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Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-13-2015 11:28 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 10:33 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 10:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 09:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  They get all the revenue of those ACC games at home in their NBC deal. Presumably their $4.9 million is for sports other than football as the full ACC schools get the revenue for their home games. So its just like a typical ooc contract.

OK, good point. But ... having ACC teams play Notre Dame at home makes the ACC television contract more valuable, and ND apparently isn't capturing any of that value.

You are missing the bigger pictures. ND does not care one bit because such was an excellent investment to maintain their independence (much more money) and the deal provided an excellent home for their Olympic non-hockey sports. The ACC only got $2 million more per school, per year. That is the value the ACC got for having the 2 1/2 home games with ND. There is no more money coming the ACC's way.

Your first point makes my point: The P5 conglomerate allowed Notre Dame to "maintain their independence" and avoid parking their non-football sports in a G5 desert, but only at the cost of having to give away half their football schedule to the ACC.

Your second point, about how much $$$ the ACC got for having those 2.5 home games also makes my point: The ACC is getting paid $28 million extra per year for those games. That's a big chunk of money, and the ACC is getting all of it, Notre Dame, the generator of that money, is getting none. Again, bad deal for ND.

Notre Dame may have dumb football coaches, but it never has had dumb administrators, especially where money is involved. The only way the sign a bad deal is if a bad deal is the best they can get. And in this case, because of the P5 stranglehold, it was the best they could get.

I reassert my points made in post #16.

You're hunkered down now Hairy Dawg! That's telling it like it is! And to think their fan boys call Swoffy a Ninja.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2015 11:38 AM by JRsec.)
06-13-2015 11:37 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-13-2015 10:33 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 10:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 09:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 08:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 05:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  That's right. But that won't stop those who love the "ND will be forced to join a conference" fantasy.

Starting this year, Notre Dame is playing 5-6 ACC games a year, which is only 3 less than a full ACC member plays, and yet they are only getting 1/4 of the money of a full ACC member?

Either football isn't driving the ACC bus, or else Notre Dame is getting taken to the cleaners on this deal. Heck, as valuable as they are, they should be getting a full share to play 5-6 ACC games.

What this means is: Notre Dame WAS forced by the changing landscape to make an accommodation with a P5 conference, and on unfavorable terms. In order to avoid parking all their other sports in a G5 league, they had to surrender a lot of football value to the ACC.

IOW's, while the P5 conglomerate hasn't broken Notre Dame, it has bent them.

They get all the revenue of those ACC games at home in their NBC deal. Presumably their $4.9 million is for sports other than football as the full ACC schools get the revenue for their home games. So its just like a typical ooc contract.

OK, good point. But ... having ACC teams play Notre Dame at home makes the ACC television contract more valuable, and ND apparently isn't capturing any of that value.

You are missing the bigger pictures. ND does not care one bit because such was an excellent investment to maintain their independence (much more money) and the deal provided an excellent home for their Olympic non-hockey sports. The ACC only got $2 million more per school, per year. That is the value the ACC got for having the 2 1/2 home games with ND. There is no more money coming the ACC's way.

ACC got $28 million per year for 2.5 football games per year - that's $11.2 million per game, which is much higher than any conference's overall per game average and much higher than ND's per game average from NBC.
06-13-2015 11:42 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #23
Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-13-2015 08:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 05:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 05:17 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 04:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 01:41 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  So just tv/conference/playoff money (basically what full conf membership does for p5 teams) gets ND at least 28.2 million. Not bad and a clear indication that finances won't push them into a football league membership. Seriously it's around a 10mm pay CUT to join the ACC for football even if the TV football games add 25 million and they stick at 15 teams assuming these numbers are for 14-15 or at least close to what is expected.

If you took the most valuable football property out of every P5 conference and let them sell their own football TV rights, then each of them would be making a helluva lot more than they make by sharing within their conference.

True, the difference here is ND has all the scheduling, non fb league, tv deal, and identity as an Indy already established. A top brand in an existing league has a degree of uncertainty in one or more areas.

Also making 24.9mm vs 20ish for the other powers isn't as dramatic of a boon as many would guess for one of the biggest brands out there.

My point is that all the rumors people throw around that "ND will be forced to join a conference!" is not going to happen from the tv money angle.

That's right. But that won't stop those who love the "ND will be forced to join a conference" fantasy.

