(05-20-2015 10:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The 6 bids was done on a lot of the recruiting done while we were still in the original Big East. St John's, Providence, Villanova, and Georgetown definitely- all 4 teams were built on recruiting from the old Big East.. It's going to take 3-4 years to see what the impacts of all the moves and FS1 have. Will the recruiting be able to keep up? Will we be able to stop all the transfers from leaving(like what's inexplicably happened up at PC) Those are questions we don't have answers for yet, and won't for a few years.

So you can blast us on recruiting but we can't take credit for the positives. Gotcha. Keep moving those goal posts.

Redman, the positives were done because of life before the new Big East. That's not moving the goalposts. St John's was a senior laden team. When did they get those seniors? 4 years ago when St John's was in the 16 team Big East. That's the thing. Let's see how St John's and others are when their team make up is all done after the split happened.

(05-20-2015 11:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Redman, the positives were done because of life before the new Big East. That's not moving the goalposts. St John's was a senior laden team. When did they get those seniors? 4 years ago when St John's was in the 16 team Big East. That's the thing. Let's see how St John's and others are when their team make up is all done after the split happened.

Okay and Mullin has put together a capable squad in a few weeks. How about Marquettes recruiting?

(05-20-2015 11:05 AM)BigBeast Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 11:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Redman, the positives were done because of life before the new Big East. That's not moving the goalposts. St John's was a senior laden team. When did they get those seniors? 4 years ago when St John's was in the 16 team Big East. That's the thing. Let's see how St John's and others are when their team make up is all done after the split happened.

Okay and Mullin has put together a capable squad in a few weeks. How about Marquettes recruiting?

Mullin has put together a squad that will be lucky to finish .500- they'll be picked to finish 7th or 8th. Capable squad ok- but NCAA tourney contender- no way.

Marquette is recruiting great- but lets see if Ellensen is more than just a 1 and done(which most top 5 guys are).

I don't think the Big East will see any unusual drop in recruiting. They're a good basketball league that is in key basketball-friendly markets. The only way recruiting will drop is if the programs themselves stop winning. This is a six-bid conference, not the MAAC.

(05-20-2015 11:15 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I don't think the Big East will see any unusual drop in recruiting. They're a good basketball league that is in key basketball-friendly markets. The only way recruiting will drop is if the programs themselves stop winning. This is a six-bid conference, not the MAAC.

Well this year did drop dramatically in recruiting from 13 to 5 top 100 recruits. Next year will be really interesting to see if that's just a 1 year drop or a bigger trend. Of the ESPN top 60 for 2016- Big East has only 1 of the 16 committed players so far. I think it's rather naïve to think that the opposing coaches from outside conferences aren't using FS1 against the Big East.

(05-20-2015 11:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 11:15 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I don't think the Big East will see any unusual drop in recruiting. They're a good basketball league that is in key basketball-friendly markets. The only way recruiting will drop is if the programs themselves stop winning. This is a six-bid conference, not the MAAC.

Well this year did drop dramatically in recruiting from 13 to 5 top 100 recruits. Next year will be really interesting to see if that's just a 1 year drop or a bigger trend. Of the ESPN top 60 for 2016- Big East has only 1 of the 16 committed players so far. I think it's rather naïve to think that the opposing coaches from outside conferences aren't using FS1 against the Big East.

ESPN has a vested interest in keeping what THEY consider to be high-value recruits away from the Big East. That's why you can't use ESPN rating services when talking about the Big East.

Also, those 13 Top 100 guys are about to be sophomores. They will improve the league for the next 2-3 years.

(05-20-2015 11:37 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 11:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 11:15 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  I don't think the Big East will see any unusual drop in recruiting. They're a good basketball league that is in key basketball-friendly markets. The only way recruiting will drop is if the programs themselves stop winning. This is a six-bid conference, not the MAAC.

Well this year did drop dramatically in recruiting from 13 to 5 top 100 recruits. Next year will be really interesting to see if that's just a 1 year drop or a bigger trend. Of the ESPN top 60 for 2016- Big East has only 1 of the 16 committed players so far. I think it's rather naïve to think that the opposing coaches from outside conferences aren't using FS1 against the Big East.

