(05-23-2015 09:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: Ohio State by a landslide. Fewer things irk me more than Miami students/alums who arbitrarily cheer for the Buckeyes just because it's a lot easier to root for them than us, I'm sure it's worse now than when I went there. Michigan is second since their hockey team has pissed me off many times in the past, I'm not from Ohio so that has nothing to do with it.
If some of you non-MAC fans go to the MAC board and look at the 'Most Ohio universities in jeopardy' thread, you'll find and good history of OSU's stranglehold on Ohio by perimeterpost. Long story short, then-governor Rutherford B. Hayes lobbied hard to create a new university to designate as the Ohio flagship as opposed to the Miami or OU (both of which were over half a century old by that point); he also pushed hard for the university to be located in Columbus (instead of Springfield/Urbana) and shift to being a comprehensive university as opposed to agricultural. A law passed in the early 20th century permitted only OSU to offer doctorate degrees, which all but guaranteed that OSU would be the dominant force in Ohio higher education.
Cal led the UC System to do the same in CA. Cal State schools are not legally allowed to offer doctoral degrees. Both schools put their prestige above the welfare of the state.
I think they are changing that to make a couple of the state schools to be more attractive for realignment purposes. San Diego State and Fresno State. If they turn these two into the likes of California, UCLA, USC and Stanford? They could be PAC 12 potential. Cal.-Davis and Cal.-Poly can not make it since they both are far behind. It won't take much to turn San Diego State and Fresno State to be PAC 12 calibre.
(05-23-2015 10:15 PM)perimeterpost Wrote: In the 1990s Ohio State University sued Ohio University because Ohio University licensed their name own name (OHIO). OSU, founded 66 years after OU, claimed that THEY owned the name OHIO, not Ohio. How big of an a-hole do you have to be to sue another school for tradmarking their own name?
Of course, Ohio State lost the lawsuit as OU's lawyers were able to produce hundreds of documents verifying the public use of the name "Ohio" long before OSU tried to lay claim to it, including an OSU yearbook from the late 1800s that referred to an athletic match between Ohio State and Ohio. OU allowed OSU to keep certain traditional uses of the word Ohio (a mistake imo) such as Ohio Stadium and Script Ohio, but all other uses of Ohio are forbidden. OSU had regularly used "Ohio" without the word "State" on uniforms (see Jesse Owens pic below).
To this day Buckeye fans continue to cheer "OH" - "IO", do their stupid O-H-I-O YMCA thing (pic below), and cheer "O-H-I-O" at football games, even AT Michigan, while pretending to be offended by being called Ohio by Michigan fans (vid below). The best is when they broke out all of their OHIO cheers while playing against Ohio, the looks on their fans faces as they slowly realized they were cheering for the other team was priceless.
Can you imagine Florida State claiming the name Florida, or Michigan State claiming the name Michigan? And what other fan base primarily refers to itself by the name of another D1 school? It's absurd. There are plenty of B1G teams that are bad but Ohio State is by far THE WORST.
Ohio isn't afraid to remind to the Buckeyes who owns the name though, these are some of the popular slogans on apparel and merchandise at the local campus book stores-
(05-23-2015 10:15 PM)perimeterpost Wrote: In the 1990s Ohio State University sued Ohio University because Ohio University licensed their name own name (OHIO). OSU, founded 66 years after OU, claimed that THEY owned the name OHIO, not Ohio. How big of an a-hole do you have to be to sue another school for tradmarking their own name?
Of course, Ohio State lost the lawsuit as OU's lawyers were able to produce hundreds of documents verifying the public use of the name "Ohio" long before OSU tried to lay claim to it, including an OSU yearbook from the late 1800s that referred to an athletic match between Ohio State and Ohio. OU allowed OSU to keep certain traditional uses of the word Ohio (a mistake imo) such as Ohio Stadium and Script Ohio, but all other uses of Ohio are forbidden. OSU had regularly used "Ohio" without the word "State" on uniforms (see Jesse Owens pic below).
