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NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #161
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-23-2015 12:03 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Just a heads up, Milwaukee does not have an arena in place as of now and is very much a relocation candidate as we speak: maybe something changes but right now they are considered one foot out the door.

Huh? The arena deal passed the Wisconsin State Senate,which was arguably the toughest hurdle by far. Everyone predicts it will pass the Assembly in some form or anther next week. I think the vote has been called for Tuesday or Wednesday. The Governor fully supports the bill and will sign it. A foot out the door? Way overstated. I would say there is a less than 1% chance things fall through. Could they? Yes, but highly, highly doubtful. Bucks anticipate a shovel in the ground within the next couple of months.
07-24-2015 10:59 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #162
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-24-2015 10:59 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 12:03 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Just a heads up, Milwaukee does not have an arena in place as of now and is very much a relocation candidate as we speak: maybe something changes but right now they are considered one foot out the door.

Huh? The arena deal passed the Wisconsin State Senate,which was arguably the toughest hurdle by far. Everyone predicts it will pass the Assembly in some form or anther next week. I think the vote has been called for Tuesday or Wednesday. The Governor fully supports the bill and will sign it. A foot out the door? Way overstated. I would say there is a less than 1% chance things fall through. Could they? Yes, but highly, highly doubtful. Bucks anticipate a shovel in the ground within the next couple of months.

It is not a done deal. And the NBA has said as much, with the threat of relocation still lingering.
07-24-2015 11:22 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #163
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
NHL realignment/expansion fans should check out this website with a seemingly unlimited appetite for off-the-wall scenarios: http://www.tomfulery.com/nhl-realignment-maps/

An idea not mentioned there that might or might not work, if Vegas and QC both get franchises, is for the NHL to have one 8-team division composed of the Canadian teams. I guess that would make the western division Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles, San Jose, plus three of Chicago, Dallas, Minnesota, and St. Louis. Still not ideal. The Canadian teams would have much more travel, but all NHL teams would have to cross the border and go through customs less often.
07-27-2015 01:04 PM
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Post: #164
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-27-2015 01:04 PM)Wedge Wrote:  NHL realignment/expansion fans should check out this website with a seemingly unlimited appetite for off-the-wall scenarios: http://www.tomfulery.com/nhl-realignment-maps/

An idea not mentioned there that might or might not work, if Vegas and QC both get franchises, is for the NHL to have one 8-team division composed of the Canadian teams. I guess that would make the western division Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles, San Jose, plus three of Chicago, Dallas, Minnesota, and St. Louis. Still not ideal. The Canadian teams would have much more travel, but all NHL teams would have to cross the border and go through customs less often.

I played around with a north/south but got bored and quit.
07-27-2015 02:13 PM
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #165
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-24-2015 11:22 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 10:59 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 12:03 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Just a heads up, Milwaukee does not have an arena in place as of now and is very much a relocation candidate as we speak: maybe something changes but right now they are considered one foot out the door.

Huh? The arena deal passed the Wisconsin State Senate,which was arguably the toughest hurdle by far. Everyone predicts it will pass the Assembly in some form or anther next week. I think the vote has been called for Tuesday or Wednesday. The Governor fully supports the bill and will sign it. A foot out the door? Way overstated. I would say there is a less than 1% chance things fall through. Could they? Yes, but highly, highly doubtful. Bucks anticipate a shovel in the ground within the next couple of months.

It is not a done deal. And the NBA has said as much, with the threat of relocation still lingering.

Arena passed the Assembly today, all that is left is the Governor's signature. He has said repeatedly that he will sign it. Now, will you concede that the Bucks aren't moving?
07-28-2015 02:08 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #166
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-28-2015 02:08 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 11:22 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 10:59 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 12:03 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Just a heads up, Milwaukee does not have an arena in place as of now and is very much a relocation candidate as we speak: maybe something changes but right now they are considered one foot out the door.

Huh? The arena deal passed the Wisconsin State Senate,which was arguably the toughest hurdle by far. Everyone predicts it will pass the Assembly in some form or anther next week. I think the vote has been called for Tuesday or Wednesday. The Governor fully supports the bill and will sign it. A foot out the door? Way overstated. I would say there is a less than 1% chance things fall through. Could they? Yes, but highly, highly doubtful. Bucks anticipate a shovel in the ground within the next couple of months.

