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OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #41
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
(06-18-2015 08:47 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  A&M chancellor Sharp on alcohol at events: "Our athletic program has not reached the point where we require the numbing effects of alcohol."

Right. They're already a bunch of numbskulls.
06-18-2015 08:57 PM
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ArmChairOwl Offline
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Post: #42
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
(06-18-2015 08:47 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  A&M chancellor Sharp on alcohol at events: "Our athletic program has not reached the point where we require the numbing effects of alcohol."

Yeah. Tell that to Johnny Football.
06-18-2015 09:26 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
(06-10-2015 01:40 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I offered up that example because someone brought up Charlotte's Web and James and the Giant Peach. You're a younger guy, and many of the professors and class structures are probably similar now to what they were when you were between the hedges. I could rattle off 15-20 classes at Rice that have either minimal work and/or easy work. Perhaps I'm just smarter than all the posters on this forum (doubtful, as my Rice GPA is middling at best), or maybe I'm just more honest about the rigor of classes. In a big university like UT, there are going to be more easy classes than at small university like Rice. Just the nature of the beast. UT's best programs are just as good if not better than the same programs at Rice.


Well, first of all, UT is a top 50 school, so that is undoubtedly true (that they are just as good if not better)... but if you think about this in the context of 'remaining eligible', the larger number of low-level courses (because of the size of most large Universities) combined with a few teachers 'on the team' and then some strategic 'cheating' or summer courses at an easier university that transfer to the larger state university (and because they're a large state university, the other schools tailor their programs so that they will transfer) there can easily be more of a focus on 'remaining eligible' as opposed to graduating (for at least a few players). If you are a legitimate 1st rounder, then it probably doesn't matter that much if you get your degree at 18 or 32. If you aren't, then it matters.

If 30% of the courses at Rice are 'easy', there is no reason to think that at least 30% of them at UT or UH aren't as well. That might be 30 classes at Rice, but it's 200 classes at UT. If 10% of the teachers are 'on the team' at Rice, there is no reason to think that at least 10% are at other places as well.... which might be 30 at Rice, and 200 at UT or UH.

Yet we have the same number of players on those teams.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2015 01:01 PM by Hambone10.)
06-19-2015 12:58 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #44
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
(06-19-2015 12:58 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Well, first of all, UT is a top 50 school

I want to point something out:

Calling UT a top-50 school is very misleading, and calling Rice a top-20 school is somewhat misleading as well. These distinctions are based on the US News rankings primarily, and these rankings are meant to approximate undergraduate education quality. The problem is that US News does not integrate non-PhD or liberal arts schools into the same list. When you add those groups in, Rice drops a little bit, but UT drops a whole lot more.

UT is not one of the 50 best undergraduate schools in this country, not even close. IMO, naturally.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2015 02:21 PM by Wiessman.)
06-19-2015 02:00 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #45
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
Also:

I have attended a variety of institutions and assisted at others. Compared to schools like Rice and Stanford, most of the ESUs and lesser private schools are like kindergarten in the classroom in terms of difficulty.

I once had a history professor at Rice tell me that where she came from (a large ESU with a solid reputation), the best undergraduate paper she ever read would be worth no more than a C at Rice. FWIW.

No joke, there is a massive, massive gap between the top (mainly private) schools and everyone else in terms of undergraduate student quality. Are there a few easy classes at Rice? Probably. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the raw ability of our regular undergraduate admits is off the charts compared to the vast majority of universities. And the gap is going to continue to grow, because the competition to get into the top schools is fiercer than ever.

I'm not going to toot my own horn here, but let's just say that I am more than qualified to comment on this. I'll leave it at that.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2015 02:20 PM by Wiessman.)
06-19-2015 02:15 PM
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ChicagoOwl (BS '07) Offline
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Post: #46
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
(06-19-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  
(06-19-2015 12:58 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Well, first of all, UT is a top 50 school

I want to point something out:

Calling UT a top-50 school is very misleading, just as calling Rice a top-20 school is somewhat misleading as well. These distinctions are based on the US News rankings primarily, and these rankings are meant to approximate undergraduate education quality. The problem is that US News does not integrate non-PhD or liberal arts schools into the same list. When you add those groups in, Rice drops a little bit, but UT drops a whole lot more.

UT is not one of the 50 best undergraduate schools in this country, not even close.

The only ranking that's actually valid is this one:
http://www.leidenranking.com/ranking

02-13-banana02-13-banana02-13-banana
06-19-2015 02:16 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
(06-19-2015 02:00 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  
(06-19-2015 12:58 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Well, first of all, UT is a top 50 school

I want to point something out:

Calling UT a top-50 school is very misleading, just as calling Rice a top-20 school is somewhat misleading as well. These distinctions are based on the US News rankings primarily, and these rankings are meant to approximate undergraduate education quality. The problem is that US News does not integrate non-PhD or liberal arts schools into the same list. When you add those groups in, Rice drops a little bit, but UT drops a whole lot more.

UT is not one of the 50 best undergraduate schools in this country, not even close.

Regardless of what UT's rank is, I think my point and what Hambone agreed with, is that UT is not considered a "slacker" or "easy" school. Generally, UT graduates are considered well-educated and are respected in the work force, top 50 or not. Is UT on the same level as Harvard? No. But it is definitely a step up Coog High and similar institutions.
06-19-2015 02:20 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
(06-19-2015 02:20 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Regardless of what UT's rank is, I think my point and what Hambone agreed with, is that UT is not considered a "slacker" or "easy" school. Generally, UT graduates are considered well-educated and are respected in the work force, top 50 or not. Is UT on the same level as Harvard? No. But it is definitely a step up Coog High and similar institutions.

I agree with that.

My broader point was that regardless of how good a large school is, their sheer size coupled with all schools having approximately the same number of athletes creates far more opportunities to 'hide' an underperformer. CAN you hide at Rice? Yes... but not for long. You can hide at a good, but much larger school for longer... and at a 'not so good' but much larger school for likely even longer.
06-19-2015 05:12 PM
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ruowls Offline
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Post: #49
RE: OT-UT Athletics Colliding With Academics
Just to echo what Hambone said.

I knew of a former HS teammate who went on to play college football at a large state school. He greyshirted and then redshirted. He then played for 4 years as a starter. He attended 11 semesters and 5 summers and finished needing to complete another year for his undergraduate degree.
06-19-2015 05:42 PM
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