To this day Buckeye fans continue to cheer "OH" - "IO", do their stupid O-H-I-O YMCA thing (pic below), and cheer "O-H-I-O" at football games, even AT Michigan, while pretending to be offended by being called Ohio by Michigan fans (vid below). The best is when they broke out all of their OHIO cheers while playing against Ohio, the looks on their fans faces as they slowly realized they were cheering for the other team was priceless.
Can you imagine Florida State claiming the name Florida, or Michigan State claiming the name Michigan? And what other fan base primarily refers to itself by the name of another D1 school? It's absurd. There are plenty of B1G teams that are bad but Ohio State is by far THE WORST.
Ohio isn't afraid to remind to the Buckeyes who owns the name though, these are some of the popular slogans on apparel and merchandise at the local campus book stores-
I can't stand the Thee thing no one else is thee U of why did they need to do that?
You would think some less accomplished school would need a gimmicky thing like THEE.
Even though my school in now in B1G, I was never a fan of the conference. To me, their brand is boring. Perhaps a lot of it has to do with my east coast bias. Obviously I preferred the ACC, but I liked the pre-2004 Big East even more. It's too bad the ACC has to resort to raiding as opposed to cracking the whip at home.
(05-23-2015 09:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: If some of you non-MAC fans go to the MAC board and look at the 'Most Ohio universities in jeopardy' thread, you'll find and good history of OSU's stranglehold on Ohio by perimeterpost. Long story short, then-governor Rutherford B. Hayes lobbied hard to create a new university to designate as the Ohio flagship as opposed to the Miami or OU (both of which were over half a century old by that point); he also pushed hard for the university to be located in Columbus (instead of Springfield/Urbana) and shift to being a comprehensive university as opposed to agricultural. A law passed in the early 20th century permitted only OSU to offer doctorate degrees, which all but guaranteed that OSU would be the dominant force in Ohio higher education.
Cal led the UC System to do the same in CA. Cal State schools are not legally allowed to offer doctoral degrees. Both schools put their prestige above the welfare of the state.
Sorry to hear that, although I would venture to guess that California is not as bad as Ohio when it comes to sports. Academically I can imagine that they're a pain in the ass since they have to maintain their prestige in Berkeley especially.
The Ohio doctorate law was repealed (or expired, I'm not sure) in the 50's when the population so big that they had to lift the cap because demand was so high; by that point they were well established as the most powerful university in the state. It's strange considering that OSU's president at the time of its original passage was Miami's president for eight years.
With the higher ed bubble escalating, you can bet the farm that everyone else but OSU will be on the cutting block. Miami is safe since only 8% of our funding comes from the state, UC is in a similar position as well. OU should be alright since they're the only major college in southern Ohio, but smaller schools (Shawnee State, Central State) and schools that are located in the same region (Toledo-BGSU, Kent-Akron-Youngstown-Cleveland State) will be at risk.
(05-23-2015 09:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: Ohio State by a landslide. Fewer things irk me more than Miami students/alums who arbitrarily cheer for the Buckeyes just because it's a lot easier to root for them than us, I'm sure it's worse now than when I went there. Michigan is second since their hockey team has pissed me off many times in the past, I'm not from Ohio so that has nothing to do with it.
If some of you non-MAC fans go to the MAC board and look at the 'Most Ohio universities in jeopardy' thread, you'll find and good history of OSU's stranglehold on Ohio by perimeterpost. Long story short, then-governor Rutherford B. Hayes lobbied hard to create a new university to designate as the Ohio flagship as opposed to the Miami or OU (both of which were over half a century old by that point); he also pushed hard for the university to be located in Columbus (instead of Springfield/Urbana) and shift to being a comprehensive university as opposed to agricultural. A law passed in the early 20th century permitted only OSU to offer doctorate degrees, which all but guaranteed that OSU would be the dominant force in Ohio higher education.
