(06-02-2015 09:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 07:28 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 03:45 PM)Dasville Wrote:  The bottom line to realignment is money. The Sugar Bowl between the SEC and Big 12 earns each Conference $40 million each from ESPN. No way that game goes away and no way is the ACC a replacement in that game. It would cost the SEC MILLIONS over the life of the contract if the Big 12 were to fold. The P5 is here to stay. Most likely in its current form.

I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n.

So....when the big 12 goes, what happens? The ACC fills in. These Bowl match ups don't matter as much as they used to. They are an after thought to the Playoff games. The SEC/big 12 match up only happens in off years when the Sugar Bowl isn't part of the playoff.

The Sugar Bowl thing really isn't that big of a deal in comparison to other aspects that are much bigger and much more important.

It wouldn't cost the SEC anything.

Worse matchup, worse $ to both sides.

Oh, I'm sure big 12 fans love to think this but without a big 12......there is no comparison.

This whole thread is ludicrous for the following reasons:

1. The elimination of any P4 conference would mean another 12.5 million to each of the remaining conferences in payout per year.

2. The pickup of just one content addition per conference would mean another 9 major money games to sell. The addition of 2 doubles that. The addition of one content addition and one regional brand works well too.

3. There are still markets to be exploited at 1.30 to 1.40 per subscriber per month for the SEC and a little less for the other conferences.

4. The elimination of one P4 conference virtually assures that each will have a participant in the national championship playoff each year.

5. The elimination of one P4 conference means more bowl money.

6. The elimination of one P4 conference even increases the departing schools revenue from their share of the conference offices and the elimination of the conference share of the proceeds.

7. The elimination of one P4 conference means a likely contraction in the number of schools earning a P4 paycheck. Yet another monetary reason to do it.

8. The elimination of one P4 conference cuts the overhead for the networks.

9. The elimination of one P4 conference increases the presence in new recruiting areas for each conference that absorbs part of the market.

10. So more money, a guaranteed stake in the championship, better recruiting, new markets, and added content mean that it is in the self interest of the SEC and every other P4 conference to finish off the 5th. It is a zero sum game and it is merely about cash.

That my friends is why this isn't over. And since it is a match to the bitter end I expect the Big 12 to do whatever is necessary to make the ACC look more appetizing. We have better content in the Big 12 and better markets in the ACC. It has been and will continue to be an interesting contest of wits. The waiting game of the Big 12 versus the development of markets and product by the ACC. It's not a clear cut decision yet as to which goes, but the Big 12 is definitely far more battle worn and wounded.

If Chapel Hill adopts a "what is best for the ACC" approach instead of maintaining a "what is best for Chapel Hill" approach this would be over soon and with a much more lucrative outcome for the ACC. We'll wait and see which wins out.

False. The SEC does not need the Big12 for any reason except to eventually post Oklahoma or others. The ACC could easily fill the Sugar Bowl slot...

Why would the Big 12 be destroyed? At worst it would lose 3 teams. Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. It would simply fill those slots until it got to 12 or 14. In all actuality. A newly restructured Big 12 could actually be better than the current Big 12.

(06-02-2015 10:20 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Why would the Big 12 be destroyed? At worst it would lose 3 teams. Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. It would simply fill those slots until it got to 12 or 14. In all actuality. A newly restructured Big 12 could actually be better than the current Big 12.

No matter what, without Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and Texas A&M it will no longer be considered a P conference.

(06-02-2015 03:45 PM)Dasville Wrote:  The bottom line to realignment is money. The Sugar Bowl between the SEC and Big 12 earns each Conference $40 million each from ESPN. No way that game goes away and no way is the ACC a replacement in that game. It would cost the SEC MILLIONS over the life of the contract if the Big 12 were to fold. The P5 is here to stay. Most likely in its current form.

I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n.

Hahaha. You scared. Florida State has one foot out the door. The SEC is destabilizing the ACC and you guys know it. The ACC added a bunch of crappy big east football schools and watered down the ACC. The SEC has hit home runs with every expansion move and doesn't give 2 shites about the bignot12 but wouldn't mind poaching the few remaining southern ACC schools thst move the ratings needle. Clemson, Free shoes U and gatech are the top of the batting order for the SEC

(06-02-2015 05:57 PM)RaiderRed Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 04:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 04:04 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I'm all for them staying together forever.

But as for the Sugar Bowl, the only thing that matters is that it's an SEC team playing on New Year's Day. We could play the B10 in that slot and it wouldn't matter.

Bingo! But the ACC would be more likely as ESPN would keep that revenue in house so to speak. We already play the Big 10 three times on New Years.

I really hope UT and Texas Tech join the SEC.

