(06-24-2015 06:16 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 09:35 PM)RaiderRed Wrote:  Houston is doing the same thing.

To be fair, the entire American conference has invested heavily in facilities. In recent years:

SMU, UConn, UCF, Tulane, Houston have built entirely new football stadiums while Cincy and ECU have spent a ton of money expanding their stadiums.

SMU, UConn, ECU and Houston have built dedicated new basketball practice facilities.

UCF and Tulsa built new basketball arenas while USF, SMU and Cincy spent a ton of money on major renovations. Houston plans a renovation as well.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. And I have not kept track of all the indoor football facilities, etc.

This. Almost the entire conference is engaging in major upgrades. The intent is for the entire conference to well establish itself to the best degree possible. Meaning, close as possible to the P5, far as possible from the rest of the G5. Which is exactly what the AAC should be doing...

(06-24-2015 09:41 AM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 09:07 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 10:55 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 09:36 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  I'd love to see Houston land on their feet, but I just can't imagine the BigXII taking yet ANOTHER Texas school...

Some people seem to think that the Big 12 needs new TV markets and if that's the case there are only 2 schools in the g-5 who actually own the TV's in their state. BYU and UConn.

I'd probably rather have Cinci and Houston to be honest. Lots of Big 12 alum in the Houston area so that stadium would be filled. Both have had past success in their AD including BCS games (Cinci) and a Heisman (Houston). Both have recently remodeled stadiums and I'm not sure about Houston but I know Cinci is spending P-% money on TT. I guess I think they are both a better fit than BYU, UConn, or a Florida directional.

We don't get paid per viewer for a conference network so adding highly populated states is really not that important to the BIi 12 as evidence when they added TCU and WVU adding less than 2 million viewers total while other conferences with networks looked to add highly populated states. Hell Boise is probably as valuable to us as anybody available as they have some national appeal.

I'd rather take on 2 schools, 8 conference games, and a CCG than have a 10 team conference playing a 9 game RR with 2 champions. I'm not a big fan of our leaderships long term planning, if there actually is any.

This point is moot, as there are plenty P5 teams that don't completely own their respective markets. There are also G5 schools that own large portions of their market to be lucrative to break into that DMA for conference television contracts, Cincinnati being one of them.

Never said there wasn't. The only g-5 schools who are #1 in their state are BYU and UConn. Everyone else in the g-5 including Cinci is #2 or worse in their state.

Actually that's not 100% true. I suppose there are a few others like Boise who might bring the entire state. But the state has no real value.

Byu doesn't own their state, according to the NYT. UCF is also number one their market according to the NYT. I can't speak to UC as I honestly don't know where they are within their market. Being #2 in your state isn't a bad thing, example fsu is #2 in Florida. If the goal is adding markets why not focus on markets and not state footprint. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/...3,-105.341

(06-24-2015 10:21 AM)Bull Wrote:  This. Almost the entire conference is engaging in major upgrades. The intent is for the entire conference to well establish itself to the best degree possible. Meaning, close as possible to the P5, far as possible from the rest of the G5. Which is exactly what the AAC should be doing...

Were Utah and TCU trying to make the MWC look better? No.

The intent of each program is not to make its conference look better, but to put themselves in position to grab a P5 golden ticket if the opportunity arises.

(06-24-2015 10:09 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 09:41 AM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 09:07 AM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 10:55 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 09:36 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  I'd love to see Houston land on their feet, but I just can't imagine the BigXII taking yet ANOTHER Texas school...

Some people seem to think that the Big 12 needs new TV markets and if that's the case there are only 2 schools in the g-5 who actually own the TV's in their state. BYU and UConn.

I'd probably rather have Cinci and Houston to be honest. Lots of Big 12 alum in the Houston area so that stadium would be filled. Both have had past success in their AD including BCS games (Cinci) and a Heisman (Houston). Both have recently remodeled stadiums and I'm not sure about Houston but I know Cinci is spending P-% money on TT. I guess I think they are both a better fit than BYU, UConn, or a Florida directional.

