Syracuse is named after the city. Then I thought to myself "The whole academics thing might be a problem" but of course, I once again had to remind myself how hypocritical my reaction was due to the fact that Syracuse lost their AAU status.

Louisville: I'm not saying yes but I'm not saying no either. You are correct in the assertion that they help with the division problem.

Lol, just trying to keep us out of the Big 12. Also sticking it to Gee who said that Louisville would never be apart of the B1G.

Gee is gone and is now part of the big 12.

Also, the folks leading the Big Ten institutions have become much more forward thinking. The big money boosters hated how much negativity was being heaped upon the Big Ten by everyone outside of it. There is a lot of Pride in The Big Ten. The whole xenophobic mentality has been replaced due to that bruised pride and now they want to beat everyone at every sport. It has been quite the transformation and it has come about rather quickly.

(06-30-2015 06:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 06:01 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 05:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 04:50 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 06:15 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Looks fine up front but when you start to dive into divisions for The Big Ten, that becomes one major head ache.

You are talking three divisions of six right? So how do you figure out the East? Who gets left out? Syracuse? Penn State? That is seven Eastern programs, one would end up with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana and Purdue. All of them would rather be in the Eastern division. I could imagine the fallout of Penn State missing out of being in that Eastern division. Perhaps that would be just Karma for all of the Sandusky BS but none the less, it would be a major headache.

Perhaps you could switch Syracuse for Louisville than. The Cards would fit in either division.

I found myself immediately wanting to respond with something like "The Big Ten would never invite a school named after a City" then I reminded myself that Syracuse is named after the city. Then I thought to myself "The whole academics thing might be a problem" but of course, I once again had to remind myself how hypocritical my reaction was due to the fact that Syracuse lost their AAU status.

Louisville: I'm not saying yes but I'm not saying no either. You are correct in the assertion that they help with the division problem.

Lol, just trying to keep us out of the Big 12. Also sticking it to Gee who said that Louisville would never be apart of the B1G.

Gee is gone and is now part of the big 12.

Also, the folks leading the Big Ten institutions have become much more forward thinking. The big money boosters hated how much negativity was being heaped upon the Big Ten by everyone outside of it. There is a lot of Pride in The Big Ten. The whole xenophobic mentality has been replaced due to that bruised pride and now they want to beat everyone at every sport. It has been quite the transformation and it has come about rather quickly.

How disappointed are you going to be when Oklahoma winds up in the SEC? From the travel going on behind the scenes I think ESPN brokers most of this and that the SEC and Big 10 will both do fine. I'm just not sure how the distribution ends up, or whether the ACC will be involved any capacity beyond perhaps taking West Virginia. No matter how it goes down when it is over there should be little doubt that the networks have been behind almost all of it.

Maybe some of the folks will finally realize that the GOR's were structured to permit the coordination of moves by the networks.

Cowherd and Finebaum (both of whom work for ESPN) say Oklahoma is SEC bound. Boomer!

The threat of Oklahoma going to the SEC is a direct threat to hold outs because that is a very real possibility should this all not get negotiated. If this goes on till the end of the GoR. Right now, The Big Ten is the only conference capable of making Fox happy enough to not dam up the process.

You are right about there being able to be coordination between the networks but...that requires Fox's cooperation as well.

Sorry, there is a difference between propaganda and truth. Right now, almost everything being said publicly is propaganda with a purpose.

(06-30-2015 10:51 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The threat of Oklahoma going to the SEC is a direct threat to hold outs because that is a very real possibility should this all not get negotiated. If this goes on till the end of the GoR. Right now, The Big Ten is the only conference capable of making Fox happy enough to not dam up the process.

You are right about there being able to be coordination between the networks but...that requires Fox's cooperation as well.

Sorry, there is a difference between propaganda and truth. Right now, almost everything being said publicly is propaganda with a purpose.

That's not what I hear exactly. The public cry has been whispered in a tweet. It doesn't mean the details are accurate, but the public has been notified that realignment is not over. I also find the timing of FOX's financial trimming of FX1 to be interesting. Anyway, I do think the SEC will go hard for OU because it gives us a 2 for 1. A new state flagship school with brand and part of DFW. They just aren't going to give that up without a fight. The rest of the Big 12 is not of terrific interest for us outside of Texas and I just don't think that happens if the conference is being brokered. That's why I also don't see the Big 10 landing 2 of the 4 gets. Everybody will get 1 with the least (WVU) going to the ACC if it happens that way.

