(06-11-2015 07:38 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 07:27 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 06:38 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 06:30 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  With no warning and no debate allowed, the House voted Thursday morning to override Gov. Pat McCrory's veto of Senate Bill 2, allowing magistrates and county register of deeds employees to opt out of performing marriages for religious reasons.
Read more at http://www.wral.com/ability-to-opt-out-o...x08z4vx.99

Hopefully this will for the discussion to make NC the model for the rest of the US. NC exits the marriage business and replaces it will a simple legal document known as a civil union, no ceremony required. All marriage before the law change will be recognized, but since NC would no longer recognize marriages after the new law it can't be forced to recognize same sex marriages from other states. This is the solution that should have been put in place to start with. Same sex couples get legal recognition, no church can ever be forced to perform a same sex marriage.

When has a church been forced to perform any marriage?

That's a future I hope never happens, but some of the same sex marriage supporters that post on want churches that refuse to perform same sex marriages to lose their tax exempt status. That is essentially forcing churches to perform same sex marriages.

A minister doesn't have to marry anyone that they don't want to. I don't think there is much of a chance that that will change.

(06-05-2015 06:51 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-05-2015 06:45 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-05-2015 06:26 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 09:47 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But when we walked into that government office together, we were told that the magistrate on duty wouldn’t give us a marriage license. I was flabbergasted. We had planned everything, we had all our paperwork and we were legally eligible to get married.

So why wouldn’t he marry us? The reason, it turned out, was because Thomas is African-American, and I am white. The magistrate told us that marrying an interracial couple went against his religious beliefs. Our happy day quickly turned into a
nightmare.

This year, when I learned that legislators in Raleigh were pushing a law that would allow magistrates to refuse to marry couples on religious grounds, I felt the pain of that day all over again. Senate Bill 2 would give magistrates the ability to discriminate against couples exactly the same way they discriminated against Thomas and me almost 40 years ago. Gov. Pat McCrory vetoed the bill after it was passed by the legislature, but the Senate has already overridden his veto, and the House could do the same.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-e...rylink=cpy

NC PRIDE, I am so proud of my state for doing the right thing.

sarcasm?

Nope, I'd like to see NC become a model where the final solution is state recognized Domestic Partnership aka civil unions and the end to state issued marriage license. The domestic partnership would be a simple state issued license with no ceremony. Marriage ceremonies would be up to individuals and their religious institution. This would be the solution includes everyone, but keeps the religious rite of marriage separate from the state objective of house-holding. To me this is a very libertarian approach to this issue.

I fully support getting the government out of "marrying" people also. I support the idea of civil unions for everyone. I reject however that this law will lead to that end.

(06-11-2015 07:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I ran into one of the magistrates in my County this week. I expressed my sentiment that I would be very disappointed with him if he refused to do his job. He said he has had conversations with dozens of magistrates all over NC about this issue and has not heard one say they would refuse to marry anyone. There may be one or two..but..they are the vast minority. He said that he found marrying gays distasteful...but...it is his job. I have a feeling this is going to be pretty much a non issue. Most Counties have multiple magistrates that can cover each other. The chance that someone will not get married because of this law is very slim. I'm sorry the Legislature did not see it as our Governor did. This should never have been an issue IMO.

The solution is simple end the state requirement for any ceremony. Let's face it, a magistrate's office isn't exactly the place to build fond memories of how a relationship began. Sign the paperwork at a county office and if you want a ceremony go some place that's a little more "spiritual" and a whole lot less bureaucratic. This whole debate opened my eyes to WHY THE HELL is government in the marriage business. Marriage and government recognition of a legal status are two really different matters.

(06-11-2015 08:02 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 07:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I ran into one of the magistrates in my County this week. I expressed my sentiment that I would be very disappointed with him if he refused to do his job. He said he has had conversations with dozens of magistrates all over NC about this issue and has not heard one say they would refuse to marry anyone. There may be one or two..but..they are the vast minority. He said that he found marrying gays distasteful...but...it is his job. I have a feeling this is going to be pretty much a non issue. Most Counties have multiple magistrates that can cover each other. The chance that someone will not get married because of this law is very slim. I'm sorry the Legislature did not see it as our Governor did. This should never have been an issue IMO.