We don't get paid per viewer for a conference network so adding highly populated states is really not that important to the BIi 12 as evidence when they added TCU and WVU adding less than 2 million viewers total while other conferences with networks looked to add highly populated states. Hell Boise is probably as valuable to us as anybody available as they have some national appeal.

I'd rather take on 2 schools, 8 conference games, and a CCG than have a 10 team conference playing a 9 game RR with 2 champions. I'm not a big fan of our leaderships long term planning, if there actually is any.

This point is moot, as there are plenty P5 teams that don't completely own their respective markets. There are also G5 schools that own large portions of their market to be lucrative to break into that DMA for conference television contracts, Cincinnati being one of them.

Never said there wasn't. The only g-5 schools who are #1 in their state are BYU and UConn. Everyone else in the g-5 including Cinci is #2 or worse in their state.

Actually that's not 100% true. I suppose there are a few others like Boise who might bring the entire state. But the state has no real value.

Actually there's several states with no P5's or pro teams: *Connecticut, Maine, R.I.
New Hampshire, Vermont, Delaware, Idaho, Hawaii, New Mexico, Wyoming. Nevada, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and Alaska. Am I forgetting any? I think out of those 15 only UCONN & the 5 MWC states have FBS programs, the other 5 New England states have FCS programs, the Dakotas and Montana the same, and I think Alaska is the only state out of our 50 with no football program that's at least FCS. *Connecticut has WNBA
Can Anyone verify this? Cheers!

This map pretty much verifies what you're saying.

(06-23-2015 09:35 PM)RaiderRed Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 08:49 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  If nothing else, they know that it's better to be PROactive as oppose to REactive....

Houston is doing the same thing. UH and Cincy to the Big 12 on Feb 31st, 2016.

Start poppin bottles

Is that a Tuesday?

(06-24-2015 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 08:49 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 07:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 04:15 AM)rednblackattack Wrote:  Good for UC. They deserve to be in a P5 League. The Big 12 would be foolish not to take them.

Cincy is very much like Louisville, a big factor in a semi-big city but basically nothing outside that city and otherwise adrift in an ocean of fans of other P5 teams.

And remember, despite UofL's amazing facilities - better than Cincy will have even after these renovations - and better success on the field, UofL only got a P5 bid when Maryland dumped the ACC. Before that, they were passed over 6 times in favor of other Big East teams.

Cincy doesn't bring a lot to the table for the Big 12. They aren't a football brand name and given Bucks dominance everywhere around them, their growth potential is essentially nil. I don't expect the Big 12 to ever proactively want them.

Cincy fans shouldn't expect a P5 invite unless a raid by another P5 forces a P5 conference to backfill, like the ACC did with UofL. Absent that, it never happens.

Kudos to Cincy for gamely making these investments. Doesn't hurt to be dressed up for the prom in case someone else loses their date and makes a call.

You Do realize a lot of P5 schools Today would Not be in a P5 Conferences had They not been grandfathered into the System 40 to 100 years ago out of convenience, availability, or Geography.

I absolutely realize that, and nothing I said in the post you responded to indicated otherwise.

Quote: Actually We were only passed over 1 time and by the Big 12 with WVU. We never applied to The B1G, Pac 12 or the SEC.

My bad - you were actually passed over FIVE times, not six.

"Application"? Everyone knew UofL was 100% available to any of the other Power conferences, all they had to do was invite you.

And yet nobody did. They invited five Big East schools - TCU, WVU, Pitt, Cuse, Rutgers, before they invited you. So you guys were far down the list in terms of attractiveness, and obviously Cincy has even less of that than you guys did.

Quote:Your Slap at Louisville and Cincinnati Markets are mostly unfounded.

Totally founded. But Cincy is in even worse shape than UofL was. UofL is hemmed in by UK fans, but only really in basketball. UK's historical lack of interest in football has given UofL space to grow your football program, and you've done that. But Cincy is hemmed in by the Buckeyes in both basketball and football.

