(06-13-2015 07:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 06:15 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 04:33 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 11:53 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 11:07 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  This is a really big deal and a huge stain on UNC. This cannot be diminished by academic types or those who rate Universities.

The biggest harm is UNC is very vulnerable right now. They are standing on the edge of the abyss, and if they were not fully forthright this time with the SACS, or they cross these lines during the next year, UNC could get the academic death penalty- one year lost accreditation most likely.

Here is the REAL DANGER; if they were not forthright in this last investigation, or they do something really stupid during the next year, someone else may push them into the abyss. Think Texas fans and SMU after the first time SMU was put on probation before the death penalty, except this would be academics accreditation on the line, not NCCA athletics. The similarities between the two examples would be the opportunity, the motive of the possible pusher, and who such possible pusher likely would be, a sports fan.

If there is another shoe that could drop, the fall would be deep into the abyss.

This is really much to do about nothing. There is simply no way anyone can convince me that SACS would dare pull UNC's accreditation from them. That is unless SACS actually does so and even then, I would be in disbelief that any unfavorable actions were taken towards UNC.

I hate to agree with Noodles, but in this case I do. The University of North Carolina's accreditation is NOT in any form of jeopardy. There is NOTHING that will cause SACS to revoke it, and if they did there would be hell for SACS to pay politically. UNC is too big and too powerful. They are simply unaccountable and to think otherwise is foolish.

No...they are in jeopardy. SACS is the accreditation agency for all the schools in the SE US. This is not just North Carolina politics. Schools from Texas to North Carolina are accredited by this agency. If SACS doesn't enforce the standards, then they all are under scrutiny regarding being an accredited college. You think the schools on the list that are on probation aren't paying attention to this? They would have a strong case against SACS for not enforcing the academic accreditation.
You misunderstand the situation here, there is no political price to pay of a accreditation agency that covers all colleges in the 11 states that SACS covers.

Smaller schools can get revoked.

The rules do not...have NEVER...applied to major players. There is simply too much money and power invested to think that UNC, or Texas, or any other major university will ever be in serious jeopardy. It just will not ever happen.

SACS is not immune from politics. They accredit school districts too and they have been pretty controversial in Georgia.

UNC doesn't want to stay on probation, but accreditation revoked? Not going to happen.

Many of the schools on probation got put there for financial instability.

I wonder if any students are choosing to attend NCSU or ECU instead of UNC because of these academic embarrassments. My guess is probably not very many. Maybe a few.

(06-13-2015 07:42 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I wonder if any students are choosing to attend NCSU or ECU instead of UNC because of these academic embarrassments. My guess is probably not very many. Maybe a few.

I'd guess none. How many 18 year olds are considering schools based on the views of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges?

UNC was on SACS probation just a couple of years ago.

(06-13-2015 08:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UNC was on SACS probation just a couple of years ago.

I do not believe this is correct. UNC was placed on Warning status, which is the first stage towards Discretization. Probation is the second stage.

It is important to note for UNC to get off Probation they must comply with whatever changes or fixes SACS tells them is necessary. Flying straight is not enough.

(06-13-2015 11:18 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 08:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UNC was on SACS probation just a couple of years ago.

I do not believe this is correct. UNC was placed on Warning status, which is the first stage towards Discretization. Probation is the second stage.

It is important to note for UNC to get off Probation they must comply with whatever changes or fixes SACS tells them is necessary. Flying straight is not enough.

Georgetown, KY is on the warning list, and NCAA D2 would not touched them. The schools that I listed for the NCAA to have no games to be counted? Some of them got their accreditations revoked by SACS and TRACS. They need to get help to clean up their act. Some of them are not even accredited.

(06-13-2015 07:42 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I wonder if any students are choosing to attend NCSU or ECU instead of UNC because of these academic embarrassments. My guess is probably not very many. Maybe a few.

I doubt many if any at all. I mean, this really only affects high school students who dreamed of completing their African American Studies degree at UNC. If the fraud had taken place in one of the larger, more popular schools at UNC this could be a disaster for them. But in reality it's quite contained.

(06-14-2015 07:28 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 07:42 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I wonder if any students are choosing to attend NCSU or ECU instead of UNC because of these academic embarrassments. My guess is probably not very many. Maybe a few.

