(05-26-2015 09:35 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 03:28 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 03:19 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  You need proposed deregulation to make it work.
EAST
Cinci
UCONN
ECU
UCF
USF

CENTRAL
Houston
SMU
Tulane
Memphis
NIU

WEST
BYU
Boise
CSU
FSU
SDSU

Four games in division plus two games (H-H) versus other divisions for 8 game conference schedule. Top two division champs play in CCG (reduces the chance of a really bad CCG).

3 divisions will never work.

It does if the conference championship game gets deregulated. In fact, it works better because the top 2 ranked teams play which generate more interest.

I was talking about the CCG being deregulated. The 1 division champ being left out will have a lot to say about not playing in the CCG. That will cause more division within a conference.

(05-27-2015 12:38 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 09:35 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 03:28 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 03:19 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  You need proposed deregulation to make it work.
EAST
Cinci
UCONN
ECU
UCF
USF

CENTRAL
Houston
SMU
Tulane
Memphis
NIU

WEST
BYU
Boise
CSU
FSU
SDSU

Four games in division plus two games (H-H) versus other divisions for 8 game conference schedule. Top two division champs play in CCG (reduces the chance of a really bad CCG).

3 divisions will never work.

It does if the conference championship game gets deregulated. In fact, it works better because the top 2 ranked teams play which generate more interest.

I was talking about the CCG being deregulated. The 1 division champ being left out will have a lot to say about not playing in the CCG. That will cause more division within a conference.

Agree.

(05-27-2015 12:05 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  No Boise or NIU.

Add BYU, Air Force, San Diego St, Fresno St, Colorado St & UNLV in the order. Turn the MWC into the SunBelt/MAC/CUSA.

East:
UConn
Temple
Navy
ECU
Cincinnati
Memphis
Tulane
UCF
USF

West:
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
Colorado St
Air Force
BYU
UNLV
Fresno St
San Diego St.

Let Boise die on the vine of their sweetheart deal.

Like them or not, Boise is the school that has the most TV value by a large margin along with realistically being open to joining a conference like this (unlike BYU). The fact that BYU won't be involved is already going to make it hard to get any legit TV money payout raise. Without Boise State, this exercise is largely pointless since the TV money isn't going to materialize (and means that everyone is just better off staying where they are).

(05-27-2015 12:12 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  If we are leaving out BYU. We should leave out Boise too. Let 'em wither away.

East:
UConn
Temple
Navy
ECU
Cincinnati
Memphis
UCF
USF

West:
Houston
SMU
New Mexico
UNLV
Colorado St.
Air Force
Fresno St
San Diego St.

Boise St. would go independent and have plenty of game inventory from the above list and BYU while the AAC/MWC per-team payout from the tv deal actually diminishes quite substantially, and Boise keeps even more of the money pot.

If you review the 2014 American and MWC TV ratings, you'll see that Boise St. at UConn was by far the best rating of the year.

(05-27-2015 03:02 PM)YNot Wrote:  Boise St. would go independent and have plenty of game inventory from the above list and BYU while the AAC/MWC per-team payout from the tv deal actually diminishes quite substantially, and Boise keeps even more of the money pot.

Boise State's entire brand is as a BCS buster. In no way could they maintain their brand as an independent without the Go5 access bowl tie-in.

People act like the difference in TV revenue between the AAC, MWC (from top to bottom), and BYU is really the biggest issue guiding these schools. The fiscal wellness of these schools is FAR more dependent on non-TV related revenue streams. And those revenue streams (donors, ticket sales, etc) are very much dependent on maintaining fan/donor enthusiasm. I don't know about about other schools being mentioned, but people seem to be unaware of how much independence has killed fan enthusiasm at BYU.

Every one of these schools has to be looking long-term at getting invited to a P5 conference. In the interim, their interests are best served by cultivating a strong base of donors and fans. I also think that "a best of" conference is a better long-term solution for doing so than is playing games against San Jose State and Temple.

(05-27-2015 12:58 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(05-27-2015 12:38 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 09:35 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 03:28 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 03:19 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  You need proposed deregulation to make it work.
division plus two games (H-H) versus other divisions for 8 game conference schedule. Top two division champs play in CCG (reduces the chance of a really bad CCG).