And they don't even 'control' Cincy because that is foremost a Pro sports town. Interest in the Bearcats lags way behind Bengals and Reds. At least UofL is the Big Kahuna within the UofL city limits, Cincy isn't even that.

LOL uh no

OSU basketball is a total non starter in the city of Cincinnati. UC and XU have had good enough teams and programs over the years that OSU hoops just doesn't play here at all. The last poll that came out OSU hoops was rated like #14 in the fan polls in Cincy. OSU football doesn't have a stronghold in the town, but there are fans. OSU hoops isn't even on radar. They have a good hoops program at OSU, sure. But that isn't the discussion. The discussion is fan interest. UC/XU hoops have huge followings in town. OSU hoops, no.

So no, UC isn't 'hemmed in' by Ohio State basketball. The fact that we were recently rated the #10 basketball program all time (in front of Ohio State) in the Sporting News is a testament to what I'm saying.

I still think the Big XII goofed by not taking Louisville and Cincinnati when they took West Virginia. That was a BIG mistake by them, IMHO. Had they taken the Cardinals and the Bearcats, the Mountaineers would not be on an island and that league would have a legitimate foothold in the talent-rich Ohio Valley. Also, with the commitment UofL and UC have shown, they would have been assets to that league as well.

That's water over the dam now, so there's no use in revisiting that flub. Now, I would seriously consider adding Cincinnati and Central Florida with the option of later also adding Connecticut and South Florida.

BYU is a great school with a huge following but it also comes with tons of restrictions. Also, that time zone thing is a killer. Personally, I'd go East if I were the B12.

(06-24-2015 10:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 10:21 AM)Bull Wrote:  This. Almost the entire conference is engaging in major upgrades. The intent is for the entire conference to well establish itself to the best degree possible. Meaning, close as possible to the P5, far as possible from the rest of the G5. Which is exactly what the AAC should be doing...

Were Utah and TCU trying to make the MWC look better? No.

The intent of each program is not to make its conference look better, but to put themselves in position to grab a P5 golden ticket if the opportunity arises.

Agreed. The conference benefit is ancillary.

(06-24-2015 07:21 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 06:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I would have thought the only other Texas school to have a shot at the Big XII was Rice. They seem aimless, but who knows.

Aimless? Athletic Director Joe Karlgaard came to us from Stanford, and is one of the Sports Business Journal's 40 Under 40 best and brightest across all sports, including pro.

Tudor Fieldhouse has been renovated in a $30M project. Rice hired Mike Rhoades from Shaka Smart's VCU staff, and we stepped up and retained him when VCU came looking after Shaka went to Texas. The future basketball recruits committed to Rice are eye-opening.

Football is in a $32M end zone facility construction that starts the stadium renovations. Texas A&M, Baylor, Stanford, Wake Forest and Boise State are on future home schedules. All 12 2015 games will be televised, and the Owls are among the favorites in C-USA.

We just built a new $8M tennis facility, and the University is spending $3M on a new track stadium.

The aim is to elevate Rice University to a place of broadly recognized excellence and distinction.

http://www.rice.edu/athleticsvision/

Plenty to be excited about at Rice.

Yes, there is plenty to be excited about, especially when not too long ago, the school was considering its overall athletic placement with some in power who didn't see the point in "keeping up." Even this, though, while significant, isn't yet "keeping up." Keeping up is being able to lose a Karlgaard and Rhoades and immediately replacing them with someone their equal or better; sustaining or maintaining systems given the place of the program among its peers (which isn't Wake, Stanford, Duke, or Northwestern yet). It is way too early to tell how it's going.

I want to see Rice succeed, but you pose it in a way that Rice figured it all out. They haven't. They're in CUSA while others got ahead because they didn't commit to those millions sooner. Spirited by conviction or coerced by logic...I would hope Rice is the former in these investments, but prior work suggests it's a blend of the two or more the latter. We shall see.