I doubt many if any at all. I mean, this really only affects high school students who dreamed of completing their African American Studies degree at UNC. If the fraud had taken place in one of the larger, more popular schools at UNC this could be a disaster for them. But in reality it's quite contained.

SACS probation is a university-wide thing, not confined to the department that committed the violations.

SACS probation itself means nothing and is unlikely to affect enrollment. Losing SACS accreditation would mean a whole lot, as more than a billion dollars in federal aid would disappear and UNC students would find that their credits wouldn't transfer to other institutions.

So UNC will do what it has to to avoid loss of accreditation.

(06-13-2015 11:18 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 08:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UNC was on SACS probation just a couple of years ago.

I do not believe this is correct. UNC was placed on Warning status, which is the first stage towards Discretization. Probation is the second stage.

It is important to note for UNC to get off Probation they must comply with whatever changes or fixes SACS tells them is necessary. Flying straight is not enough.

And one more slip up would be the final straw. Make another violation, or fail to comply with all the indicated changes, and UNC is a museum for showing people how not to run a university.

(06-14-2015 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 11:18 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 08:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UNC was on SACS probation just a couple of years ago.

I do not believe this is correct. UNC was placed on Warning status, which is the first stage towards Discretization. Probation is the second stage.

It is important to note for UNC to get off Probation they must comply with whatever changes or fixes SACS tells them is necessary. Flying straight is not enough.

And one more slip up would be the final straw. Make another violation, or fail to comply with all the indicated changes, and UNC is a museum for showing people how not to run a university.

We all know this is false. SACS would never take away the Accreditation of a Major university. Especially not one with such a long standing power base. Now had South Florida, UCF, ECU or any other non-power conference school done this, they'd already be working to regain their accreditation. For anyone to believe that SACS will do anything more harmful then a scathing letter of rebuff and double even triple secret probation, you're fantasizing.

(06-14-2015 11:29 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 11:18 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 08:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UNC was on SACS probation just a couple of years ago.

I do not believe this is correct. UNC was placed on Warning status, which is the first stage towards Discretization. Probation is the second stage.

It is important to note for UNC to get off Probation they must comply with whatever changes or fixes SACS tells them is necessary. Flying straight is not enough.

And one more slip up would be the final straw. Make another violation, or fail to comply with all the indicated changes, and UNC is a museum for showing people how not to run a university.

We all know this is false. SACS would never take away the Accreditation of a Major university. Especially not one with such a long standing power base. Now had South Florida, UCF, ECU or any other non-power conference school done this, they'd already be working to regain their accreditation. For anyone to believe that SACS will do anything more harmful then a scathing letter of rebuff and double even triple secret probation, you're fantasizing.

If UNC officials think the same way you do, they'll end up greatly mistaken. Arrogance can only take you so far. Eventually the neck is stuck out so far somebody cuts the head off.

UNC needs to address this. If they don't, they're history.

(06-14-2015 12:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:29 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 11:18 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 08:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UNC was on SACS probation just a couple of years ago.

I do not believe this is correct. UNC was placed on Warning status, which is the first stage towards Discretization. Probation is the second stage.

It is important to note for UNC to get off Probation they must comply with whatever changes or fixes SACS tells them is necessary. Flying straight is not enough.

And one more slip up would be the final straw. Make another violation, or fail to comply with all the indicated changes, and UNC is a museum for showing people how not to run a university.

We all know this is false. SACS would never take away the Accreditation of a Major university. Especially not one with such a long standing power base. Now had South Florida, UCF, ECU or any other non-power conference school done this, they'd already be working to regain their accreditation. For anyone to believe that SACS will do anything more harmful then a scathing letter of rebuff and double even triple secret probation, you're fantasizing.

If UNC officials think the same way you do, they'll end up greatly mistaken. Arrogance can only take you so far. Eventually the neck is stuck out so far somebody cuts the head off.

UNC needs to address this. If they don't, they're history.

Would you like to place a wager on this? I'll bet that UNC will publicly agree with SACS and miraculously adhere to and achieve all of SACS guidelines and expectations. Once the year is over, UNC will be given a clean bill of health.

(06-14-2015 12:44 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  Would you like to place a wager on this? I'll bet that UNC will publicly agree with SACS and miraculously adhere to and achieve all of SACS guidelines and expectations. Once the year is over, UNC will be given a clean bill of health.