3 divisions will never work.

It does if the conference championship game gets deregulated. In fact, it works better because the top 2 ranked teams play which generate more interest.

I was talking about the CCG being deregulated. The 1 division champ being left out will have a lot to say about not playing in the CCG. That will cause more division within a conference.

Agree.

Completely disagree. Exposure is critical for these schools, and a "who gets left out" controversy would be as good at generating talking head media buzz as it has been for the P5 and the four team CFP. An East Coast v West Coast v Gulf Coast rivalry would only make the conference stronger and would be the one element that would make every cross divisional game intensely interesting rather than a meaningless exhibition. The "left behind" phenomenon is what would make this conference work.

(05-27-2015 10:06 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Like I've said here before, being independent allows BYU to brand themselves as "special" in a way that even many other P5 schools aren't able to do (i.e. "We have the power to be independent in a way that Utah can't!"), whereas joining a G5 conference unambiguously cements second-class status in their minds.

That branding seems to be working better on outsiders than internally on BYU's own fan base. For BYU, winning can still solidify independent status, but if this year brings losses to Boise and USU like last year, the notion of being "special" just won't fly, and the willingness to settle for at least being on par with BSU and heads above USU might.

Also, these schools only need a deftly played "good cop/bad cop" approach to inviting BYU else freezing BYU out of scheduling to make it happen. Hair Thompson couldn't pull it off, but he's a moron.

BYU would never join the Go5 but the formation of a "best of the rest" would end the Go5. This conference would be a tweener, as much as BYU is now.

There may be a best of the rest conference that will consist primarily of MWC teams but, not AAC teams.

After this next and probably final round (For quite some time) of realignment, the Big 12 will become the Big 16. This will cause a tidal wave in movement.

The AAC will be gone. The P5 will all be at 16 teams and there will still be the MWC, CUSA, etc.

Big12 West: Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas and Kansas St.

Big 12 East: Iowa St, WVU, South Florida (Tampa Market), UCF (Orlando Market), Memphis (Memphis Market), Cincinnati (Cincinnati Market), NIU (Chicago Market) and Tulane (New Orleans Market).

ACC: Will take in Navy (Gets them back in Maryland and both the Baltimore and Washington DC Markets) and UConn (Finally getting the call. Will help solidify the ACC as the dominant conference in NYC).

B1G: Will take in Temple (Philadelphia Market) and one other Possibly Buffalo (Already an AAU member also adds physical presence in NY State).

SEC: Will take in ECU (SEC game day environment already exists here with 50K+ Pirates strong) and ODU (Norfolk, Newport and VA Beach Market).

PAC: Will take in Houston (Market + 50K+ Undergrads per year trumps Academics), SMU (Dallas Ft Worth Market) and Tulsa (Rare school that's good in all sports and has a market the PAC can use). They may also invite UNLV.

So, Mr. Aresco was right when he said the AAC was a power conference. Just not one by it's self.

For this to work we have to have Boise in.....

BYU, Boise, AF, SDSU....

without Boise, forget it.

(05-27-2015 08:56 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  For this to work we have to have Boise in.....

BYU, Boise, AF, SDSU....

without Boise, forget it.

Shush!!!! I've got the Big 12 on the line now.

(05-27-2015 03:51 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(05-27-2015 03:02 PM)YNot Wrote:  Boise St. would go independent and have plenty of game inventory from the above list and BYU while the AAC/MWC per-team payout from the tv deal actually diminishes quite substantially, and Boise keeps even more of the money pot.

Boise State's entire brand is as a BCS buster. In no way could they maintain their brand as an independent without the Go5 access bowl tie-in.

People act like the difference in TV revenue between the AAC, MWC (from top to bottom), and BYU is really the biggest issue guiding these schools. The fiscal wellness of these schools is FAR more dependent on non-TV related revenue streams. And those revenue streams (donors, ticket sales, etc) are very much dependent on maintaining fan/donor enthusiasm. I don't know about about other schools being mentioned, but people seem to be unaware of how much independence has killed fan enthusiasm at BYU.