(06-24-2015 10:21 AM)Bull Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 06:16 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 09:35 PM)RaiderRed Wrote:  Houston is doing the same thing.

To be fair, the entire American conference has invested heavily in facilities. In recent years:

SMU, UConn, UCF, Tulane, Houston have built entirely new football stadiums while Cincy and ECU have spent a ton of money expanding their stadiums.

SMU, UConn, ECU and Houston have built dedicated new basketball practice facilities.

UCF and Tulsa built new basketball arenas while USF, SMU and Cincy spent a ton of money on major renovations. Houston plans a renovation as well.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. And I have not kept track of all the indoor football facilities, etc.

This. Almost the entire conference is engaging in major upgrades. The intent is for the entire conference to well establish itself to the best degree possible. Meaning, close as possible to the P5, far as possible from the rest of the G5. Which is exactly what the AAC should be doing...

USF's intent is to upgrade our facilities and do whatever else we can to separate ourselves from the rest of the AAC and other G5 schools so that if a P5 needs a new school, we're at the top of the list. Other AAC schools are rivals, not partners. We all want the same thing - P5 membership.

That's the only "separation" that matters, not AAC separation from the G5, which is an oxymoron.

(06-24-2015 10:42 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 08:49 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 07:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 04:15 AM)rednblackattack Wrote:  Good for UC. They deserve to be in a P5 League. The Big 12 would be foolish not to take them.

Cincy is very much like Louisville, a big factor in a semi-big city but basically nothing outside that city and otherwise adrift in an ocean of fans of other P5 teams.

And remember, despite UofL's amazing facilities - better than Cincy will have even after these renovations - and better success on the field, UofL only got a P5 bid when Maryland dumped the ACC. Before that, they were passed over 6 times in favor of other Big East teams.

Cincy doesn't bring a lot to the table for the Big 12. They aren't a football brand name and given Bucks dominance everywhere around them, their growth potential is essentially nil. I don't expect the Big 12 to ever proactively want them.

Cincy fans shouldn't expect a P5 invite unless a raid by another P5 forces a P5 conference to backfill, like the ACC did with UofL. Absent that, it never happens.

Kudos to Cincy for gamely making these investments. Doesn't hurt to be dressed up for the prom in case someone else loses their date and makes a call.

You Do realize a lot of P5 schools Today would Not be in a P5 Conferences had They not been grandfathered into the System 40 to 100 years ago out of convenience, availability, or Geography.

I absolutely realize that, and nothing I said in the post you responded to indicated otherwise.

Quote: Actually We were only passed over 1 time and by the Big 12 with WVU. We never applied to The B1G, Pac 12 or the SEC.

My bad - you were actually passed over FIVE times, not six.

"Application"? Everyone knew UofL was 100% available to any of the other Power conferences, all they had to do was invite you.

And yet nobody did. They invited five Big East schools - TCU, WVU, Pitt, Cuse, Rutgers, before they invited you. So you guys were far down the list in terms of attractiveness, and obviously Cincy has even less of that than you guys did.

Quote:Your Slap at Louisville and Cincinnati Markets are mostly unfounded.

Totally founded. But Cincy is in even worse shape than UofL was. UofL is hemmed in by UK fans, but only really in basketball. UK's historical lack of interest in football has given UofL space to grow your football program, and you've done that. But Cincy is hemmed in by the Buckeyes in both basketball and football.

And they don't even 'control' Cincy because that is foremost a Pro sports town. Interest in the Bearcats lags way behind Bengals and Reds. At least UofL is the Big Kahuna within the UofL city limits, Cincy isn't even that.