Texas Tech will never ever ever ever ever be in the SEC. Mountain West maybe. SEC never

Smh. Lol

(06-02-2015 10:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This whole thread is ludicrous for the following reasons:

1. The elimination of any P4 conference would mean another 12.5 million to each of the remaining conferences in payout per year.

2. The pickup of just one content addition per conference would mean another 9 major money games to sell. The addition of 2 doubles that. The addition of one content addition and one regional brand works well too.

3. There are still markets to be exploited at 1.30 to 1.40 per subscriber per month for the SEC and a little less for the other conferences.

4. The elimination of one P4 conference virtually assures that each will have a participant in the national championship playoff each year.

5. The elimination of one P4 conference means more bowl money.

6. The elimination of one P4 conference even increases the departing schools revenue from their share of the conference offices and the elimination of the conference share of the proceeds.

7. The elimination of one P4 conference means a likely contraction in the number of schools earning a P4 paycheck. Yet another monetary reason to do it.

8. The elimination of one P4 conference cuts the overhead for the networks.

9. The elimination of one P4 conference increases the presence in new recruiting areas for each conference that absorbs part of the market.

10. So more money, a guaranteed stake in the championship, better recruiting, new markets, and added content mean that it is in the self interest of the SEC and every other P4 conference to finish off the 5th. It is a zero sum game and it is merely about cash.

That my friends is why this isn't over. And since it is a match to the bitter end I expect the Big 12 to do whatever is necessary to make the ACC look more appetizing. We have better content in the Big 12 and better markets in the ACC. It has been and will continue to be an interesting contest of wits. The waiting game of the Big 12 versus the development of markets and product by the ACC. It's not a clear cut decision yet as to which goes, but the Big 12 is definitely far more battle worn and wounded.

If Chapel Hill adopts a "what is best for the ACC" approach instead of maintaining a "what is best for Chapel Hill" approach this would be over soon and with a much more lucrative outcome for the ACC. We'll wait and see which wins out.

11. Essentially creates a 8 team playoff with 4 Conference championships game being the defacto first round of the playoffs.

(06-02-2015 10:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This whole thread is ludicrous for the following reasons:

1. The elimination of any P4 conference would mean another 12.5 million to each of the remaining conferences in payout per year.

2. The pickup of just one content addition per conference would mean another 9 major money games to sell. The addition of 2 doubles that. The addition of one content addition and one regional brand works well too.

3. There are still markets to be exploited at 1.30 to 1.40 per subscriber per month for the SEC and a little less for the other conferences.

4. The elimination of one P4 conference virtually assures that each will have a participant in the national championship playoff each year.

5. The elimination of one P4 conference means more bowl money.

6. The elimination of one P4 conference even increases the departing schools revenue from their share of the conference offices and the elimination of the conference share of the proceeds.

7. The elimination of one P4 conference means a likely contraction in the number of schools earning a P4 paycheck. Yet another monetary reason to do it.

8. The elimination of one P4 conference cuts the overhead for the networks.

9. The elimination of one P4 conference increases the presence in new recruiting areas for each conference that absorbs part of the market.

10. So more money, a guaranteed stake in the championship, better recruiting, new markets, and added content mean that it is in the self interest of the SEC and every other P4 conference to finish off the 5th. It is a zero sum game and it is merely about cash.

That my friends is why this isn't over. And since it is a match to the bitter end I expect the Big 12 to do whatever is necessary to make the ACC look more appetizing. We have better content in the Big 12 and better markets in the ACC. It has been and will continue to be an interesting contest of wits. The waiting game of the Big 12 versus the development of markets and product by the ACC. It's not a clear cut decision yet as to which goes, but the Big 12 is definitely far more battle worn and wounded.

If Chapel Hill adopts a "what is best for the ACC" approach instead of maintaining a "what is best for Chapel Hill" approach this would be over soon and with a much more lucrative outcome for the ACC. We'll wait and see which wins out.

If one P4 conference gets eliminated but all the teams get absorbed there is absolutely zero difference to the schools. In a 4X16, you are only eliminating one school (and not even one if ND stays indie).

(06-02-2015 10:13 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  False. The SEC does not need the Big12 for any reason except to eventually post Oklahoma or others. The ACC could easily fill the Sugar Bowl slot...

Then why are they only getting $27.5 for the Orange Bowl?

(06-02-2015 07:28 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 03:45 PM)Dasville Wrote:  The bottom line to realignment is money. The Sugar Bowl between the SEC and Big 12 earns each Conference $40 million each from ESPN. No way that game goes away and no way is the ACC a replacement in that game. It would cost the SEC MILLIONS over the life of the contract if the Big 12 were to fold. The P5 is here to stay. Most likely in its current form.

I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n.