It is not a done deal. And the NBA has said as much, with the threat of relocation still lingering.

Arena passed the Assembly today, all that is left is the Governor's signature. He has said repeatedly that he will sign it. Now, will you concede that the Bucks aren't moving?

If they stay they stay. But at the time of my post, I was absolutely correct. I don't care what has happened since then.
07-28-2015 02:24 PM
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #167
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
The chances of the Bucks moving were always slim/none. The NBA didn't want them to move (per Silver's repeated statements) and the deal that Kohl struck with the new owners and the NBA almost assured the Bucks would remain in Milwaukee. If the arena wasn't agreed to by 2017, the new owners had to sell the team back to the NBA for $550 million, giving them a mere profit of $50 million. No way the new owners would give up the franchise to the NBA for that amount. Even if the new owners had to kick in another $250 million of their own money to build the arena, the team could have been sold for significantly more than the $750 million they would have spent for the team and the arena, especially after the Clippers were just sold for $2 billion, without an arena. Kohl saved the Bucks from moving in the 80s and did is again when he sold the team. He was a crappy owner in terms of wins and losses, but he secured the future of the franchise in Milwaukee.
07-28-2015 02:45 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #168
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-28-2015 02:45 PM)MU88 Wrote:  The chances of the Bucks moving were always slim/none. The NBA didn't want them to move (per Silver's repeated statements) and the deal that Kohl struck with the new owners and the NBA almost assured the Bucks would remain in Milwaukee.

Adam Silver, not the owner, is the one who made the relocation threat. So no that is not true. It is always implied that if a current city meets their demands, the team will remain (unless you are Seattle and build a new stadium to meet demands, then lose your team ten years later), but the commission is the one who made the relocation threat, then the vote happened. So to say there was no threat of a move, and Adam Silver was the one who was to make sure of that, is false.
07-28-2015 02:50 PM
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #169
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-28-2015 02:50 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(07-28-2015 02:45 PM)MU88 Wrote:  The chances of the Bucks moving were always slim/none. The NBA didn't want them to move (per Silver's repeated statements) and the deal that Kohl struck with the new owners and the NBA almost assured the Bucks would remain in Milwaukee.

Adam Silver, not the owner, is the one who made the relocation threat. So no that is not true. It is always implied that if a current city meets their demands, the team will remain (unless you are Seattle and build a new stadium to meet demands, then lose your team ten years later), but the commission is the one who made the relocation threat, then the vote happened. So to say there was no threat of a move, and Adam Silver was the one who was to make sure of that, is false.

Really? Silver has repeatedly said that he expected the Bucks to get a new arena and that the team would stay in Milwaukee.

July 15, 2015:

Speculation about the Milwaukee Bucks relocating to Las Vegas or anywhere else is “not realistic,” said NBA commissioner Adam Silver, who said he still believes an arena-funding deal will be achieved in Wisconsin.

February 16, 2015:

“I’ve said it on so many occasions. We love our fans in Seattle,” Silver said. “We are very appreciative of the fact that they continue to follow NBA basketball. I wish we had a team to give them. We just don’t.”

January 23, 2015:

In an interview with the Seattle Times, Murray said he believed the Bucks might be a relocation candidate if the Milwaukee franchise can't get a new arena deal. The Bucks are facing an NBA-imposed deadline of the fall of 2017 to have an arena in place.

But after meeting with Silver, Murray told the newspaper that the commissioner shot down any chance of moving Milwaukee.

"They were very clear that they see them staying," Murray told the newspaper.
07-29-2015 10:20 AM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #170
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
The NHL could add Montana and North Dakota State
07-29-2015 10:27 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #171
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-29-2015 10:20 AM)MU88 Wrote:  Really? Silver has repeatedly said that he expected the Bucks to get a new arena and that the team would stay in Milwaukee.

Since this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I will let this die. But you are only quoting things from the past few months. You need to go back further. HE stated explicitly that a new arena was needed in Milwaukee, or the Bucks would need to leave. HE is the one who started the relocation threat. Then once progress was made, he played the role of cheerleader to get it moving. You know, just like Stern used to do.
07-29-2015 11:21 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #172
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-27-2015 01:04 PM)Wedge Wrote:  NHL realignment/expansion fans should check out this website with a seemingly unlimited appetite for off-the-wall scenarios: http://www.tomfulery.com/nhl-realignment-maps/

An idea not mentioned there that might or might not work, if Vegas and QC both get franchises, is for the NHL to have one 8-team division composed of the Canadian teams. I guess that would make the western division Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles, San Jose, plus three of Chicago, Dallas, Minnesota, and St. Louis. Still not ideal. The Canadian teams would have much more travel, but all NHL teams would have to cross the border and go through customs less often.