LOL uh no

OSU basketball is a total non starter in the city of Cincinnati. UC and XU have had good enough teams and programs over the years that OSU hoops just doesn't play here at all. The last poll that came out OSU hoops was rated like #14 in the fan polls in Cincy. OSU football doesn't have a stronghold in the town, but there are fans. OSU hoops isn't even on radar. They have a good hoops program at OSU, sure. But that isn't the discussion. The discussion is fan interest. UC/XU hoops have huge followings in town. OSU hoops, no.

So no, UC isn't 'hemmed in' by Ohio State basketball. The fact that we were recently rated the #10 basketball program all time (in front of Ohio State) in the Sporting News is a testament to what I'm saying.

You misunderstood. I didn't say Buckeyes basketball penetrated into Cincy. Cincy, along with Xavier, controls basketball interest within the city.

But outside, it's Bucks country, and that's the sense in which you are hemmed in. You control the city, but everywhere around you, its Buck's country.

(06-24-2015 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 08:49 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 07:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 04:15 AM)rednblackattack Wrote:  Good for UC. They deserve to be in a P5 League. The Big 12 would be foolish not to take them.

Cincy is very much like Louisville, a big factor in a semi-big city but basically nothing outside that city and otherwise adrift in an ocean of fans of other P5 teams.

And remember, despite UofL's amazing facilities - better than Cincy will have even after these renovations - and better success on the field, UofL only got a P5 bid when Maryland dumped the ACC. Before that, they were passed over 6 times in favor of other Big East teams.

Cincy doesn't bring a lot to the table for the Big 12. They aren't a football brand name and given Bucks dominance everywhere around them, their growth potential is essentially nil. I don't expect the Big 12 to ever proactively want them.

Cincy fans shouldn't expect a P5 invite unless a raid by another P5 forces a P5 conference to backfill, like the ACC did with UofL. Absent that, it never happens.

Kudos to Cincy for gamely making these investments. Doesn't hurt to be dressed up for the prom in case someone else loses their date and makes a call.

You Do realize a lot of P5 schools Today would Not be in a P5 Conferences had They not been grandfathered into the System 40 to 100 years ago out of convenience, availability, or Geography.

I absolutely realize that, and nothing I said in the post you responded to indicated otherwise.

Quote: Actually We were only passed over 1 time and by the Big 12 with WVU. We never applied to The B1G, Pac 12 or the SEC.

My bad - you were actually passed over FIVE times, not six.

"Application"? Everyone knew UofL was 100% available to any of the other Power conferences, all they had to do was invite you.

And yet nobody did. They invited five Big East schools - TCU, WVU, Pitt, Cuse, Rutgers, before they invited you. So you guys were far down the list in terms of attractiveness, and obviously Cincy has even less of that than you guys did.

Quote:Your Slap at Louisville and Cincinnati Markets are mostly unfounded.

Totally founded. But Cincy is in even worse shape than UofL was. UofL is hemmed in by UK fans, but only really in basketball. UK's historical lack of interest in football has given UofL space to grow your football program, and you've done that. But Cincy is hemmed in by the Buckeyes in both basketball and football.

And they don't even 'control' Cincy because that is foremost a Pro sports town. Interest in the Bearcats lags way behind Bengals and Reds. At least UofL is the Big Kahuna within the UofL city limits, Cincy isn't even that.

TCU Was inbetween The MWC and BE therefore could jump immediately and already in Big 12 backyard, WVU was a great program and remember would Ditch everything to Jump from the BE without a waiting period. Louisville waited like Pitt & "Cuse did. ND was not Football involved in the move but is a National Icon. Your just throwing Dust in the wrong direction. UC will be most likely P% before USF will.

(06-24-2015 10:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 10:21 AM)Bull Wrote:  This. Almost the entire conference is engaging in major upgrades. The intent is for the entire conference to well establish itself to the best degree possible. Meaning, close as possible to the P5, far as possible from the rest of the G5. Which is exactly what the AAC should be doing...

Were Utah and TCU trying to make the MWC look better? No.

The intent of each program is not to make its conference look better, but to put themselves in position to grab a P5 golden ticket if the opportunity arises.