Cal led the UC System to do the same in CA. Cal State schools are not legally allowed to offer doctoral degrees. Both schools put their prestige above the welfare of the state.
That limitation on doctorate degrees did not apply to Cincinnati, Akron, or Toledo - they were all metro universities who received all their funding from the city.
San Diego State does offer some doctorate degrees - but they have to be nominally "co-sponsored" by another institution. SDSU and Cincinnati are actually in similar positions - in a major metro area, and clearly the most powerful institution locally, but totally outgunned at the statehouse (for UC it doesn't help that almost half of the local voters/alumni who would support us are in Kentucky or Indiana).
(05-23-2015 09:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: If some of you non-MAC fans go to the MAC board and look at the 'Most Ohio universities in jeopardy' thread, you'll find and good history of OSU's stranglehold on Ohio by perimeterpost. Long story short, then-governor Rutherford B. Hayes lobbied hard to create a new university to designate as the Ohio flagship as opposed to the Miami or OU (both of which were over half a century old by that point); he also pushed hard for the university to be located in Columbus (instead of Springfield/Urbana) and shift to being a comprehensive university as opposed to agricultural. A law passed in the early 20th century permitted only OSU to offer doctorate degrees, which all but guaranteed that OSU would be the dominant force in Ohio higher education.
Cal led the UC System to do the same in CA. Cal State schools are not legally allowed to offer doctoral degrees. Both schools put their prestige above the welfare of the state.
Sorry to hear that, although I would venture to guess that California is not as bad as Ohio when it comes to sports. Academically I can imagine that they're a pain in the ass since they have to maintain their prestige in Berkeley especially.
The Ohio doctorate law was repealed (or expired, I'm not sure) in the 50's when the population so big that they had to lift the cap because demand was so high; by that point they were well established as the most powerful university in the state. It's strange considering that OSU's president at the time of its original passage was Miami's president for eight years.
With the higher ed bubble escalating, you can bet the farm that everyone else but OSU will be on the cutting block. Miami is safe since only 8% of our funding comes from the state, UC is in a similar position as well. OU should be alright since they're the only major college in southern Ohio, but smaller schools (Shawnee State, Central State) and schools that are located in the same region (Toledo-BGSU, Kent-Akron-Youngstown-Cleveland State) will be at risk.
You're right that UC and Miami are the least dependent on state funds - Miami because they charge very high tuition for a public school, and UC because of our large endowment.
But historically UC hasn't been subject to any restrictions from the state of Ohio like Miami/OU were, because we weren't a state school until the 70s. I think OSU has a more reflexively defensive stance now than they used to because the addition of UC, Toledo, and Akron to Miami, OU, and Kent means that OSU no longer has the power to dictate terms to everyone else.
(05-23-2015 03:32 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: My vote is for Maryland. And you'd think that would be because they left the ACC... but you would be wrong.
My selection is purely for the horrific way Maryland treated Ralph Friedgen, who will probably end up in the GT Sports Hall of Fame. Fired with 9 wins as ACC COTY. After he took them for dead for 30 years to relevant, an ACC title, and an Orange Bowl.
After being fired, Fridge said he tore up his Maryland diploma and was a GT fan now. He also said he wasn't treated like an alumni when he was hired, while he was there, and certainly not when he was fired.
It was regrettable the way it ended. As a Maryland fan, I'll always have love for Ralph and what he did his first three years here.
But the key is the first three years. The last seven years were mediocre, and there was little sign the mediocrity would abate. The ACC COY of the year season was fun, but we did that on the heels of a 2-10 season, with another one to follow in 2011 after Ralph left.
What's worse is there were growing off the field issues with the players on the team, and they weren't getting it done in the classroom.
The choices were to extend Ralph, let him coach his last season as a lame duck, or fire him. Number one was not the right move and number two was a non-starter. It should have come to a firing, but it was the right move in the end.
(05-24-2015 02:17 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: Ohio State. The emphasis of "THE" is enough to fuel my hatred for the Buckeyes.
