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OT: Major NFL rule change
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-20-2015 03:15 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(05-20-2015 03:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-20-2015 02:24 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(05-20-2015 02:12 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think one thing that someone brought up earlier on here- that will really be the case- is penalties after TD's. A celebration penalty now for 15 yards makes things a 48 yard field goal- which is hardly automatic at all. Kickers made 306-426 field goals last year on field goals 40 yards or further(so that would be a kick with just about any penalty). Also only 94-154 on 50 yard field goals(that would be close to a kick with a 15 yard penalty). So penalties with extra points will be very interesting.....

This is very true. But it will depend on how hard teams go after the XP. If they sit back like the do now and the kicker doesn't have to worry about a block, it is more likely to go in. So we shall see if it changes the behavior of the defense in that situation. If defenses make it a habit to try and block it, it will get very interesting. If they don't, then I don't.

Another thing to watch. On an XP from the 15, with little chance to fake it compared to say a 4th and short, you might see defenses rush and go for the block all out in ways you don't see on normal field goals due to safeties watching for the fake.

That's part of the idea behind the change, isn't it? Giving the non-scoring team reason to play defense on the PAT kick.

Agreed that things will get interesting if there is a penalty on the scoring team that is enforced on the PAT try, but if that happens more than once or twice this year, the No Fun League will probably change the rule and make it so that all penalties on TDs are enforced on the kickoff.

I don't know why the NFL would do that change. I mean, what greater penalty is there than one that could take a point off the board? I think that would stop 90% of celebration penalties cold.

There would be significant backlash if an NFL team missed a conversion because a showboating referee throws a flag for some relatively minor celebration like pumping a fist or high-fiving teammates.
05-20-2015 03:22 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
Most penalties on a TD are allowed to be enforced on the kickoff. I think most teams would still take that option, as the field position change is better than the slim chances it affects the XP (unless it is an end of game situation of course).
05-20-2015 03:49 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #23
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-20-2015 03:49 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Most penalties on a TD are allowed to be enforced on the kickoff. I think most teams would still take that option, as the field position change is better than the slim chances it affects the XP (unless it is an end of game situation of course).

I don't know. I think if it's a celebration penalty- a lot of teams will take the penalty if the opposing kicker isn't that good. A 48 yard field goal isn't automatic by any stretch of the imagination, even for good kickers. Especially in certain stadiums later in the season.
05-20-2015 04:34 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
Yeah but is it the chance of them missing for one one point better then having them kick off from the 20 and getting great field position to try and score a TD or field goal? Kicking from the 20
Nearly guarantees a starting field position at the 40 or better.
05-20-2015 07:05 PM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
I love the new rule. NFL kickers make 90%-93% from the new distance. That's the way it should be. The extra point is no longer irrelevant.
05-20-2015 07:15 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #26
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-20-2015 07:05 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Yeah but is it the chance of them missing for one one point better then having them kick off from the 20 and getting great field position to try and score a TD or field goal? Kicking from the 20
Nearly guarantees a starting field position at the 40 or better.

I know what you're talking about- but how many times have you seen a game that a missed extra point comes back to bite a team in the butt?
05-20-2015 07:20 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
Rather than moving the ball back, I think X-tra point attempt line ups should be at the 2 yard line and as close to the sideline as possible, that would test the kicker's ability to hit from a drastic angle.
05-20-2015 07:41 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-20-2015 07:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(05-20-2015 07:05 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Yeah but is it the chance of them missing for one one point better then having them kick off from the 20 and getting great field position to try and score a TD or field goal? Kicking from the 20
Nearly guarantees a starting field position at the 40 or better.

I know what you're talking about- but how many times have you seen a game that a missed extra point comes back to bite a team in the butt?

No argument there. I just think taking the ball "at the 40" is more appealing to most coaches.
05-20-2015 10:28 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #29
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-20-2015 07:41 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Rather than moving the ball back, I think X-tra point attempt line ups should be at the 2 yard line and as close to the sideline as possible, that would test the kicker's ability to hit from a drastic angle.

Enough with the rugby suggestions. I would have gone to the 20, or maybe... MAYBE... it has to be along the hash marks (either side, but not directly middle). Not that it would make a huge difference. But nobody will pass on a greater than 90% play unless its a blizzard game or an injury to the place kicker. The idea of encouraging more two pointers is comical. Any increases in 2-pt attempts will amount to a fraction of a percent if that, due to extreme weather or injuries to kickers.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 06:35 AM by RUScarlets.)
05-21-2015 06:33 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
Thinking this will increase the number of 2 point attempts is ludicrous. It was difficult enough on the goal line, since over 50% of all 2 pt. attempts failed miserably. Moving it to back will end all thoughts of 2 point conversions, except for the truly desperate - and the truly gifted against the totally inept.
05-21-2015 09:20 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #31
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-21-2015 09:20 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Thinking this will increase the number of 2 point attempts is ludicrous. It was difficult enough on the goal line, since over 50% of all 2 pt. attempts failed miserably. Moving it to back will end all thoughts of 2 point conversions, except for the truly desperate - and the truly gifted against the totally inept.