It should be both and in actuality is whether or not the individual school intends it to be. If no golden ticket comes for anyone in the AAC then the conference is better for all the individual investments member schools have made.

(06-24-2015 10:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 10:21 AM)Bull Wrote:  This. Almost the entire conference is engaging in major upgrades. The intent is for the entire conference to well establish itself to the best degree possible. Meaning, close as possible to the P5, far as possible from the rest of the G5. Which is exactly what the AAC should be doing...

Were Utah and TCU trying to make the MWC look better? No.

The intent of each program is not to make its conference look better, but to put themselves in position to grab a P5 golden ticket if the opportunity arises.

It should be both and in actuality is whether or not the individual school intends it to be. If no golden ticket comes for anyone in the AAC then the conference is better for all the individual investments member schools have made.

I think some of you guys are missing my point. Obviously the PRIMARY goal of the investment is to benefit the school. But it should be just as obvious there is a very tangible benefit the conference. Call it secondary, call it ancillary... whatever, it's still a benefit. The 12 members of the AAC are not joining the P5. Maybe some get an invite, maybe no one does... but collectively all should be interested in seeing the AAC elevated, getting a better TV deal, yada yada.

Sometimes an action can have multiple benefits. It's a good thing.

(06-24-2015 11:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 10:21 AM)Bull Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 06:16 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 09:35 PM)RaiderRed Wrote:  Houston is doing the same thing.

To be fair, the entire American conference has invested heavily in facilities. In recent years:

SMU, UConn, UCF, Tulane, Houston have built entirely new football stadiums while Cincy and ECU have spent a ton of money expanding their stadiums.

SMU, UConn, ECU and Houston have built dedicated new basketball practice facilities.

UCF and Tulsa built new basketball arenas while USF, SMU and Cincy spent a ton of money on major renovations. Houston plans a renovation as well.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. And I have not kept track of all the indoor football facilities, etc.

This. Almost the entire conference is engaging in major upgrades. The intent is for the entire conference to well establish itself to the best degree possible. Meaning, close as possible to the P5, far as possible from the rest of the G5. Which is exactly what the AAC should be doing...

USF's intent is to upgrade our facilities and do whatever else we can to separate ourselves from the rest of the AAC and other G5 schools so that if a P5 needs a new school, we're at the top of the list. Other AAC schools are rivals, not partners. We all want the same thing - P5 membership.

That's the only "separation" that matters, not AAC separation from the G5, which is an oxymoron.

Well you and I will just have to agree to disagree. The conference members are most certainly partners in a number of endeavors. Negotiating a TV deal. Securing Bowl contracts. And in that partnership, you can bet the AAC wants to distance itself from the rest of the G5. If that's offensive to you, so be it. You don't seem to understand that a school can have both self interests, and also common interests with it's conference mates. BOTH.

(06-24-2015 11:19 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  They're in CUSA while others got ahead because they didn't commit to those millions sooner.

Disagree.

First, both C-USA and the AAC are in the G-5. We can debate endlessly how that landscape will look among the five G-5 programs in the future.

Second, we're in C-USA because Houston has more than ten times our enrollment and alumni. Once the AAC had a program in Houston, Rice was not going to be added. Houston and Rice were both behind the curve in committing athletics funds.

(06-24-2015 11:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 10:42 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 08:49 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 07:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Cincy is very much like Louisville, a big factor in a semi-big city but basically nothing outside that city and otherwise adrift in an ocean of fans of other P5 teams.

And remember, despite UofL's amazing facilities - better than Cincy will have even after these renovations - and better success on the field, UofL only got a P5 bid when Maryland dumped the ACC. Before that, they were passed over 6 times in favor of other Big East teams.

Cincy doesn't bring a lot to the table for the Big 12. They aren't a football brand name and given Bucks dominance everywhere around them, their growth potential is essentially nil. I don't expect the Big 12 to ever proactively want them.