Given the wealth of both Texas and Oklahoma this could be a unilateral move if it takes place. Don't rule that out either. Although Texas to the PAC sounds brokered to me and designed to help place three of the Big 12 schools. We'll see. But I wouldn't be shocked to see the SEC just stand at 15.

Looking at this from the top down I see two things sticking out here as the most likely forces pushing Boren's comments. The first is the fact that The Big's western division needs an additional power player. If you look at Nebraska's football schedule this yr it certainly didn't portray the excitement I imagine they originally felt they'd get going into The Big. OK would solve that dilemma and KS in addition would be perfect. UT has too many anchors in its home state to overcome. The SEC west is loaded with power teams and doesn't need any additions so I don't see the SEC as being the culprit for Boren's move. The second reason is likely very simple and being overlooked here. Last years Playoff has made the Big12 uneasy about 10 teams. BYU is a great brand and Sunday games can be worked around. They'll add Cincinatti for an Ohio footprint and a stepping stone for WVU or Colorado St. Both are spending mega dollars as we speak on upgraded facilities. The latter is by far the most likely scenario. The grant of rights agreement is a legal nightmare to tear the lid off of.

(06-30-2015 07:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  How disappointed are you going to be when Oklahoma winds up in the SEC? From the travel going on behind the scenes I think ESPN brokers most of this and that the SEC and Big 10 will both do fine. I'm just not sure how the distribution ends up, or whether the ACC will be involved any capacity beyond perhaps taking West Virginia. No matter how it goes down when it is over there should be little doubt that the networks have been behind almost all of it.

Maybe some of the folks will finally realize that the GOR's were structured to permit the coordination of moves by the networks.

Cowherd and Finebaum (both of whom work for ESPN) say Oklahoma is SEC bound. Boomer!

JR',

Can you elaborate a little more on these flight plans, if you can of course?

Thanks,

Murr

(06-30-2015 11:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 10:51 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The threat of Oklahoma going to the SEC is a direct threat to hold outs because that is a very real possibility should this all not get negotiated. If this goes on till the end of the GoR. Right now, The Big Ten is the only conference capable of making Fox happy enough to not dam up the process.

You are right about there being able to be coordination between the networks but...that requires Fox's cooperation as well.

Sorry, there is a difference between propaganda and truth. Right now, almost everything being said publicly is propaganda with a purpose.

That's not what I hear exactly. The public cry has been whispered in a tweet. It doesn't mean the details are accurate, but the public has been notified that realignment is not over. I also find the timing of FOX's financial trimming of FX1 to be interesting. Anyway, I do think the SEC will go hard for OU because it gives us a 2 for 1. A new state flagship school with brand and part of DFW. They just aren't going to give that up without a fight. The rest of the Big 12 is not of terrific interest for us outside of Texas and I just don't think that happens if the conference is being brokered. That's why I also don't see the Big 10 landing 2 of the 4 gets. Everybody will get 1 with the least (WVU) going to the ACC if it happens that way.

Given the wealth of both Texas and Oklahoma this could be a unilateral move if it takes place. Don't rule that out either. Although Texas to the PAC sounds brokered to me and designed to help place three of the Big 12 schools. We'll see. But I wouldn't be shocked to see the SEC just stand at 15.

With CCG deregulation a strong possibility and only having only 4 conferences would mean only conference champs would play in the playoffs. Expanding the CCG to two rounds with four teams could give conferences some flexibility in organizing themselves. A 15-team SEC with OU could look like this with the highest rated non-division champ receiving the wild card spot:
1. OU, Mizzou, Ark, Texas A&M, LSU
2. Ole Miss, MSU, Aub, Alabama, Vandy
3. UF, UGa, USCe, UK, Tenn

If both networks do work together on this behind the scenes and each get 1 of the 4 (which I assume are UT, OU, KS, and WVU) then I would think the B1G has to wind up with either UT or OU and SEC the same. The PAC would have to wind up with KS and the ACC with WVU (if the 4 indeed needed to be divided up, but I don't think it really matters once you get below the 2 Kings).

Now one of them could working on their own, possibly bring about OU and KS to the B1G and UT and TTU to the PAC, or the other one bring about OU and WVU or OSU or Baylor to the SEC and UT and TCU or Baylor to the ACC.