The solution is simple end the state requirement for any ceremony. Let's face it, a magistrate's office isn't exactly the place to build fond memories of how a relationship began. Sign the paperwork at a county office and if you want a ceremony go some place that's a little more "spiritual" and a whole lot less bureaucratic. This whole debate opened my eyes to WHY THE HELL is government in the marriage business. Marriage and government recognition of a legal status are two really different matters.

You will get no argument from me on that subject.

Over half the County Register of Deeds offices have a staff four or fewer. Several have only one staff member besides the elected RofD. This could be a mess. Going forward I expect a job interview question to deal with whether they would have any problem issuing marriage licenses or conducting ceremonies for same sex, racially diverse, divorcees or people of different religions couples. Would that be legal?

This will end up causing lawsuits that NC will lose. The only question is which liberal group will be receiving the check for a couple hundred grand

(06-13-2015 12:26 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This will end up causing lawsuits that NC will lose. The only question is which liberal group will be receiving the check for a couple hundred grand

Since the GOP takeover of my state's government they have repeatedly passed laws that have been challenged in court and found to be unconstitutional. The end of their reign is not in sight.

(06-13-2015 12:26 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This will end up causing lawsuits that NC will lose. The only question is which liberal group will be receiving the check for a couple hundred grand

Not yet, the Supreme Court just heard obergefell v. hodges.

(06-13-2015 08:08 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 12:26 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This will end up causing lawsuits that NC will lose. The only question is which liberal group will be receiving the check for a couple hundred grand

Since the GOP takeover of my state's government they have repeatedly passed laws that have been challenged in court and found to be unconstitutional. The end of their reign is not in sight.

The NC GOP does not act like any other state GOP. They're tax code did little to reduce taxes just changed how taxable income is determined and the rates applied. For me the net impact to my tax liability is $0. Now they want to raise the gasoline tax to pay for highway improvements. The current NC tax on gasoline is 37.5 cents based on $2.65 including tax that's over 16% NC tax. The solution isn't raise gasoline taxes it's to STOP SPENDING that revenue on non-highway projects.

(06-04-2015 09:53 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  I'm sorry, but religious beliefs should not come in to play when you are a public servant. Carry out the law and nothing more.

Bingo.

Do your damn job. If you can't do your job, get another job.

(06-14-2015 12:41 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 09:53 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  I'm sorry, but religious beliefs should not come in to play when you are a public servant. Carry out the law and nothing more.

Bingo.

Do your damn job. If you can't do your job, get another job.

Most tellingly, you don't hear these magistrates complaining about approving literally any heterosexual marriage. They aren't questioning those with previous divorces, or making sure these couples did not have sex prior to marriage, they'll just rubber stamp their entrance into this respected and religious union because of their heterosexuality and due to absolutely nothing else alone. Yet, you show up with a couple that has matching parts and out comes their moral convictions? Come on, be a little less transparent.

Have any other states passed similar laws?

(06-14-2015 04:58 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Have any other states passed similar laws?

Sounds like you really have a bunch of nuts running the GOP in North Carolina. Which is really sad because it's a key state that ought to be red, but you can't keep doing stupid stuff and expect your support to maintain or grow.

(06-14-2015 04:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:41 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 09:53 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  I'm sorry, but religious beliefs should not come in to play when you are a public servant. Carry out the law and nothing more.

Bingo.

Do your damn job. If you can't do your job, get another job.

Most tellingly, you don't hear these magistrates complaining about approving literally any heterosexual marriage. They aren't questioning those with previous divorces, or making sure these couples did not have sex prior to marriage, they'll just rubber stamp their entrance into this respected and religious union because of their heterosexuality and due to absolutely nothing else alone. Yet, you show up with a couple that has matching parts and out comes their moral convictions? Come on, be a little less transparent.

Um, from a Christian perspective heterosexual marriage takes people out of a sinful state if they are engaging in premarital sex and for those who haven't has sex before marriage, prevents them from entering into a sinful relationship. Same sex marriage is a sinful relationship.

(06-14-2015 05:25 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 04:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:41 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 09:53 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  I'm sorry, but religious beliefs should not come in to play when you are a public servant. Carry out the law and nothing more.

Bingo.