The emphasis of "THE" grew in popularity after they lost their lawsuit to own the name OHIO, it's their very childish way of saying "nuh-uh, we're Ohio's university". Petty and sad.
I grin every time I see my diploma because the official name of OU is listed as "The Ohio University".
(05-24-2015 12:57 AM)Sactowndog Wrote: Cal led the UC System to do the same in CA. Cal State schools are not legally allowed to offer doctoral degrees. Both schools put their prestige above the welfare of the state.
Do you think that the 9 campuses of the University of California (Berkeley, LA, SD, Davis, Santa Barbara, Irvine, Riverside, Santa Cruz and Merced) plus the med school at UCSF, the affiliated law school (Hastings) and the partnerships the system has with US Dept. of Energy Labs (like Lawrence Livermore) don't meet the demands for public doctoral-degree-granting institutions in our state?
And if they don't, would it be wrong to open more UC campuses instead of broadening the mission of the CSU campuses?
(05-24-2015 01:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote: I think they are changing that to make a couple of the state schools to be more attractive for realignment purposes. San Diego State and Fresno State. If they turn these two into the likes of California, UCLA, USC and Stanford? They could be PAC 12 potential. Cal.-Davis and Cal.-Poly can not make it since they both are far behind. It won't take much to turn San Diego State and Fresno State to be PAC 12 calibre.
I don't think the state would change the nature of the CA higher education system for the sake of collegiate conference realignment. If it was willing to do so to give SDSU room to grow, wouldn't it be easier to simply pay to upgrade UCSD to Division 1? Or to just add football to UCSB?
(05-23-2015 09:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: If some of you non-MAC fans go to the MAC board and look at the 'Most Ohio universities in jeopardy' thread, you'll find and good history of OSU's stranglehold on Ohio by perimeterpost. Long story short, then-governor Rutherford B. Hayes lobbied hard to create a new university to designate as the Ohio flagship as opposed to the Miami or OU (both of which were over half a century old by that point); he also pushed hard for the university to be located in Columbus (instead of Springfield/Urbana) and shift to being a comprehensive university as opposed to agricultural. A law passed in the early 20th century permitted only OSU to offer doctorate degrees, which all but guaranteed that OSU would be the dominant force in Ohio higher education.
Cal led the UC System to do the same in CA. Cal State schools are not legally allowed to offer doctoral degrees. Both schools put their prestige above the welfare of the state.
Sorry to hear that, although I would venture to guess that California is not as bad as Ohio when it comes to sports. Academically I can imagine that they're a pain in the ass since they have to maintain their prestige in Berkeley especially.
The Ohio doctorate law was repealed (or expired, I'm not sure) in the 50's when the population so big that they had to lift the cap because demand was so high; by that point they were well established as the most powerful university in the state. It's strange considering that OSU's president at the time of its original passage was Miami's president for eight years.
With the higher ed bubble escalating, you can bet the farm that everyone else but OSU will be on the cutting block. Miami is safe since only 8% of our funding comes from the state, UC is in a similar position as well. OU should be alright since they're the only major college in southern Ohio, but smaller schools (Shawnee State, Central State) and schools that are located in the same region (Toledo-BGSU, Kent-Akron-Youngstown-Cleveland State) will be at risk.
The California law is still in place. When the legislature looked to allow the Cal States to offer Phd's in applied sciences the UC's, led by Berkeley, launched a massive lobbying effort to block it. The compromise was the Cal States were allowed to offer a Phd in Education because Education doctorates make no money and the UC's won't lose potential donors. Every other PHd is a joint degree program where the degree is conferred by the UC's.
Keep in mind the Central Valley is one of the poorer areas of the country and has multiple Cal States but only recently got a UC. One example of how this hurts the valley, the Central Valley sits atop one of the largest oil fields in the world but no UC offers a doctoral degree in PetroChemical Enginneering to research how to safely extract it. Ca has a big logging industry but again no big city liberal UC offers a doctoral degree in forestry management. Fresno had one of the first student led wineries and has been a leader in viticulture but Davis would never consider offering a joint PHd from Fresno.