Yeah, there are all kinds of wacky scenarios there.

If you are going to do that, why not just go with an "The Original Six" division of the O6 (MTL, TOR, BOS, DET, CHI, NYR) plus two more (QC and OTT perhaps).

Original Six:
BOS
CHI
DET
MTL
NYR
OTT
TOR
QC

East:
BUF
CAR
CBJ
NJ
NYI
PHI
PIT
WAS

Sunbelt:
ANA
AZ
DAL
FLA
LA
LV
SJ
TB

North:
COL
CGY
EDM
MIN
NAS
STL
VAN
WPG

One of those divisions would be great for all concerned. The Atlantic would also be just fine. The other two would be works in progress. However, this alignment would ensure an O6 team in the Final Four every single year - and that means ratings.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2015 01:26 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-29-2015 01:21 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #173
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-29-2015 10:27 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  The NHL could add Montana and North Dakota State


And Liberty
07-29-2015 03:46 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #174
NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-29-2015 10:27 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  The NHL could add Montana and North Dakota State
The NFL maybe, but Montana and NDSU aren't the hockey powers.

Adding North Dakota to the NHL adds no new TV sets, as the Minnesota Wild cover that area via Fox Sports North. It would make more sense to add Omaha - a big enough city (with an arena in place) that would be far enough away from St. Louis, Denver, the Twin Cities, and even Winnipeg. Even then there aren't enough TV sets in Nebraska and Western Iowa to justify it (but if Warren Buffett's name is on the application, I'm sure the NHL will make it work).
07-29-2015 08:23 PM
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westwolf Offline
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Post: #175
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
Best idea would have been this in 1967:

National - Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Montreal, NY Rangers, Toronto (original 6)
American- Baltimore, Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh (from AHL), NY second team, Philadelphia
Central - Minnesota, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City, Dallas, Houston
Western - Los Angeles, San Francisco, Vancouver, Seattle, Portland (from WHL), Colorado
07-30-2015 06:48 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #176
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
There was nowhere near enough talent to accommodate that many teams in 1967. There wasn't enough talent to fill 12 rosters.

When people talk about that issue now, they underestimate how much the game has grown. There are so many more NHL caliber players now than there were even 16 years ago. The sport has grown tremendously.

What kind of a league expands by 100%? Absurd.

Then they put all of the expansion teams in the same division and of course they were destroyed year after year, after year, in the Stanley Cup Finals.

The NHL is my favorite professional sport. I think it is endlessly fascinating. However, as a business entity they are incredibly dumb and dysfunctional.
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2015 08:06 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-31-2015 08:04 AM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #177
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-23-2015 09:13 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 12:39 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(07-22-2015 09:38 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(07-21-2015 09:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  How would Las Vegas and Quebec impact divisional alignment?

Atlantic (Quebec City)
Metropolitan (Boston)
Central (Columbus)
Pacific (Las Vegas)

They're not going to split up Boston and Montreal. That's another of the NHL's best rivalries and it would be like splitting up the Yankees and the Red Sox or Duke and North Carolina. It is not going to happen.

That said, someone from the Atlantic is going to have to move to the Metropolitan. My guess is that team will be Detroit but I guess Buffalo would also be a consideration.

I am not too sure if the Sabres fans would be keen on losing their Toronto rivalry. However, they would more frequently play in-state rivals the Rangers and the Islanders; and the Devils are just across the river from New York City.

Also, Pittsburgh is just three hours south of Buffalo. I've always thought that those two teams to develop a fierce rivalry if both were in the same division and competitive at the same time.

Yes the NHL's new alignment does place great emphasis on rivalries. Quebec City I would think be slotted for the Atlantic right off the bat for that reason so they can square against Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto.