Do your damn job. If you can't do your job, get another job.

Most tellingly, you don't hear these magistrates complaining about approving literally any heterosexual marriage. They aren't questioning those with previous divorces, or making sure these couples did not have sex prior to marriage, they'll just rubber stamp their entrance into this respected and religious union because of their heterosexuality and due to absolutely nothing else alone. Yet, you show up with a couple that has matching parts and out comes their moral convictions? Come on, be a little less transparent.

Um, from a Christian perspective heterosexual marriage takes people out of a sinful state if they are engaging in premarital sex and for those who haven't has sex before marriage, prevents them from entering into a sinful relationship. Same sex marriage is a sinful relationship.

So literally any heterosexual marriage is moral from a christian perspective? I think you're just being intentionally obtuse as to my point because you know it's a valid one.

(06-14-2015 05:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 04:58 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Have any other states passed similar laws?

Sounds like you really have a bunch of nuts running the GOP in North Carolina. Which is really sad because it's a key state that ought to be red, but you can't keep doing stupid stuff and expect your support to maintain or grow.

This.

(06-14-2015 05:25 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 04:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:41 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 09:53 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  I'm sorry, but religious beliefs should not come in to play when you are a public servant. Carry out the law and nothing more.

Bingo.

Do your damn job. If you can't do your job, get another job.

Most tellingly, you don't hear these magistrates complaining about approving literally any heterosexual marriage. They aren't questioning those with previous divorces, or making sure these couples did not have sex prior to marriage, they'll just rubber stamp their entrance into this respected and religious union because of their heterosexuality and due to absolutely nothing else alone. Yet, you show up with a couple that has matching parts and out comes their moral convictions? Come on, be a little less transparent.

Um, from a Christian perspective heterosexual marriage takes people out of a sinful state if they are engaging in premarital sex and for those who haven't has sex before marriage, prevents them from entering into a sinful relationship. Same sex marriage is a sinful relationship.

Will all due respect, this is immaterial. If a particular marriage is legal in a state, the magistrate doesn't have a choice but to carry it out.

If they can't do that, then they need to find another line of work.

(06-14-2015 06:57 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 05:25 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 04:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 12:41 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 09:53 AM)TheEagleWay Wrote:  I'm sorry, but religious beliefs should not come in to play when you are a public servant. Carry out the law and nothing more.

Bingo.

Do your damn job. If you can't do your job, get another job.

Most tellingly, you don't hear these magistrates complaining about approving literally any heterosexual marriage. They aren't questioning those with previous divorces, or making sure these couples did not have sex prior to marriage, they'll just rubber stamp their entrance into this respected and religious union because of their heterosexuality and due to absolutely nothing else alone. Yet, you show up with a couple that has matching parts and out comes their moral convictions? Come on, be a little less transparent.

Um, from a Christian perspective heterosexual marriage takes people out of a sinful state if they are engaging in premarital sex and for those who haven't has sex before marriage, prevents them from entering into a sinful relationship. Same sex marriage is a sinful relationship.

Will all due respect, this is immaterial. If a particular marriage is legal in a state, the magistrate doesn't have a choice but to carry it out.

If they can't do that, then they need to find another line of work.

Sounds like a follower of R'Hllor becoming a firefighter, and complaining about putting out fires.

(06-04-2015 08:23 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  If the veto was overridden and becomes law a magistrate can refuse to marry a same sex couple. He or she, if they declare their opposition, can't marry anyone gay or straight, for a six month period. It might not be a big deal in an urban county, but in the many rural counties is can be a very big deal. If you only have a half dozen magistrates and three of them refuse to perform their marriage duties you would be left with only three for the whole county. A magistrate has to be on duty 24 hour a day, 7 days a week. It is hard to imagine that there wouldn't be long gaps in coverage for conducting marriages in that situation.

Maybe they can just drive to be next county over.

(06-11-2015 06:30 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  With no warning and no debate allowed, the House voted Thursday morning to override Gov. Pat McCrory's veto of Senate Bill 2, allowing magistrates and county register of deeds employees to opt out of performing marriages for religious reasons.
Read more at http://www.wral.com/ability-to-opt-out-o...x08z4vx.99

Good. Maybe this will drive some of the gays away.