UNC will meet the SACS expectations, precisely because they know the consequences of failing to do so would be devastating. Doing what SACS requires will instantly become the primary goal of the school's administration because losing accreditation is potentially a mortal blow for any school, even a UNC. So any school, even a UNC, will do what they have to do to get off of probation.

The only schools that ever fail to do so are schools that are on probation because of financial exigency. Sometimes, a school just doesn't have the money and can't raise it.

But if the cause of the probation isn't a money shortage - and in UNC's case it's not - then the school will always fix the problem, because it is a matter of life and death.

(06-14-2015 12:44 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:29 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 11:18 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  I do not believe this is correct. UNC was placed on Warning status, which is the first stage towards Discretization. Probation is the second stage.

It is important to note for UNC to get off Probation they must comply with whatever changes or fixes SACS tells them is necessary. Flying straight is not enough.

And one more slip up would be the final straw. Make another violation, or fail to comply with all the indicated changes, and UNC is a museum for showing people how not to run a university.

We all know this is false. SACS would never take away the Accreditation of a Major university. Especially not one with such a long standing power base. Now had South Florida, UCF, ECU or any other non-power conference school done this, they'd already be working to regain their accreditation. For anyone to believe that SACS will do anything more harmful then a scathing letter of rebuff and double even triple secret probation, you're fantasizing.

If UNC officials think the same way you do, they'll end up greatly mistaken. Arrogance can only take you so far. Eventually the neck is stuck out so far somebody cuts the head off.

UNC needs to address this. If they don't, they're history.

Would you like to place a wager on this? I'll bet that UNC will publicly agree with SACS and miraculously adhere to and achieve all of SACS guidelines and expectations. Once the year is over, UNC will be given a clean bill of health.

I don't think UNC officials are as naive as you are. So it's a sucker bet.

But if they are that naive, don't expect SACS to ignore it, like you seem to believe. This is such a high profile case that any violations on UNC's part will force them to take action. They'll have to. UNC doesn't have that kind of political power nationally. The State of North Carolina is outnumbered 49-1.

(06-14-2015 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:44 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:29 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  And one more slip up would be the final straw. Make another violation, or fail to comply with all the indicated changes, and UNC is a museum for showing people how not to run a university.

We all know this is false. SACS would never take away the Accreditation of a Major university. Especially not one with such a long standing power base. Now had South Florida, UCF, ECU or any other non-power conference school done this, they'd already be working to regain their accreditation. For anyone to believe that SACS will do anything more harmful then a scathing letter of rebuff and double even triple secret probation, you're fantasizing.

If UNC officials think the same way you do, they'll end up greatly mistaken. Arrogance can only take you so far. Eventually the neck is stuck out so far somebody cuts the head off.

UNC needs to address this. If they don't, they're history.

Would you like to place a wager on this? I'll bet that UNC will publicly agree with SACS and miraculously adhere to and achieve all of SACS guidelines and expectations. Once the year is over, UNC will be given a clean bill of health.

I don't think UNC officials are as naive as you are. So it's a sucker bet.

But if they are that naive, don't expect SACS to ignore it, like you seem to believe. This is such a high profile case that any violations on UNC's part will force them to take action. They'll have to. UNC doesn't have that kind of political power nationally. The State of North Carolina is outnumbered 49-1.

I'm naïve??? You're the one who's naïve. I'm just stating what will happen. You can believe in which ever way you want as to how the out come was achieved. I'm just telling you it will be thus. I have no blinders on.

(06-14-2015 01:00 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:44 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:29 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  We all know this is false. SACS would never take away the Accreditation of a Major university. Especially not one with such a long standing power base. Now had South Florida, UCF, ECU or any other non-power conference school done this, they'd already be working to regain their accreditation. For anyone to believe that SACS will do anything more harmful then a scathing letter of rebuff and double even triple secret probation, you're fantasizing.

If UNC officials think the same way you do, they'll end up greatly mistaken. Arrogance can only take you so far. Eventually the neck is stuck out so far somebody cuts the head off.

UNC needs to address this. If they don't, they're history.

Would you like to place a wager on this? I'll bet that UNC will publicly agree with SACS and miraculously adhere to and achieve all of SACS guidelines and expectations. Once the year is over, UNC will be given a clean bill of health.