Cincy fans shouldn't expect a P5 invite unless a raid by another P5 forces a P5 conference to backfill, like the ACC did with UofL. Absent that, it never happens.

Kudos to Cincy for gamely making these investments. Doesn't hurt to be dressed up for the prom in case someone else loses their date and makes a call.

You Do realize a lot of P5 schools Today would Not be in a P5 Conferences had They not been grandfathered into the System 40 to 100 years ago out of convenience, availability, or Geography.

I absolutely realize that, and nothing I said in the post you responded to indicated otherwise.

Quote: Actually We were only passed over 1 time and by the Big 12 with WVU. We never applied to The B1G, Pac 12 or the SEC.

My bad - you were actually passed over FIVE times, not six.

"Application"? Everyone knew UofL was 100% available to any of the other Power conferences, all they had to do was invite you.

And yet nobody did. They invited five Big East schools - TCU, WVU, Pitt, Cuse, Rutgers, before they invited you. So you guys were far down the list in terms of attractiveness, and obviously Cincy has even less of that than you guys did.

Quote:Your Slap at Louisville and Cincinnati Markets are mostly unfounded.

Totally founded. But Cincy is in even worse shape than UofL was. UofL is hemmed in by UK fans, but only really in basketball. UK's historical lack of interest in football has given UofL space to grow your football program, and you've done that. But Cincy is hemmed in by the Buckeyes in both basketball and football.

And they don't even 'control' Cincy because that is foremost a Pro sports town. Interest in the Bearcats lags way behind Bengals and Reds. At least UofL is the Big Kahuna within the UofL city limits, Cincy isn't even that.

LOL uh no

OSU basketball is a total non starter in the city of Cincinnati. UC and XU have had good enough teams and programs over the years that OSU hoops just doesn't play here at all. The last poll that came out OSU hoops was rated like #14 in the fan polls in Cincy. OSU football doesn't have a stronghold in the town, but there are fans. OSU hoops isn't even on radar. They have a good hoops program at OSU, sure. But that isn't the discussion. The discussion is fan interest. UC/XU hoops have huge followings in town. OSU hoops, no.

So no, UC isn't 'hemmed in' by Ohio State basketball. The fact that we were recently rated the #10 basketball program all time (in front of Ohio State) in the Sporting News is a testament to what I'm saying.

You misunderstood. I didn't say Buckeyes basketball penetrated into Cincy. Cincy, along with Xavier, controls basketball interest within the city.

But outside, it's Bucks country, and that's the sense in which you are hemmed in. You control the city, but everywhere around you, its Buck's country.

Wrong as usual, outside the city is Miamisburgh, Centervill, then Dayton. You have no clue what you are talking about. Hemmed in? Are we pinned down with no hope of escape also? Just continuous moronic statements.

(06-24-2015 11:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 10:42 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 08:49 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 07:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Cincy is very much like Louisville, a big factor in a semi-big city but basically nothing outside that city and otherwise adrift in an ocean of fans of other P5 teams.

And remember, despite UofL's amazing facilities - better than Cincy will have even after these renovations - and better success on the field, UofL only got a P5 bid when Maryland dumped the ACC. Before that, they were passed over 6 times in favor of other Big East teams.

Cincy doesn't bring a lot to the table for the Big 12. They aren't a football brand name and given Bucks dominance everywhere around them, their growth potential is essentially nil. I don't expect the Big 12 to ever proactively want them.

Cincy fans shouldn't expect a P5 invite unless a raid by another P5 forces a P5 conference to backfill, like the ACC did with UofL. Absent that, it never happens.

Kudos to Cincy for gamely making these investments. Doesn't hurt to be dressed up for the prom in case someone else loses their date and makes a call.

You Do realize a lot of P5 schools Today would Not be in a P5 Conferences had They not been grandfathered into the System 40 to 100 years ago out of convenience, availability, or Geography.

I absolutely realize that, and nothing I said in the post you responded to indicated otherwise.