Every one of these schools has to be looking long-term at getting invited to a P5 conference. In the interim, their interests are best served by cultivating a strong base of donors and fans. I also think that "a best of" conference is a better long-term solution for doing so than is playing games against San Jose State and Temple.

In my opinion, a couple seasons of less than stellar home schedules and some disappointing losses have been the biggest problem for BYU fans resulting in dropping attendance and lower fan enthusiasm. The 2015 home schedule won't improve much either--though in 2016 UCLA, Mississippi State, and Utah State at home should improve attendance (and hopefully fan enthusiasm). In 2017 they get Utah at home. And in 2019 they get Wisconsin, USC, and Washington at home. Independent schedules are tough to pull off and there certainly are lean years at home and little room for error to keep fans excited. I agree and don't see Boise State wanting to try the independent road.

(05-27-2015 08:26 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  ACC: Will take in Navy (Gets them back in Maryland and both the Baltimore and Washington DC Markets) and UConn (Finally getting the call. Will help solidify the ACC as the dominant conference in NYC).

B1G: Will take in Temple (Philadelphia Market) and one other Possibly Buffalo (Already an AAU member also adds physical presence in NY State).

Navy is not going to the ACC. UConn maybe, but I get the feeling its more likely they'd end up in the Big Ten at this point.

Big Ten: No need for Temple at all, its called Penn State, Rutgers and Maryland for the Philly market. The Philly market consists of Mercer, Camden, Burlington, Cape May, Salem, Atlantic, Cumberland and Gloucester Counties in NJ(!), Cecil County in MD(!), plus most of Delaware and a nice chunk of PA including Philly proper.

Buffalo, no way this ever happens. UConn definitely gets in before both schools given they have outstanding basketball, have D-1 ice hockey, sponsor women's LAX, etc. etc. If the Big Ten ever goes to 16 and does so with either a 1 west and 1 east or 1 southeast and 1 northeast approach UConn will almost assuredly be that east or northeast member from what I can project.

(05-28-2015 01:40 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(05-27-2015 08:26 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  ACC: Will take in Navy (Gets them back in Maryland and both the Baltimore and Washington DC Markets) and UConn (Finally getting the call. Will help solidify the ACC as the dominant conference in NYC).

B1G: Will take in Temple (Philadelphia Market) and one other Possibly Buffalo (Already an AAU member also adds physical presence in NY State).

Navy is not going to the ACC. UConn maybe, but I get the feeling its more likely they'd end up in the Big Ten at this point.

Big Ten: No need for Temple at all, its called Penn State, Rutgers and Maryland for the Philly market. The Philly market consists of Mercer, Camden, Burlington, Cape May, Salem, Atlantic, Cumberland and Gloucester Counties in NJ(!), Cecil County in MD(!), plus most of Delaware and a nice chunk of PA including Philly proper.

Buffalo, no way this ever happens. UConn definitely gets in before both schools given they have outstanding basketball, have D-1 ice hockey, sponsor women's LAX, etc. etc. If the Big Ten ever goes to 16 and does so with either a 1 west and 1 east or 1 southeast and 1 northeast approach UConn will almost assuredly be that east or northeast member from what I can project.

Also, isn't Syracuse in the B1G line at least before Temple?

Syracuse can actually make a claim to the NYC market - at least as much as UConn. And, Syracuse is a former AAU (voluntarily withdrew the same year Nebraska was voted out) - that might count for something...

I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G called on UConn before Syracuse - but the inverse wouldn't surprise either.

No way BYU joins a conference unless its the Big XII

No way Army, Navy, and Air Force join new conferences....

If there was a "best of the rest" conference, I'd start in Texas....Boise State would be a must, Cincinnati, UCF, East Carolina, UConn, and San Diego State would be good additions

The problem is, if you create this conference, you better be willing to expand large enough to make sure you're getting the Access bid to the playoff bowls every year, or else what's the point?

(05-28-2015 02:30 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 01:40 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(05-27-2015 08:26 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  ACC: Will take in Navy (Gets them back in Maryland and both the Baltimore and Washington DC Markets) and UConn (Finally getting the call. Will help solidify the ACC as the dominant conference in NYC).

B1G: Will take in Temple (Philadelphia Market) and one other Possibly Buffalo (Already an AAU member also adds physical presence in NY State).

