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AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
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TIGERCITY Online
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Post: #1
AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/col.../27624809/

Notre Dame's athletic director and Northwestern's president emeritus said Tuesday that if college athletes ultimately are ruled to be employees of their respective schools, they foresee their universities withdrawing from the current setup of big-time sports.

Their comments come as the full National Labor Relations Board continues to deliberate about an effort to unionize scholarship football players at Northwestern....

..."Notre Dame's just not prepared to participate in any model where the athlete isn't a student first and foremost — that's the hallmark for us," Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick told USA TODAY Sports after a Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics meeting here during which he appeared as a panelist. "If the entire model were to move toward athletes as employees, we'd head in a different direction. Our president has been clear about that. I'm not articulating a unique position."

Northwestern president emeritus Henry Bienen, a member of the Knight Commission, indicated during the meeting that he hopes Northwestern will leave the current form of big-time college sports if athletes are determined to be employees. The session was aimed at examining the implications of the Ed O'Bannon anti-trust lawsuit and related issues, as well as alternative regulatory systems for college sports. Afterward, in remarks he prefaced by saying he does not speak for the university, Bienen elaborated....

... Because of Northwestern's challenge, the ballots were impounded by the NLRB and presumably have not been counted.

Even if the full NLRB upholds Ohr's ruling, there likely would be many steps before a final resolution.

Because of that, Southern Methodist President Gerald Turner — a Knight Commission co-chair — said his school has made no determination of the course it would take if athletes are found to be employees.

"It's too quick to say whether we wouldn't play anymore or anything like that," he said, adding that his school also would have to weigh the implications of Texas being a right-to-work state. "That would only occur after a very long review of the implications in both directions. … I think (if athletes were deemed employees), you would see the private schools in (the) FBS would be having a meeting together pretty quickly to try to talk through what the implications of it would be. But we are optimistic that we won't have to do that."
05-20-2015 10:34 AM
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snowtiger Offline
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
Nothing like strategizing ahead.
05-20-2015 10:40 AM
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
D3 is open for them if they want.
05-20-2015 11:04 AM
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WaywardMemphian Offline
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
If they are considered employees, wouldn't their scholarships be deemed taxable compensation and/or a contract. What if the schools that play ball put in penalties for not completing the full term of contract that is 4 years. I see it forcing the NFL and NBA to field legit development leagues like minor league baseball and take kids straight out of high school again. Would this also mean MLB would have to wait till the eligibility of an athelte runs out if they do not ink them out of high school.

It's the old " be carefully what you ask for " saying at play.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2015 11:52 AM by WaywardMemphian.)
05-20-2015 11:50 AM
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umbluegray Offline
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
I have to respect ND for that statement.

Student athletes should not be considered employees of the school. That's absurd.
05-20-2015 11:51 AM
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boss man Offline
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
To Wayward's point, you can bet the IRS is observing this scenario with interest.

The laws of unintended consequences abound.
05-20-2015 12:15 PM
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bluebacker Away
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
(05-20-2015 11:51 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I have to respect ND for that statement.

Student athletes should not be considered employees of the school. That's absurd.

Agree. Maybe this will put the brakes on some of the bs.
05-20-2015 12:23 PM
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Brother Bluto Offline
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
(05-20-2015 12:23 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(05-20-2015 11:51 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I have to respect ND for that statement.

Student athletes should not be considered employees of the school. That's absurd.

Agree. Maybe this will put the brakes on some of the bs.

I doubt it. That train left the station a long time ago. Our collective obsession with cable TV has come back on us.
05-20-2015 12:51 PM
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Sundanceuiuc Away
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
Quote:However, contrary to its literal meaning, the NCAA’s ulterior purpose for creating the term student athlete was to disguise and prevent any thought that the athlete and university shared an employment relationship. Ultimately, the term student athlete was crafted as a shield to protect the NCAA from potential workers’ compensation claims. This of course was a warranted and legitimate business strategy, and without it college athletics could not have evolved into its modern day form. Yet because of the massive influx of television and marketing dollars over the last two decades, the burden has shifted back on the NCAA to prove that student athletes should not be classified as employees under modern labor law.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/...-athletes/

----

I'm fine with not calling them employees, but the compensation probably needs to go up (as Bluto notes, the cable monster has put all this cash on the table).

Things to consider:
- Full cost of attendance
- Perhaps stretching the number of years you can be in school (pay 4, attend 6) allowing players to take lower credit numbers in their in season (9?) and then finish real, skill majors (pre-med, engineering, architecture, etc) that are currently extremely tough to finish when doing the full time job of being a D1 athlete. If they're going professional in something other than sports, let's get them real majors and real degrees.
- Workers comp type benefits as necessary.
- Stipends to prevent (lessen?) under the table money (ha ha ha, I know funny).
- Keep schollie if hurt.

It's hard for student athletes to take advantage of their education opportunities. It makes sense to put a little money in their pockets and help them actually capitalize on their opportunity.

Having said all this, the 'employee' term can probably be circumvented if the NCAA and its member institutions pass some comprehensive benefit reforms to make the labor more happy.

---

Bigger issue is where does this money come from when the cable bubble bursts? A la carte channels will drastically hurt programming fees I am guessing. We're a decade from that becoming a major thing I think...
05-20-2015 01:04 PM
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biguofmfan Offline
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Post: #10
RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
(05-20-2015 11:51 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I have to respect ND for that statement.

Student athletes should not be considered employees of the school. That's absurd.

IMO you are fundamentally right. Student-athletes should never be employees. However, the concept of amateurism has been rejected by the universities themselves in their interest to make money, and thus, they now treat their student-athletes more like employees. If treated like employees (and don't we all agree that the 'control' element is satisfied here?), why shouldn't student-athletes move to protect their own interests as employees?

