(07-15-2015 08:27 PM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 08:25 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Ha, having to stay off Facebook nw because my daughter isn't happy with me because I don't agree about the Arthur Ashe Award for Courage.

Went to the wrong... lady.

Guess dealing with cancer is so 00s.

It's a political award, much like Nobel Peace Prize.

What Jenner did is courageous to a segment of the population and that's wonderful. That said i had nothing to do with athletics, the basketball player with cancer showed courage in and was playing in this last year.

Expletive deleted... Expletive deleted.

(07-15-2015 09:56 PM)slycat Wrote:  What Jenner did is courageous to a segment of the population and that's wonderful. That said i had nothing to do with athletics, the basketball player with cancer showed courage in and was playing in this last year.

Yup, fully agree.

Didn't watch at all, grandson visiting. When I see Jenner, all I can think of is Mr./Mrs. Garrison on Southpark when he asked the surgeon how his lady parts were going to be made.

Two a days can't get here fast enough.

(07-15-2015 09:56 PM)slycat Wrote:  What Jenner did is courageous to a segment of the population and that's wonderful. That said i had nothing to do with athletics, the basketball player with cancer showed courage in and was playing in this last year.

There is no evidence that sex-reassignment surgery is a cure for gender dysphoria. In fact there are longitudinal studies that show it is not effective. Telling people you need expensive and complicated surgery in order to be well-adjusted does a disservice to people with gender dysphoria.

It's not courageous, and it's certainly not more courageous than an Iraq vet with two limbs competing in sports and a cancer victim making the most of life.

At one time, Jenner was a famous athlete. And a great one. That's the sports tie-in. And, my guess is ESPN's rationale is Jenner's courage is doing something so controversial and then facing society day in and day out knowing so many people are going to consider you some kind of freak.

I also think maybe it's easier being courageous when people are on your side and telling you how brave you are, as is case with those injured in combat or fighting terminal diseases. And what's their option? To fight, or to give up.

On flip side, doubt too many people were patting Jenner on the back or urging him to have his willie wonkered, or whatever goes on in that surgery. And he's got to know a lot of people find what he did repulsive, or twisted.

Note that I really don't care what Jenner did, does or will do. He could come back in five years deciding he's happier as a golden retriever for all I care. I just find it interesting he chose the name Caitlin, or Caitlyn, or however it's spelled. The dude's in his 60s. Shoulda called himself Barbara or Joan or something. Would've been a little more age-appropriate, I think.

^Agreed. The stigma attached is huge and Jenner is facing it head on, not behind closed doors or in a small circle.

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I tend to agree with what you the two of you are saying, but it should also be noted that Jenner is profitting off of his "courageousness" to an extent that the other two probably didn't, although they probably raised money for their own treatments or for research, etc. through their stories.

Seems to me that any of them could have reasonably won it. I don't know that I could tell you a single previous winner of the Arthur Ashe award, so I'm certainly not going to start splitting hairs on the judgment criteria now.

(07-16-2015 12:25 PM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  ^
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I tend to agree with what you the two of you are saying, but it should also be noted that Jenner is profitting off of his "courageousness" to an extent that the other two probably didn't, although they probably raised money for their own treatments or for research, etc. through their stories.

Truly courageous would have been to "come out" 15-20 years ago when it wasn't as accepted as it is now. But that might have cost him a few of those $100,000 each motivational speaking engagements. He will make huge amounts of money, and more importantly for him, continue to be relevant.

The only problem I have with Jenner getting the award is that it seems purposely timed and very political. I think it's a very courageous move by Jenner, and certainly qualifies for the Arthur Ashe Courage Award...it just feels like this award was based more on current events in the US than it was on the actual courage involved.

Stuart Scott's award last year was one of the more awesome moments I've seen out of the ESPY's...this one just felt more contrived and planned.