Navy is not going to the ACC. UConn maybe, but I get the feeling its more likely they'd end up in the Big Ten at this point.

Big Ten: No need for Temple at all, its called Penn State, Rutgers and Maryland for the Philly market. The Philly market consists of Mercer, Camden, Burlington, Cape May, Salem, Atlantic, Cumberland and Gloucester Counties in NJ(!), Cecil County in MD(!), plus most of Delaware and a nice chunk of PA including Philly proper.

Buffalo, no way this ever happens. UConn definitely gets in before both schools given they have outstanding basketball, have D-1 ice hockey, sponsor women's LAX, etc. etc. If the Big Ten ever goes to 16 and does so with either a 1 west and 1 east or 1 southeast and 1 northeast approach UConn will almost assuredly be that east or northeast member from what I can project.

Also, isn't Syracuse in the B1G line at least before Temple?

Syracuse can actually make a claim to the NYC market - at least as much as UConn. And, Syracuse is a former AAU (voluntarily withdrew the same year Nebraska was voted out) - that might count for something...

I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G called on UConn before Syracuse - but the inverse wouldn't surprise either.

I think if Syracuse was attractive to the B1G, they'd already be in the conference....

(05-28-2015 02:30 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 01:40 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(05-27-2015 08:26 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  ACC: Will take in Navy (Gets them back in Maryland and both the Baltimore and Washington DC Markets) and UConn (Finally getting the call. Will help solidify the ACC as the dominant conference in NYC).

B1G: Will take in Temple (Philadelphia Market) and one other Possibly Buffalo (Already an AAU member also adds physical presence in NY State).

Navy is not going to the ACC. UConn maybe, but I get the feeling its more likely they'd end up in the Big Ten at this point.

Big Ten: No need for Temple at all, its called Penn State, Rutgers and Maryland for the Philly market. The Philly market consists of Mercer, Camden, Burlington, Cape May, Salem, Atlantic, Cumberland and Gloucester Counties in NJ(!), Cecil County in MD(!), plus most of Delaware and a nice chunk of PA including Philly proper.

Buffalo, no way this ever happens. UConn definitely gets in before both schools given they have outstanding basketball, have D-1 ice hockey, sponsor women's LAX, etc. etc. If the Big Ten ever goes to 16 and does so with either a 1 west and 1 east or 1 southeast and 1 northeast approach UConn will almost assuredly be that east or northeast member from what I can project.

Also, isn't Syracuse in the B1G line at least before Temple?

Syracuse can actually make a claim to the NYC market - at least as much as UConn. And, Syracuse is a former AAU (voluntarily withdrew the same year Nebraska was voted out) - that might count for something...

I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G called on UConn before Syracuse - but the inverse wouldn't surprise either.

Ahem AAC GOR. B1G doesn't want or need to play with that again. Why bother anyway.

(05-28-2015 02:47 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  No way BYU joins a conference unless its the Big XII

No way Army, Navy, and Air Force join new conferences....

If there was a "best of the rest" conference, I'd start in Texas....Boise State would be a must, Cincinnati, UCF, East Carolina, UConn, and San Diego State would be good additions

The problem is, if you create this conference, you better be willing to expand large enough to make sure you're getting the Access bid to the playoff bowls every year, or else what's the point?

All three of Army, Navy and Air Force could move to a P5 conference for exposure to recruit new people into the military. They can't where they are at right now.

(05-28-2015 08:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 02:47 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  No way BYU joins a conference unless its the Big XII

No way Army, Navy, and Air Force join new conferences....

If there was a "best of the rest" conference, I'd start in Texas....Boise State would be a must, Cincinnati, UCF, East Carolina, UConn, and San Diego State would be good additions

The problem is, if you create this conference, you better be willing to expand large enough to make sure you're getting the Access bid to the playoff bowls every year, or else what's the point?

All three of Army, Navy and Air Force could move to a P5 conference for exposure to recruit new people into the military. They can't where they are at right now.