So....when the big 12 goes, what happens? The ACC fills in. These Bowl match ups don't matter as much as they used to. They are an after thought to the Playoff games. The SEC/big 12 match up only happens in off years when the Sugar Bowl isn't part of the playoff.

The Sugar Bowl thing really isn't that big of a deal in comparison to other aspects that are much bigger and much more important.

It wouldn't cost the SEC anything.

Maybe but you would agree with me when I say that for the ACC to remain one of the power conferences all the different factions (just the full members) must give up their immediate interests for the good of the whole. That's where I still have some doubts but if I were in their position that's how I'd go.

Also, you should mention the desire to keep most G5 schools out of the power group, which could happen if remaining at 5 conferences. They would like consolidation in order to avoid a situation where one conference takes on a "tweener status" that would subject them to pressure from the G5 schools.

Power schools want to associate with other power schools over non-power schools.

(06-02-2015 10:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 10:20 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Why would the Big 12 be destroyed? At worst it would lose 3 teams. Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. It would simply fill those slots until it got to 12 or 14. In all actuality. A newly restructured Big 12 could actually be better than the current Big 12.

No matter what, without Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and Texas A&M it will no longer be considered a P conference.

Wasn't Kansas headed to the Big East the last time the Big 12 almost died?

(06-02-2015 11:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 10:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This whole thread is ludicrous for the following reasons:

1. The elimination of any P4 conference would mean another 12.5 million to each of the remaining conferences in payout per year.

2. The pickup of just one content addition per conference would mean another 9 major money games to sell. The addition of 2 doubles that. The addition of one content addition and one regional brand works well too.

3. There are still markets to be exploited at 1.30 to 1.40 per subscriber per month for the SEC and a little less for the other conferences.

4. The elimination of one P4 conference virtually assures that each will have a participant in the national championship playoff each year.

5. The elimination of one P4 conference means more bowl money.

6. The elimination of one P4 conference even increases the departing schools revenue from their share of the conference offices and the elimination of the conference share of the proceeds.

7. The elimination of one P4 conference means a likely contraction in the number of schools earning a P4 paycheck. Yet another monetary reason to do it.

8. The elimination of one P4 conference cuts the overhead for the networks.

9. The elimination of one P4 conference increases the presence in new recruiting areas for each conference that absorbs part of the market.

10. So more money, a guaranteed stake in the championship, better recruiting, new markets, and added content mean that it is in the self interest of the SEC and every other P4 conference to finish off the 5th. It is a zero sum game and it is merely about cash.

That my friends is why this isn't over. And since it is a match to the bitter end I expect the Big 12 to do whatever is necessary to make the ACC look more appetizing. We have better content in the Big 12 and better markets in the ACC. It has been and will continue to be an interesting contest of wits. The waiting game of the Big 12 versus the development of markets and product by the ACC. It's not a clear cut decision yet as to which goes, but the Big 12 is definitely far more battle worn and wounded.

If Chapel Hill adopts a "what is best for the ACC" approach instead of maintaining a "what is best for Chapel Hill" approach this would be over soon and with a much more lucrative outcome for the ACC. We'll wait and see which wins out.

If one P4 conference gets eliminated but all the teams get absorbed there is absolutely zero difference to the schools. In a 4X16, you are only eliminating one school (and not even one if ND stays indie).

I don't see the PAC taking 4 or expanding. I would see a reduction to 60.

(06-02-2015 11:10 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 03:45 PM)Dasville Wrote:  The bottom line to realignment is money. The Sugar Bowl between the SEC and Big 12 earns each Conference $40 million each from ESPN. No way that game goes away and no way is the ACC a replacement in that game. It would cost the SEC MILLIONS over the life of the contract if the Big 12 were to fold. The P5 is here to stay. Most likely in its current form.

I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n.

Hahaha. You scared. Florida State has one foot out the door. The SEC is destabilizing the ACC and you guys know it. The ACC added a bunch of crappy big east football schools and watered down the ACC. The SEC has hit home runs with every expansion move and doesn't give 2 shites about the bignot12 but wouldn't mind poaching the few remaining southern ACC schools thst move the ratings needle. Clemson, Free shoes U and gatech are the top of the batting order for the SEC

Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, North Carolina and Virginia could get picked up by the Big 10, and maybe Buffalo to make it even. 20 teams make the Big 10 greedy.

SEC will get Virginia Tech and and NC State.

Big 12 will get Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF, East Carolina and Northern Illinois to go to 16.

PAC 12 will go with Boise State, Hawaii, San Diego State, Nevada-Reno, Fresno State and Colorado State. It does not be academics anymore. It is now more about making money, and to provide the best on the field performance. Boise State fits that profile.