But if they work together then each of the Greater 2 conferences get 1 of the 2 Kings or it's really not working together, plain and simple.

Cheers,
Neil

(07-01-2015 10:52 PM)omniorange Wrote:  If both networks do work together on this behind the scenes and each get 1 of the 4 (which I assume are UT, OU, KS, and WVU) then I would think the B1G has to wind up with either UT or OU and SEC the same. The PAC would have to wind up with KS and the ACC with WVU (if the 4 indeed needed to be divided up, but I don't think it really matters once you get below the 2 Kings).

Now one of them could working on their own, possibly bring about OU and KS to the B1G and UT and TTU to the PAC, or the other one bring about OU and WVU or OSU or Baylor to the SEC and UT and TCU or Baylor to the ACC.

But if they work together then each of the Greater 2 conferences get 1 of the 2 Kings or it's really not working together, plain and simple.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil I think just the opposite is true here. Remember N.D. is a king as well and their presence immensely helps the ACC in the public's mindset. Texas is way bigger than Oklahoma in terms of market and their national images are relatively close to one another in terms of brand strength. But Texas to either the PAC or ACC brings more balance to the 4 conferences than Texas to the Big 10 or SEC where their presence brings more distance. Oklahoma to the SEC with say a Baylor would be muted in terms of disproportional balance. And at some point geography has to play a part. Kansas has to be taken by the Big 10 to really even consider nabbing the Sooners. So if you divide them up 1 to each surviving conference Texas is the only one with long enough coattails to bring a T.C.U. or Tech along with an Oklahoma State or Kansas State to the PAC and therefore the only one that really could place enough to achieve dissolution. If ESPN and/or FOX gain a bit of the PAC for that move I think the ESPN buys back those ACC rights and you get your network anyway. It's probably unfortunate that this would please Chapel Hill.

(07-01-2015 10:41 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 11:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-30-2015 10:51 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The threat of Oklahoma going to the SEC is a direct threat to hold outs because that is a very real possibility should this all not get negotiated. If this goes on till the end of the GoR. Right now, The Big Ten is the only conference capable of making Fox happy enough to not dam up the process.

You are right about there being able to be coordination between the networks but...that requires Fox's cooperation as well.

Sorry, there is a difference between propaganda and truth. Right now, almost everything being said publicly is propaganda with a purpose.

That's not what I hear exactly. The public cry has been whispered in a tweet. It doesn't mean the details are accurate, but the public has been notified that realignment is not over. I also find the timing of FOX's financial trimming of FX1 to be interesting. Anyway, I do think the SEC will go hard for OU because it gives us a 2 for 1. A new state flagship school with brand and part of DFW. They just aren't going to give that up without a fight. The rest of the Big 12 is not of terrific interest for us outside of Texas and I just don't think that happens if the conference is being brokered. That's why I also don't see the Big 10 landing 2 of the 4 gets. Everybody will get 1 with the least (WVU) going to the ACC if it happens that way.

Given the wealth of both Texas and Oklahoma this could be a unilateral move if it takes place. Don't rule that out either. Although Texas to the PAC sounds brokered to me and designed to help place three of the Big 12 schools. We'll see. But I wouldn't be shocked to see the SEC just stand at 15.

With CCG deregulation a strong possibility and only having only 4 conferences would mean only conference champs would play in the playoffs. Expanding the CCG to two rounds with four teams could give conferences some flexibility in organizing themselves. A 15-team SEC with OU could look like this with the highest rated non-division champ receiving the wild card spot:
1. OU, Mizzou, Ark, Texas A&M, LSU
2. Ole Miss, MSU, Aub, Alabama, Vandy
3. UF, UGa, USCe, UK, Tenn

Yeah, I think that would work for a while but the number of conference games would be tricky.

(07-02-2015 12:38 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:52 PM)omniorange Wrote:  If both networks do work together on this behind the scenes and each get 1 of the 4 (which I assume are UT, OU, KS, and WVU) then I would think the B1G has to wind up with either UT or OU and SEC the same. The PAC would have to wind up with KS and the ACC with WVU (if the 4 indeed needed to be divided up, but I don't think it really matters once you get below the 2 Kings).