Starting this year, Notre Dame is playing 5-6 ACC games a year, which is only 3 less than a full ACC member plays, and yet they are only getting 1/4 of the money of a full ACC member?
in exchange for scheduling a few games they got 4.9mm for non-fb and some bowl setup. Between their own tv deal and playoff cut they are making MORE than ACC teams. Team not getting paid for road game tv rights isn't anything new. What ND did is leverage a big pay raise for nonfb with better top to bottom hoops appeal than the AAC is now.
[quote ]Either football isn't driving the ACC bus, or else Notre Dame is getting taken to the cleaners on this deal. Heck, as valuable as they are, they should be getting a full share to play 5-6 ACC games.[/quote]
They got a really good payout for scheduling a different league than the Big East teams they used to promise games with. Nobody "technically" gets paid for road games, home teams own the rights. ND is still making out like bandits financially with NBC & their playoff money for football revenue that the p5 gets from their league.
Quote:What this means is: Notre Dame WAS forced by the changing landscape to make an accommodation with a P5 conference, and on unfavorable terms. In order to avoid parking all their other sports in a G5 league, they had to surrender a lot of football value to the ACC.

IOW's, while the P5 conglomerate hasn't broken Notre Dame, it has bent them.

It's essentially the same deal as the old big east deal. What "accommodation" did they make that wasn't already happening? They had a scheduling arrangement before.
06-14-2015 12:21 PM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
most reports have the ND value to the ACC at $1.2 to $1.3 million per year per school not $2 million

the "expectations" were $3 million, but as always with things like this reality did not meet expectations
06-14-2015 12:48 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-13-2015 11:28 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 10:33 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 10:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 09:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  They get all the revenue of those ACC games at home in their NBC deal. Presumably their $4.9 million is for sports other than football as the full ACC schools get the revenue for their home games. So its just like a typical ooc contract.

OK, good point. But ... having ACC teams play Notre Dame at home makes the ACC television contract more valuable, and ND apparently isn't capturing any of that value.

You are missing the bigger pictures. ND does not care one bit because such was an excellent investment to maintain their independence (much more money) and the deal provided an excellent home for their Olympic non-hockey sports. The ACC only got $2 million more per school, per year. That is the value the ACC got for having the 2 1/2 home games with ND. There is no more money coming the ACC's way.

Your first point makes my point: The P5 conglomerate allowed Notre Dame to "maintain their independence" and avoid parking their non-football sports in a G5 desert, but only at the cost of having to give away half their football schedule to the ACC.

Your second point, about how much $$$ the ACC got for having those 2.5 home games also makes my point: The ACC is getting paid $28 million extra per year for those games. That's a big chunk of money, and the ACC is getting all of it, Notre Dame, the generator of that money, is getting none. Again, bad deal for ND.

Notre Dame may have dumb football coaches, but it never has had dumb administrators, especially where money is involved. The only way the sign a bad deal is if a bad deal is the best they can get. And in this case, because of the P5 stranglehold, it was the best they could get.

I reassert my points made in post #16.

I reassert my points made in post #18. 07-coffee3
06-14-2015 12:49 PM
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GTFletch Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
OK according to this ESPN article ...NBC will pay ND 15Million a year for ND football through 2015... Plus the 4.9 Million for ACC and ND is close to 20M plus per year for Media and Bowl payouts.... So it would seem that ND, may also find it harder to stay indy...

LINK
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-deal-2025
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2015 08:58 PM by GTFletch.)
06-14-2015 08:57 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
The question I would like to know is how much more valuable if conferences do a partnership with other conferences to put a better game package just for football sake? Like Pac 12 can partnered with the MWC with some Big Sky move ups.

Now, the low performers who don't get on tv much or at all in the PAC 12 can move over to the MWC to help rebuild their programs, but still could schedule the PAC 12 schools.
Colorado, California, Oregon State and Washington State can move over to the MWC to rebuild. Boise State, Eastern Washington, Colorado State and San Diego State can fill in to add good teams to get on tv. It might help the 4 PAC schools to be able to regain any winning momentum. Then in a few years, they can move back in.
06-15-2015 01:04 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-14-2015 12:21 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  It's essentially the same deal as the old big east deal. What "accommodation" did they make that wasn't already happening? They had a scheduling arrangement before.