Another realignment plan:

Atlantic (Quebec City, Pittsburgh)
Metropolitan (Tampa Bay, Florida)
Central (Columbus)
Pacific (Las Vegas)

I am of the thought that NY-NJ region and Carolina would be receptive to Florida exposure. Pittsburgh could probably live with the Atlantic since it would be a fantastic division with 4 Canadian teams and Boston, Detroit, Buffalo.

Columbus I'm sure doesn't care where its placed. It will be on the edge of the Atlantic, Metropolitan or Central Division. The basic fact is someone has to move to the Western Conference.

Again, that would definitely not work. When the NHL floated its initial realignment plan the last time, one of the models discussed had Pittsburgh moving to the Atlantic.

That doesn't work because two of the NHL's premier rivalries are Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and Washington.

Basically, Ed Snider, who owns Comcast/Universal (NBC), and also the Philadelphia Flyers, stepped in and put the kibosh on that plan, which is how Tampa Bay and Florida ended up in a division with the likes of Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal. It was absolutely the right call. You don't make more money by having fewer games featuring Crosby and Ovechkin or the hate-filled Pittsburgh/Philadelphia rivalry.

Really, it is very simple. What they're trying to do is kinda/sorta re-create the format they had in the '80s and early '90s that featured teams having to fight their way out of their own division to the conference finals and eventually to the Stanley Cup finals.

They were the Adams and Patrick divisions in the East (Prince of Wales Conference) and the Smythe and Norris divisions in the West (Clarence Campbell Conference).

Honestly, it is an excellent plan and probably the NHL's best idea since centralizing replay to a command center.

In Pittsburgh's case, they were in the Patrick Division with New York, Long Island, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Washington. That may have been the perfect division in the NHL as every team was reasonably close to each other and there was a guaranteed hatred no matter who played whom. Also, because the arenas are all within a relatively easy drive of each other, those buildings were always full for divisional games.

Obviously, when you start going to 8-team divisions, that gets diluted a little. However, it would be ridiculous to move Pittsburgh away from all of its traditional rivals. That doesn't make sense. Also, it doesn't make sense to take the guy who is generally considered the best player in the world and have him play in New York less frequently.

You have to keep Pittsburgh and Philadelphia together. Their games are compelling and draw TV many more viewers than most other NHL games and there games fill each team's arena. In fact, there is a rumor that has been floating around for a few years now and which has become louder that Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are going to play an outdoor game at Penn State, which is located roughly halfway between Pennsylvania's two major cities. If that happens, I guarantee you they will sell out 106,000 seat Beaver Stadium.

It makes no sense to split up that type of power.

This. Adding Columbus and Carolina were necessary evils to get the old band back together, but they aren't so ridiculously outside that tight mid-Atlantic footprint (you could even argue Raleigh/Durham is mid-Atlantic) that its crazy. Plus Columbus is about 3 hours from Pittsburgh.
08-26-2015 09:37 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #178
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(07-29-2015 03:46 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 10:27 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  The NHL could add Montana and North Dakota State


And Liberty

Liberty will sue the NHL if they don't get an invitation to join. 05-stirthepot
08-26-2015 12:38 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #179
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
(08-26-2015 12:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 03:46 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 10:27 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  The NHL could add Montana and North Dakota State


And Liberty

Liberty will sue the NHL if they don't get an invitation to join. 05-stirthepot

Virginia Beach approved a private arena, whose investors want to attract an NHL team.

Broward County will give the Florida Panthers $86 million in benefits if they stay.

The Phoenix Coyotes will either move to the old Sun's remodeled arena or a new arena on the campus of Ariz St.

The Seattle SoDo arena is tentatively on. They just need an NBA team to get a share of the public trough.

With the troubled franchises now stabilized, expect an expansion announcement next year that could include:

Las Vegas
Quebec City
Seattle
Virginia Beach/Tidewater/Norfolk
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2015 06:34 PM by NoDak.)
12-12-2015 05:49 PM
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Post: #180
RE: NHL looking for expansion candidates officially now?
According to the company that is running this new arena deal in Virginia Beach, they have talked to NHL officals about a new team as well as 2 current NHL team to possibly relocate (Florida and Carolina).

I hope its Carolina honestly. One: Im a Canes fan and Two: that takes out one of the reasons the NHL might pass us up being sandwiched between RD and DC.

Hopefully we get a team before Milwaukee does so they dont take our name.
12-12-2015 06:58 PM
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