Now one of them could working on their own, possibly bring about OU and KS to the B1G and UT and TTU to the PAC, or the other one bring about OU and WVU or OSU or Baylor to the SEC and UT and TCU or Baylor to the ACC.

But if they work together then each of the Greater 2 conferences get 1 of the 2 Kings or it's really not working together, plain and simple.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil I think just the opposite is true here. Remember N.D. is a king as well and their presence immensely helps the ACC in the public's mindset. Texas is way bigger than Oklahoma in terms of market and their national images are relatively close to one another in terms of brand strength. But Texas to either the PAC or ACC brings more balance to the 4 conferences than Texas to the Big 10 or SEC where their presence brings more distance. Oklahoma to the SEC with say a Baylor would be muted in terms of disproportional balance. And at some point geography has to play a part. Kansas has to be taken by the Big 10 to really even consider nabbing the Sooners. So if you divide them up 1 to each surviving conference Texas is the only one with long enough coattails to bring a T.C.U. or Tech along with an Oklahoma State or Kansas State to the PAC and therefore the only one that really could place enough to achieve dissolution. If ESPN and/or FOX gain a bit of the PAC for that move I think the ESPN buys back those ACC rights and you get your network anyway. It's probably unfortunate that this would please Chapel Hill.

ND's status as a King has nothing to do with this, imho. It would be like saying well the B1G got a King recently in Nebraska so they get "locked" out from either OU or UT this around. That is not ESPN and FOX working together, since FOX's biggest investment going forward will be the B1G (which will become apparent when they get a least a piece of the B1G Tier 1 content in the next round) and the SEC is the World Wide Leader's biggest investment going forward.

Again, if they are truly working together, both of the Greater 2 need to wind up with one of the two remaining Kings in the B12. Otherwise it is not working together, plain and simple.

Cheers,
Neil

(07-02-2015 06:47 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 12:38 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:52 PM)omniorange Wrote:  If both networks do work together on this behind the scenes and each get 1 of the 4 (which I assume are UT, OU, KS, and WVU) then I would think the B1G has to wind up with either UT or OU and SEC the same. The PAC would have to wind up with KS and the ACC with WVU (if the 4 indeed needed to be divided up, but I don't think it really matters once you get below the 2 Kings).

Now one of them could working on their own, possibly bring about OU and KS to the B1G and UT and TTU to the PAC, or the other one bring about OU and WVU or OSU or Baylor to the SEC and UT and TCU or Baylor to the ACC.

But if they work together then each of the Greater 2 conferences get 1 of the 2 Kings or it's really not working together, plain and simple.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil I think just the opposite is true here. Remember N.D. is a king as well and their presence immensely helps the ACC in the public's mindset. Texas is way bigger than Oklahoma in terms of market and their national images are relatively close to one another in terms of brand strength. But Texas to either the PAC or ACC brings more balance to the 4 conferences than Texas to the Big 10 or SEC where their presence brings more distance. Oklahoma to the SEC with say a Baylor would be muted in terms of disproportional balance. And at some point geography has to play a part. Kansas has to be taken by the Big 10 to really even consider nabbing the Sooners. So if you divide them up 1 to each surviving conference Texas is the only one with long enough coattails to bring a T.C.U. or Tech along with an Oklahoma State or Kansas State to the PAC and therefore the only one that really could place enough to achieve dissolution. If ESPN and/or FOX gain a bit of the PAC for that move I think the ESPN buys back those ACC rights and you get your network anyway. It's probably unfortunate that this would please Chapel Hill.

ND's status as a King has nothing to do with this, imho. It would be like saying well the B1G got a King recently in Nebraska so they get "locked" out from either OU or UT this around. That is not ESPN and FOX working together, since FOX's biggest investment going forward will be the B1G (which will become apparent when they get a least a piece of the B1G Tier 1 content in the next round) and the SEC is the World Wide Leader's biggest investment going forward.

Again, if they are truly working together, both of the Greater 2 need to wind up with one of the two remaining Kings in the B12. Otherwise it is not working together, plain and simple.

Cheers,
Neil

Believe me if Texas goes to the PAC they almost have to be working together. Texas to the Big 10 could signify it, OU to the Big 10 would mean just the opposite since they are the only prime B12 property more closely aligned with FOX. Texas to the ACC or SEC is just good business for ESPN.

JR do you work in the broadcast industry?