Quote:"Notre Dame's just not prepared to participate in any model where the athlete isn't a student first and foremost — that's the hallmark for us," Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick told USA TODAY Sports

Not only do I not respect Swarbrick's statement here, I find it disgusting and incredibly disingenuous. If such a "hallmark", college athletics wouldn't be so far removed from what it was 30-40 years ago. Universities are the ones responsible for developing, over the course of decades, the employment relationship that now exists. Swarbrick and his peers can only blame their own greed for the model they have created.

Again, it has been universities that have developed this model where they profit immensely from their strict control over student-athletes, yet they now want to claim no responsibility for such and won't participate any longer if they don't get their way. We have allowed this to get way out of control.
05-20-2015 01:16 PM
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fsquid Online
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Post: #11
RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
If US colleges want to get into the entertainment business (which they are now), then time to pay up. Also, any scholarship money that goes to room and board is supposed to be taxable. But, I'm assuming the IRS is so understaffed they haven't thought of that.
05-20-2015 01:20 PM
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Tygrys Offline
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Post: #12
RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
(05-20-2015 11:50 AM)WaywardMemphian Wrote:  If they are considered employees, wouldn't their scholarships be deemed taxable compensation and/or a contract. What if the schools that play ball put in penalties for not completing the full term of contract that is 4 years. I see it forcing the NFL and NBA to field legit development leagues like minor league baseball and take kids straight out of high school again. Would this also mean MLB would have to wait till the eligibility of an athelte runs out if they do not ink them out of high school.

It's the old " be carefully what you ask for " saying at play.

Yes, their scholarships would become taxable, but as Squid pointed out, some of it already is probably taxable but not a point of emphasis for the IRS... The IRS could also change their rule at any given point or just add a clause to exclude college athletes.
05-20-2015 02:12 PM
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dan o Offline
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Post: #13
RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
The concept of "student athletes" has long since become laughable.
05-20-2015 06:15 PM
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fsquid Online
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Re: RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
(05-20-2015 06:15 PM)dan o Wrote:  The concept of "student athletes" has long since become laughable.

It was made up specifically for this purpose
05-20-2015 08:32 PM
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ChapelHillTiger Offline
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
[Respect ND and Northwestern.



quote='Brother Bluto' pid='12069114' dateline='1432144307']
(05-20-2015 12:23 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  
(05-20-2015 11:51 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  I have to respect ND for that statement.

Student athletes should not be considered employees of the school. That's absurd.

Agree. Maybe this will put the brakes on some of the bs.

I doubt it. That train left the station a long time ago. Our collective obsession with cable TV has come back on us.
[/quote]
05-20-2015 08:36 PM
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
First, I think we have some time before this is resolved --- I suspect his thing is going to the Supreme Court.

Second, check out just how many states whose Highest Paid public employee is a sports coach. I mean how does Calipari get paid 8 million? Answer - don't pay the help and all that extra money has to go somewhere.

Third, don't be deluded, this ain't the beginning of end of college sports as we know it IMO. That may be bad or good --- but there will be something worked out - after it all. Why would big time players, big time programs, and big time money want to even risk the destruction of big time, big money, college sports? Just my opinion -- trolls.
05-20-2015 09:31 PM
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
(05-20-2015 09:31 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  First, I think we have some time before this is resolved --- I suspect his thing is going to the Supreme Court.

Second, check out just how many states whose Highest Paid public employee is a sports coach. I mean how does Calipari get paid 8 million? Answer - don't pay the help and all that extra money has to go somewhere.

Third, don't be deluded, this ain't the beginning of end of college sports as we know it IMO. That may be bad or good --- but there will be something worked out - after it all. Why would big time players, big time programs, and big time money want to even risk the destruction of big time, big money, college sports? Just my opinion -- trolls.

the school/state doesn't pay all that money. They pay very little. So not paying the coaches ridiculous salaries (which should change anyway) would not free up any state money to pay the students.
05-21-2015 07:47 AM
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
If this is not a business, why this marketing campaign?

http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbm...EM_ID=5200
05-21-2015 07:50 AM
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TIGERBUDDY Offline
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
(05-20-2015 06:15 PM)dan o Wrote:  The concept of "student athletes" has long since become laughable.

Not in the IVY league.
05-21-2015 08:25 AM
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RE: AD: If athletes are considered employees, Notre Dame will seek new model
(05-21-2015 07:47 AM)MemTigerFan Wrote:  
(05-20-2015 09:31 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  First, I think we have some time before this is resolved --- I suspect his thing is going to the Supreme Court.

Second, check out just how many states whose Highest Paid public employee is a sports coach. I mean how does Calipari get paid 8 million? Answer - don't pay the help and all that extra money has to go somewhere.

Third, don't be deluded, this ain't the beginning of end of college sports as we know it IMO. That may be bad or good --- but there will be something worked out - after it all. Why would big time players, big time programs, and big time money want to even risk the destruction of big time, big money, college sports? Just my opinion -- trolls.

the school/state doesn't pay all that money. They pay very little. So not paying the coaches ridiculous salaries (which should change anyway) would not free up any state money to pay the students.

I donlt think it matters how much the state pays --- it's the money that's out there that matters and drives these salaries. The fact that all of that TV money, booster money, gate money, bowl money can't go to the players doesn't mean that the desire to influence the game in order to get some of those millions goes away. So when I say 'that money has to go somewhere' - it expresses itself in big coaches salaries and gold plated lockers. Everybody is making a boat-load of money--the schools, the coaches, the TV networks--except for the players themselves --
05-21-2015 09:00 AM
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