Quote: Actually We were only passed over 1 time and by the Big 12 with WVU. We never applied to The B1G, Pac 12 or the SEC.

My bad - you were actually passed over FIVE times, not six.

"Application"? Everyone knew UofL was 100% available to any of the other Power conferences, all they had to do was invite you.

And yet nobody did. They invited five Big East schools - TCU, WVU, Pitt, Cuse, Rutgers, before they invited you. So you guys were far down the list in terms of attractiveness, and obviously Cincy has even less of that than you guys did.

Quote:Your Slap at Louisville and Cincinnati Markets are mostly unfounded.

Totally founded. But Cincy is in even worse shape than UofL was. UofL is hemmed in by UK fans, but only really in basketball. UK's historical lack of interest in football has given UofL space to grow your football program, and you've done that. But Cincy is hemmed in by the Buckeyes in both basketball and football.

And they don't even 'control' Cincy because that is foremost a Pro sports town. Interest in the Bearcats lags way behind Bengals and Reds. At least UofL is the Big Kahuna within the UofL city limits, Cincy isn't even that.

LOL uh no

OSU basketball is a total non starter in the city of Cincinnati. UC and XU have had good enough teams and programs over the years that OSU hoops just doesn't play here at all. The last poll that came out OSU hoops was rated like #14 in the fan polls in Cincy. OSU football doesn't have a stronghold in the town, but there are fans. OSU hoops isn't even on radar. They have a good hoops program at OSU, sure. But that isn't the discussion. The discussion is fan interest. UC/XU hoops have huge followings in town. OSU hoops, no.

So no, UC isn't 'hemmed in' by Ohio State basketball. The fact that we were recently rated the #10 basketball program all time (in front of Ohio State) in the Sporting News is a testament to what I'm saying.

You misunderstood. I didn't say Buckeyes basketball penetrated into Cincy. Cincy, along with Xavier, controls basketball interest within the city.

But outside, it's Bucks country, and that's the sense in which you are hemmed in. You control the city, but everywhere around you, its Buck's country.

Fair enough

Although I will counter that by saying when Huggs was here and we were a power program we had following over the state. So it could happen again. Everybody loves a winner...

(06-24-2015 07:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-24-2015 04:15 AM)rednblackattack Wrote:  Good for UC. They deserve to be in a P5 League. The Big 12 would be foolish not to take them.

Cincy is very much like Louisville, a big factor in a semi-big city but basically nothing outside that city and otherwise adrift in an ocean of fans of other P5 teams.

And remember, despite UofL's amazing facilities - better than Cincy will have even after these renovations - and better success on the field, UofL only got a P5 bid when Maryland dumped the ACC. Before that, they were passed over 6 times in favor of other Big East teams.

Cincy doesn't bring a lot to the table for the Big 12. They aren't a football brand name and given Bucks dominance everywhere around them, their growth potential is essentially nil. I don't expect the Big 12 to ever proactively want them.

Cincy fans shouldn't expect a P5 invite unless a raid by another P5 forces a P5 conference to backfill, like the ACC did with UofL. Absent that, it never happens.

Kudos to Cincy for gamely making these investments. Doesn't hurt to be dressed up for the prom in case someone else loses their date and makes a call.

When it comes to the conference comments you make, there's not really much I can say to argue you're wrong. I don't think some savior conference is finally going to call up UC because the interests just don't align in the way that would make it work. I think UC is deserving, but as they say 'deserve ain't got nothing to do with it.'

But for statements like the bolded, I'm always amazed, because you interject views like this all the time. You are by the far one of the most short-sighted people on the board. Admin's thinking like you are how companies/departments fall behind. Absolutely no vision whatsoever. I don't think there has ever been an institution with zero growth potential. That's essentially an oxymoron. You would have said the same thing about UC 10 years ago most likely, and UC's growth % (both as an instituion and an athletic enterprise) during that period is probably with the best in the nation. Is there a ceiling? Of course, but zero growth potential? Get outta here.