Army dropped out of CUSA because they couldn't compete. Air Force has refused at least two overtures from the Big XII because of concerns about their athletes being hurt. Their O and D lines average 60 to 70 pounds less than the opposing D and O lines in the Big XII. At one time, Air Force tried to get their basketball and Oly sports out of the MWC. There is no damn way they want those sport in the Big XII.

The academies being in a P5 conference will not get them any new recruits to the military. 5, 4 and even 3 star athletes have no interest in serving a 4 or 5 year military obligation. They have hopes of going pro. Besides, most football players are too fat to meet military standards, and many are too tall. Most basketball players will be too tall.

Seems like the majority of this thread is about the AAC and what they can do to make things better. IMHO, they should:

• Keep their current set up, or possibly expand with UMASS and Buffalo
• Go to a 10 game conf schedule
• Continue to monitor the the situation so that they can react quickly to any changes.
  

(05-29-2015 09:25 AM)lew240z Wrote:  Army dropped out of CUSA because they couldn't compete. Air Force has refused at least two overtures from the Big XII because of concerns about their athletes being hurt. Their O and D lines average 60 to 70 pounds less than the opposing D and O lines in the Big XII. At one time, Air Force tried to get their basketball and Oly sports out of the MWC. There is no damn way they want those sport in the Big XII.

The academies being in a P5 conference will not get them any new recruits to the military. 5, 4 and even 3 star athletes have no interest in serving a 4 or 5 year military obligation. They have hopes of going pro. Besides, most football players are too fat to meet military standards, and many are too tall. Most basketball players will be too tall.

I agree that P5 affiliation would do little to help military academy recruiting and would provide too high level of competition and injury risk.

But, Army, Navy, and Air Force in the same AMERICAN conference is tremendous branding and will return solid exposure and TV ratings. IMO, even better ratings if in the same division. Here's how you land Army and Air Force in an 18-team American conference:

First, Army. Looking over their schedule from 2008 to 2020, in addition to Navy and AFA, the template generally includes teams from:

- Texas (CUSA)
- Ohio or Indiana (MAC)
- North Carolina (Duke or Wake Forest)
- NY/NJ/New England (Rutgers, Buffalo, UMass, w/ UConn and BC in '12 to '15)
- California/Hawaii (MWC, w/ Stanford in '13 and '14)
- Temple or Tulane
- Other - w/ E. Michigan or W. Kentucky in 12 of 14 years
- FCS

With deregulation likely, you could give Army a conference schedule that includes:
1) Navy
2) Air Force
3) SMU/Houston
4) Tulane/Temple
5) UConn/ECU/Cincinnati
6) SDSU/Fresno
7&8) Two out of Tulsa/UCF/USF/BYU/Boise/Memphis

Army would still have 4 OOC games to schedule Duke/Wake, Buffalo/UMass/Rutgers/BC, E. Michigan/W. Kentucky, and FCS.

With Navy and Army both in the conference, and deregulation, Air Force could get a schedule like:

1) Army
2) Navy
3) SDSU/Fresno
4) Boise/BYU
5) Houston/SMU
6) Tulsa/Memphis/Tulane
7&8) Two out of UCF/USF/Cincinnati/ECU/UConn/Temple

Air Force would have the 4 OOC games to schedule CSU, Wyoming and other MWC and FCS opponents and the occasional P5 game.

Even if you went with more rigid divisional schedules, put Army, Navy, and Air Force together in the Central division and you get:

1) Army/Navy/Air Force
2) Army/Navy/Air Force
3) SMU
4) Houston
5) Tulane
6/7) 1 or 2 out of Boise/BYU/SDSU/Fresno/Memphis/Tulsa (2 for Air Force)
7/8) 1 or 2 out of Temple/UConn/UCF/USF/Cincinnati/ECU (2 for Army/Navy)

I also believe that if the American were to add Air Force and Army, you could get BYU and Boise St.'s attention. IMO, BYU will come around within the next 3 years or so and would go for a schedule that included:

1) Boise St.
2) SDSU
3) Fresno St.
4) Air Force/Army/Navy
5&6) 2 out of Houston/SMU/Memphis/Tulsa/Tulane
7&8) 2 out of UConn/Temple/ECU/Cincinnati/UCF/USF

And 4 OOC games to play P5 opponents and Utah St./Hawaii.