I don't think UNC officials are as naive as you are. So it's a sucker bet.

But if they are that naive, don't expect SACS to ignore it, like you seem to believe. This is such a high profile case that any violations on UNC's part will force them to take action. They'll have to. UNC doesn't have that kind of political power nationally. The State of North Carolina is outnumbered 49-1.

I'm naïve??? You're the one who's naïve. I'm just stating what will happen. You can believe in which ever way you want as to how the out come was achieved. I'm just telling you it will be thus. I have no blinders on.

You are being naive if you think that UNC can ignore this, violate it at will, and get off scot free. That's what I'm saying and you're ignoring.

(06-14-2015 01:06 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 01:00 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:44 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  If UNC officials think the same way you do, they'll end up greatly mistaken. Arrogance can only take you so far. Eventually the neck is stuck out so far somebody cuts the head off.

UNC needs to address this. If they don't, they're history.

Would you like to place a wager on this? I'll bet that UNC will publicly agree with SACS and miraculously adhere to and achieve all of SACS guidelines and expectations. Once the year is over, UNC will be given a clean bill of health.

I don't think UNC officials are as naive as you are. So it's a sucker bet.

But if they are that naive, don't expect SACS to ignore it, like you seem to believe. This is such a high profile case that any violations on UNC's part will force them to take action. They'll have to. UNC doesn't have that kind of political power nationally. The State of North Carolina is outnumbered 49-1.

I'm naïve??? You're the one who's naïve. I'm just stating what will happen. You can believe in which ever way you want as to how the out come was achieved. I'm just telling you it will be thus. I have no blinders on.

You are being naive if you think that UNC can ignore this, violate it at will, and get off scot free. That's what I'm saying and you're ignoring.

No Bit, you're ignoring the facts that I've told you. The findings and corrective measures of SACS are sealed. They are not open to public scrutiny. Thus as with many other things, leaves a great deal of grey area. Just because something is inferred doesn't mean it actually happened. Just because UNC should in the publics eyes be scared, mean that they have anything to be scared of. No Sir, I live in the real world. I am not blinded by myths or illusions of right and wrong. This is a world of reality. The only reality you know is coming is that; in one years time, UNC will have a clean bill of health.

That is all I am saying. You may believe what you will. I am not saying that UNC should be afraid of SACS or their findings. I'm saying that all will be well at UNC and you shall see.

(06-14-2015 11:29 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 11:18 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 08:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UNC was on SACS probation just a couple of years ago.

I do not believe this is correct. UNC was placed on Warning status, which is the first stage towards Discretization. Probation is the second stage.

It is important to note for UNC to get off Probation they must comply with whatever changes or fixes SACS tells them is necessary. Flying straight is not enough.

And one more slip up would be the final straw. Make another violation, or fail to comply with all the indicated changes, and UNC is a museum for showing people how not to run a university.

We all know this is false. SACS would never take away the Accreditation of a Major university. Especially not one with such a long standing power base. Now had South Florida, UCF, ECU or any other non-power conference school done this, they'd already be working to regain their accreditation. For anyone to believe that SACS will do anything more harmful then a scathing letter of rebuff and double even triple secret probation, you're fantasizing.

Run, some of the HBCU schools used to be major schools like Grambling. South Carolina State could lose theirs. This is why the state's government thinking of closing the school down for a year to fix the financial woes. That would mean all sports disbanded.

(06-14-2015 01:31 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Run, some of the HBCU schools used to be major schools like Grambling. South Carolina State could lose theirs. This is why the state's government thinking of closing the school down for a year to fix the financial woes. That would mean all sports disbanded.

There's also some political motivation to insufficiently fund HBCUs, or simply close them. Many states would love to see them close, so they could start to sweep that part of their history under the rug by totally ignoring it.

(06-14-2015 02:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 01:31 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Run, some of the HBCU schools used to be major schools like Grambling. South Carolina State could lose theirs. This is why the state's government thinking of closing the school down for a year to fix the financial woes. That would mean all sports disbanded.

There's also some political motivation to insufficiently fund HBCUs, or simply close them. Many states would love to see them close, so they could start to sweep that part of their history under the rug by totally ignoring it.

UAPB. Norfolk State and Jackson State are having a lot of white kids in them now. Saw some of them playing for the football teams.