The ACC deal requires that ND play 5-6 football games per year versus ACC schools, essentially half the ND schedule. With the Big East, the arrangement was far less onerous. E.g., in 2010 Notre Dame played one game against a Big East school, and in 2011 they played two. Since they always play Pitt anyway, it essentially meant no commitment in football at all.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2015 08:55 AM by quo vadis.)
06-15-2015 07:02 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
Of course football drives the bus for "conference revenue." That's because conferences control essentially all the revenue in football.

In basketball, nearly $800 million a year goes to the NCAA, and the conferences only see a tiny fraction of that; less than $100 million goes to the P5 even though they bring about 3/4 of the viewers (with the Big East, MWC, AAC, and a handful of other programs bringing most of the rest).

If the NCAA didn't steal hundreds of millions from the big basketball schools, the conference revenue would be almost evenly divided between basketball and football.
06-15-2015 07:57 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-14-2015 12:21 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(06-13-2015 08:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 05:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 05:17 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 04:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  If you took the most valuable football property out of every P5 conference and let them sell their own football TV rights, then each of them would be making a helluva lot more than they make by sharing within their conference.

True, the difference here is ND has all the scheduling, non fb league, tv deal, and identity as an Indy already established. A top brand in an existing league has a degree of uncertainty in one or more areas.

Also making 24.9mm vs 20ish for the other powers isn't as dramatic of a boon as many would guess for one of the biggest brands out there.

My point is that all the rumors people throw around that "ND will be forced to join a conference!" is not going to happen from the tv money angle.

That's right. But that won't stop those who love the "ND will be forced to join a conference" fantasy.

Starting this year, Notre Dame is playing 5-6 ACC games a year, which is only 3 less than a full ACC member plays, and yet they are only getting 1/4 of the money of a full ACC member?
in exchange for scheduling a few games they got 4.9mm for non-fb and some bowl setup. Between their own tv deal and playoff cut they are making MORE than ACC teams. Team not getting paid for road game tv rights isn't anything new. What ND did is leverage a big pay raise for nonfb with better top to bottom hoops appeal than the AAC is now.
[quote ]Either football isn't driving the ACC bus, or else Notre Dame is getting taken to the cleaners on this deal. Heck, as valuable as they are, they should be getting a full share to play 5-6 ACC games.
They got a really good payout for scheduling a different league than the Big East teams they used to promise games with. Nobody "technically" gets paid for road games, home teams own the rights. ND is still making out like bandits financially with NBC & their playoff money for football revenue that the p5 gets from their league.
Quote:What this means is: Notre Dame WAS forced by the changing landscape to make an accommodation with a P5 conference, and on unfavorable terms. In order to avoid parking all their other sports in a G5 league, they had to surrender a lot of football value to the ACC.

IOW's, while the P5 conglomerate hasn't broken Notre Dame, it has bent them.

It's essentially the same deal as the old big east deal. What "accommodation" did they make that wasn't already happening? They had a scheduling arrangement before.
[/quote]


Actually....it did not.

ND had no formal scheduling requirement with the Big East.
06-15-2015 08:28 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-14-2015 08:57 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  OK according to this ESPN article ...NBC will pay ND 15Million a year for ND football through 2015... Plus the 4.9 Million for ACC and ND is close to 20M plus per year for Media and Bowl payouts.... So it would seem that ND, may also find it harder to stay indy...

LINK
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-deal-2025

That $15 million a year is the old number for the 2010-15 NBC deal, not the new 2016-25 deal.

That is rumored to be in the $20-23 million per year range.
06-15-2015 08:30 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
Also the rules for the Big East Bowls were actually a lot more onerous on Notre Dame. Like could only go 1 time every 4 years to a specific bowl.
06-15-2015 08:32 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-14-2015 08:57 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  OK according to this ESPN article ...NBC will pay ND 15Million a year for ND football through 2015... Plus the 4.9 Million for ACC and ND is close to 20M plus per year for Media and Bowl payouts.... So it would seem that ND, may also find it harder to stay indy...

LINK
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-deal-2025

"The contract, reportedly worth $15 million annually for football, had never run for more than five years." That sentence could also be interpreted as referring to "the old contract, reportedly worth $15 million...." So I'm not sure that is definitive on what they make in the 2015-2025 contract.
06-15-2015 08:40 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-15-2015 08:28 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND had no formal scheduling requirement with the Big East.