The UC's make Ohio State look like the kindly uncle next door. They lead the charge that Fresno and SDSU aren't at the academic level to be in the PAC-12 knowing full well it's their lobbying efforts that make it so. The have their foot on Fresno's and SDSU's neck and fully intend to keep it there. Our only hope is the Big 12 in ideally both an academic and athletic partnership.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2015 06:17 PM by Sactowndog.)
(05-23-2015 09:25 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: If some of you non-MAC fans go to the MAC board and look at the 'Most Ohio universities in jeopardy' thread, you'll find and good history of OSU's stranglehold on Ohio by perimeterpost. Long story short, then-governor Rutherford B. Hayes lobbied hard to create a new university to designate as the Ohio flagship as opposed to the Miami or OU (both of which were over half a century old by that point); he also pushed hard for the university to be located in Columbus (instead of Springfield/Urbana) and shift to being a comprehensive university as opposed to agricultural. A law passed in the early 20th century permitted only OSU to offer doctorate degrees, which all but guaranteed that OSU would be the dominant force in Ohio higher education.
Cal led the UC System to do the same in CA. Cal State schools are not legally allowed to offer doctoral degrees. Both schools put their prestige above the welfare of the state.
Sorry to hear that, although I would venture to guess that California is not as bad as Ohio when it comes to sports. Academically I can imagine that they're a pain in the ass since they have to maintain their prestige in Berkeley especially.
The Ohio doctorate law was repealed (or expired, I'm not sure) in the 50's when the population so big that they had to lift the cap because demand was so high; by that point they were well established as the most powerful university in the state. It's strange considering that OSU's president at the time of its original passage was Miami's president for eight years.
With the higher ed bubble escalating, you can bet the farm that everyone else but OSU will be on the cutting block. Miami is safe since only 8% of our funding comes from the state, UC is in a similar position as well. OU should be alright since they're the only major college in southern Ohio, but smaller schools (Shawnee State, Central State) and schools that are located in the same region (Toledo-BGSU, Kent-Akron-Youngstown-Cleveland State) will be at risk.
The California law is still in place. When the legislature looked to allow the Cal States to offer Phd's in applied sciences the UC's, led by Berkeley, launched a massive lobbying effort to block it. The compromise was the Cal States were allowed to offer a Phd in Education because Education doctorates make no money and the UC's won't lose potential donors. Every other PHd is a joint degree program where the degree is conferred by the UC's.
Keep in mind the Central Valley is one of the poorer areas of the country and has multiple Cal States but only recently got a UC. One example of how this hurts the valley, the Central Valley sits atop one of the largest oil fields in the world but no UC offers a doctoral degree in PetroChemical Enginneering to research how to safely extract it. Ca has a big logging industry but again no big city liberal UC offers a doctoral degree in forestry management. Fresno had one of the first student led wineries and has been a leader in viticulture but Davis would never consider offering a joint PHd from Fresno.
The UC's make Ohio State look like the kindly uncle next door. They lead the charge that Fresno and SDSU aren't at the academic level to be in the PAC-12 knowing full well it's their lobbying efforts that make it so. The have their foot on Fresno's and SDSU's neck and fully intend to keep it there. Our only hope is the Big 12 in ideally both an academic and athletic partnership.
Not sure you can call it worse considering OSU was one school dictating to an entire state and UC is an entire system dictating to an entire state.
Both suck for the other schools but a single school should not be able to mimic the power of an entire system of the most powerful schools in a larger state.
If OSU was able to handle all the doctorate degrees it would never have allowed other schools to offer them. Unfortunately for you the higher number of schools making up the UC system makes it possible for them to continue their efforts.
I didn't vote in the poll since I'm a Rutgers fan and therefore a new B1G fan but I'll say long before RU joined the B1G, I could not stand Wisconsin. Their fans are The. Worst. Repeat. The. Worst.