2 pt conversions remain where they've always been. It's the kicked extra point that gets moved back to the 15- what the XP was in the 1st 2 weeks of the preseason last year.
05-21-2015 09:25 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #32
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-20-2015 09:09 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Also imagine the added impact of celebration or other post-play fouls.

Used to be you'd just enforce the yardage on the kickoff. Now you can do that, or force either a 2-point attempt from the 17 or a 47/48-yard extra point.

I think that was the real intent of this rule. However, they did not want to get crushed in the media for being the "No Fun League," so they couched it in this way.
05-21-2015 10:10 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #33
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
The NFL is functioning fine as it is, excessively labeled -gate and domestic abuse scandals notwithstanding. Why mess with success? You'll definitely see more coaches going for 2 in late game situations with this but it shouldn't be that way.

What they should have done is proposed an extra point of various point levels from the 25, 30, 35 and even 40 yard lines. This would be likened to adding the 3-point shot in the NBA game, it changes the game some but not drastically and facilitates comebacks like the 3-point shot. What they've done is the equivalent of moving the free throw shot to the 3-point line or moving the fences back 50-100 feet in baseball.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 10:30 AM by C2__.)
05-21-2015 10:28 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #34
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
The kicking game should not be that big a factor, even though it is called "football". You start adding 3 point play add-ons, and you can argue that kicker would be a top 2-3 position. That's lunacy.
05-21-2015 10:51 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #35
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
Why? Like I said, if you're going to change the XP process, don't change the traditional methods of scoring but just make small additions. Doing what I suggested is just like the 3-point shot, which has changed basketball but not drastically. The NBA game is still played more or less as it was 50 years ago.
05-21-2015 11:05 AM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #36
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
The NFL should have just narrowed the Goal Post if they wanted to make the Extra Point more "Difficult"...no real reason to push back the Extra Point Kick...
05-21-2015 12:23 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #37
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-21-2015 09:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(05-21-2015 09:20 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Thinking this will increase the number of 2 point attempts is ludicrous. It was difficult enough on the goal line, since over 50% of all 2 pt. attempts failed miserably. Moving it to back will end all thoughts of 2 point conversions, except for the truly desperate - and the truly gifted against the totally inept.
2 pt conversions remain where they've always been. It's the kicked extra point that gets moved back to the 15- what the XP was in the 1st 2 weeks of the preseason last year.
IMO if they're going to move the XP try back, it should be the same whether the try is for 1 or 2. Why should they get 1 point for a try at the 15 yard line, and 2 for a try under 3 yards? It doesn't make sense to me.

But then again, I use something called common sense, which is a very uncommon commodity in humanity.
05-21-2015 12:49 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #38
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
That's what I'm saying. A move like this is like making the pitcher pitch from second base or something.
05-21-2015 01:07 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #39
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-21-2015 12:49 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  IMO if they're going to move the XP try back, it should be the same whether the try is for 1 or 2. Why should they get 1 point for a try at the 15 yard line, and 2 for a try under 3 yards? It doesn't make sense to me.

But then again, I use something called common sense, which is a very uncommon commodity in humanity.

In basketball you get 1 point if you shoot and hit a free throw from 15 feet, but two points if you make a dunk from 2 feet away. For that matter in football you get 6 points if you score a touchdown from the 2 yard line, but only 3 if you opt for a field goal and kick it from the 9. That is no different. I am not sure you want to use "common sense" to describe your line of reasoning, as it does not match the other rules of the sport.

Plus if you go for two from the 15 (via a fake, or a broken play), you still get two points.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 02:19 PM by adcorbett.)
05-21-2015 02:19 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #40
RE: OT: Major NFL rule change
(05-21-2015 09:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(05-21-2015 09:20 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Thinking this will increase the number of 2 point attempts is ludicrous. It was difficult enough on the goal line, since over 50% of all 2 pt. attempts failed miserably. Moving it to back will end all thoughts of 2 point conversions, except for the truly desperate - and the truly gifted against the totally inept.

2 pt conversions remain where they've always been. It's the kicked extra point that gets moved back to the 15- what the XP was in the 1st 2 weeks of the preseason last year.

The Eagles proposed that the line of scrimmage for 2-point PAT attempts be moved to the 1-yard line. That didn't pass, unfortunately. Moving those plays to the 1 would tempt coaches to go for 2 much more often.
05-21-2015 03:02 PM
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