Exactly. IIRC, Notre Dame did have some kind of informal "well, we'll try to squeeze a couple Big East teams on to our schedule" thing with the Big East. That might be how the 2009 UConn and 2011 USF games came about.

But nothing like the ACC deal.
06-15-2015 08:54 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-15-2015 08:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:28 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND had no formal scheduling requirement with the Big East.

Exactly. IIRC, Notre Dame did have some kind of informal "well, we'll try to squeeze a couple Big East teams on to our schedule" thing with the Big East. That might be how the 2009 UConn and 2011 USF games came about.

But nothing like the ACC deal.

Notre Dame informally agreed to schedule 3 BE teams a year. The ACC made sure it was all formalized.
06-15-2015 08:58 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-15-2015 08:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-14-2015 08:57 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  OK according to this ESPN article ...NBC will pay ND 15Million a year for ND football through 2015... Plus the 4.9 Million for ACC and ND is close to 20M plus per year for Media and Bowl payouts.... So it would seem that ND, may also find it harder to stay indy...

LINK
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-deal-2025

"The contract, reportedly worth $15 million annually for football, had never run for more than five years." That sentence could also be interpreted as referring to "the old contract, reportedly worth $15 million...." So I'm not sure that is definitive on what they make in the 2015-2025 contract.

It is not. That was the prior deal.

The article even says below that quote of yours that "terms of the new contract were not disclosed".

The rumors out of ND are $20-23 million. As a private school, those numbers have not been formally announced or published.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2015 11:03 AM by TerryD.)
06-15-2015 11:01 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-15-2015 08:58 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:28 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND had no formal scheduling requirement with the Big East.

Exactly. IIRC, Notre Dame did have some kind of informal "well, we'll try to squeeze a couple Big East teams on to our schedule" thing with the Big East. That might be how the 2009 UConn and 2011 USF games came about.

But nothing like the ACC deal.

Notre Dame informally agreed to schedule 3 BE teams a year. The ACC made sure it was all formalized.

Those 3 BE games rarely if ever happened.
06-15-2015 11:04 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-15-2015 08:58 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:28 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND had no formal scheduling requirement with the Big East.
Exactly. IIRC, Notre Dame did have some kind of informal "well, we'll try to squeeze a couple Big East teams on to our schedule" thing with the Big East. That might be how the 2009 UConn and 2011 USF games came about.

But nothing like the ACC deal.
Notre Dame informally agreed to schedule 3 BE teams a year. The ACC made sure it was all formalized.
That's because ND never once honored their pledge to play THREE Big East teams each year.
06-15-2015 12:50 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-15-2015 12:50 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:58 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:28 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND had no formal scheduling requirement with the Big East.
Exactly. IIRC, Notre Dame did have some kind of informal "well, we'll try to squeeze a couple Big East teams on to our schedule" thing with the Big East. That might be how the 2009 UConn and 2011 USF games came about.

But nothing like the ACC deal.
Notre Dame informally agreed to schedule 3 BE teams a year. The ACC made sure it was all formalized.
That's because ND never once honored their pledge to play THREE Big East teams each year.

ND verbally said three BE teams a year. BE schools interpreted that as every school, home/home. ND said "no, that is YOUR interpretation, not ours".

ND tried to schedule home/pro stadium deals with Rutgers and UConn. Both said no, which was their right.

ND played Pitt every year plus occasionally a few others, but it was all informal.
06-15-2015 01:04 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Need proof that football drives conference revenue?
(06-15-2015 12:50 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:58 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-15-2015 08:28 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND had no formal scheduling requirement with the Big East.
Exactly. IIRC, Notre Dame did have some kind of informal "well, we'll try to squeeze a couple Big East teams on to our schedule" thing with the Big East. That might be how the 2009 UConn and 2011 USF games came about.

But nothing like the ACC deal.
Notre Dame informally agreed to schedule 3 BE teams a year. The ACC made sure it was all formalized.
That's because ND never once honored their pledge to play THREE Big East teams each year.

This is the point that I was going to post. The BE took ND for its word. Its word is about as valuable as a kleenex, which is why the ACC locked ND down into a deal that they have no choice but to honor.
06-15-2015 01:08 PM
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