Miami, Florida, Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Boston College and Pittsburgh either try and stay a P5, or get regulated to the G5 ranks. Miami have lost all ground when their games get less than 1 million tvs watching them. The scandals have hurt them big time.

that is not happening.

(06-03-2015 06:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, North Carolina and Virginia could get picked up by the Big 10, and maybe Buffalo to make it even. 20 teams make the Big 10 greedy.

SEC will get Virginia Tech and and NC State.

Big 12 will get Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF, East Carolina and Northern Illinois to go to 16.

PAC 12 will go with Boise State, Hawaii, San Diego State, Nevada-Reno, Fresno State and Colorado State. It does not be academics anymore. It is now more about making money, and to provide the best on the field performance. Boise State fits that profile.

Miami, Florida, Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Boston College and Pittsburgh either try and stay a P5, or get regulated to the G5 ranks. Miami have lost all ground when their games get less than 1 million tvs watching them. The scandals have hurt them big time.

This is the same level of ridiculous as the Tulane to Big XII or Rice to PAC-12 rumors.

The ACC has no reason to split as-is. This might change in 10-12 years, but right now you have a number of VERY happy schools in the ACC.

If the ACC were to split - I'm just playing along at this point - I have a number of issues with your predictions:

1. Miami (FL), Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Boston College and Pittsburgh have more value than you think they do. Syracuse is a super-massive giant currently in a coma - if they wake up, look out...

2. The PAC-12 would rather add eastern or southern schools before some of those listed. Academics does matter to a league that contains USC, UCLA, Cal, UW, and Stanford.

3. The Big XII would add 2 and then sit for 10 years until they can reassess the field.

4. Your B1G additions are a little heavy handed - but not as bad as some of the other additions.

5. I don't think you are paying TV viewership numbers enough respect in your scenario. You are ignoring the Northeast when they have HUGE population centers and TV ratings to supply CFB with.

The Sugar Bowl makes each SEC team about $3 million a piece when played. The only teams added to the SEC that might add that amount to each team is Oklahoma and Texas.
Texas isn't joining the SEC and refuses to play Texas A&M. I don't think Oklahoma would be willing to separate itself from Texas like Texas A&M is.

If that is correct, then the money dictates keeping the Big 12 alive and well for the SEC.

The ACC was turned down for the Sugar Bowl because it is the SEC's "major geographic competitor" according to its own market analysis as uncovered by the Maryland lawsuit and referenced in the Washington Post.

The Orange only pays out $27 million to both the ACC and SEC/B1G when they play. That would lead me to believe that the Sugar Bowl and Rose Bowl "value" isn't just in the presence of one of their teams being in the Bowl, but that it is B1G vs Pac 12 and SEC vs Big 12.

Any SEC team doesn't raise the Bowl payout for the Orange.

The SEC will prop up the Big 12 and try to limit the ACC at every turn. It just makes money and recruiting sense.

I agree that the only thing that would change the tide against the Big 12's favor is if the Playoffs expanded.

I don't think they will and therefor, the SEC needs the Big 12.

(06-02-2015 11:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 10:13 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  False. The SEC does not need the Big12 for any reason except to eventually post Oklahoma or others. The ACC could easily fill the Sugar Bowl slot...

Then why are they only getting $27.5 for the Orange Bowl?

Because of the opponent. The Orange Bowl is the only one of the three contract bowls not to have two "champions" contracted to play. The OB said it themselves. I use champions in quotation marks since most years the champion will actually be in the playoffs.

(06-03-2015 03:15 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 11:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 10:13 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  False. The SEC does not need the Big12 for any reason except to eventually post Oklahoma or others. The ACC could easily fill the Sugar Bowl slot...

Then why are they only getting $27.5 for the Orange Bowl?

Because of the opponent. The Orange Bowl is the only one of the three contract bowls not to have two "champions" contracted to play. The OB said it themselves. I use champions in quotation marks since most years the champion will actually be in the playoffs.

I thought ALL SEC football teams were worth the same to the Bowls?

(06-02-2015 05:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 03:45 PM)Dasville Wrote:  The bottom line to realignment is money. The Sugar Bowl between the SEC and Big 12 earns each Conference $40 million each from ESPN. No way that game goes away and no way is the ACC a replacement in that game. It would cost the SEC MILLIONS over the life of the contract if the Big 12 were to fold. The P5 is here to stay. Most likely in its current form.

I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n.

I think the SEC wants the Big 12 to expand, and may have given some ideas on who the Big 12 can take. Memphis was a rival to SEC in football and basketball and could be one of their wish list.

Yeah, you kinda lost me at "Memphis".

The SEC doesn't NEED the Big XII to survive. As long as Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Baylor survive -- ok, toss in Kansas State, too -- that's all that really matters.