ESPN has a vested interest in keeping what THEY consider to be high-value recruits away from the Big East. That's why you can't use ESPN rating services when talking about the Big East.

Also, those 13 Top 100 guys are about to be sophomores. They will improve the league for the next 2-3 years.

Even using the other services- the most top 100 recruits is like 7 this year.

Also, at least 1 of those top 100 guys are already gone from last year.

(05-20-2015 11:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Well this year did drop dramatically in recruiting from 13 to 5 top 100 recruits. Next year will be really interesting to see if that's just a 1 year drop or a bigger trend. Of the ESPN top 60 for 2016- Big East has only 1 of the 16 committed players so far. I think it's rather naïve to think that the opposing coaches from outside conferences aren't using FS1 against the Big East.

According to Scout they have 7 top 100 players, with 3 five star players, compared to 6 top 100 players, 1 five star player for the AAC

According to Rivals the Big East has 6 top 100 recruits with 1 five star (11). The American also has 6 top 100 players with 1 five star player (23).

According to ESPN they have the 5 top 100 players you mentioned, with 2 five star players, compared to 5 top 100 players for the American with 0 five star players.

Since the comparison is between the two conferences in terms of if the new Big East is struggling due to exposure and the split from the American schools, then the American is not doing any better.

(05-20-2015 12:47 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 11:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Well this year did drop dramatically in recruiting from 13 to 5 top 100 recruits. Next year will be really interesting to see if that's just a 1 year drop or a bigger trend. Of the ESPN top 60 for 2016- Big East has only 1 of the 16 committed players so far. I think it's rather naïve to think that the opposing coaches from outside conferences aren't using FS1 against the Big East.

According to Scout they have 7 top 100 players, with 3 five star players, compared to 6 top 100 players, 1 five star player for the AAC

According to Rivals the Big East has 6 top 100 recruits with 1 five star (11). The American also has 6 top 100 players with 1 five star player (23).

According to ESPN they have the 5 top 100 players you mentioned, with 2 five star players, compared to 5 top 100 players for the American with 0 five star players.

Since the comparison is between the two conferences in terms of if the new Big East is struggling due to exposure and the split from the American schools, then the American is not doing any better.

but what was that like even just last year? Last year Rivals- BE 14 AAC 3. So for them to be equal this year?
2 years ago it was 9 for BE 10 for the AAC.
3 years ago it was 8 for the BE 4 for the AAC.
4 years ago it was 11 for the BE 5 for the AAC.
So for BE teams- gone from 11 to 8 to 9 to 14 to down to 5- is alarming. The AAC has gone from 5 to 4 to 10 to 3 to 5 now- isn't as alarming because those teams haven't gotten the recruits a lot anyways.
BE 4 year average was 10.5 per year down to 5.
AAC 4 year average was 5.5 per year down to 5.

(05-20-2015 07:55 AM)BigBeast Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 06:55 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  The surprising TV $$$ deal the new big east received was definitely good for them at the time... However, the biggest knock out punch regret decision that will come to hunt them was separating themselves from football and of course, ESPN.

Away from ESPN and Football will overruled and further decrease the equity they built over the years for them and the big east name, they just don't know it.

So if we aligned with Tulane, Temple and ECU football we'd still be big time? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Is that why we make twice as much TV money and yet we have no football? Denial ain't just a river in Egypt pal.

That's funny and all except a random ECU football game is watched by more people than the Big East basketball championship

(05-20-2015 01:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  but what was that like even just last year? Last year Rivals- BE 14 AAC 3. So for them to be equal this year?
2 years ago it was 9 for BE 10 for the AAC.
3 years ago it was 8 for the BE 4 for the AAC.
4 years ago it was 11 for the BE 5 for the AAC.
So for BE teams- gone from 11 to 8 to 9 to 14 to down to 5- is alarming. The AAC has gone from 5 to 4 to 10 to 3 to 5 now- isn't as alarming because those teams haven't gotten the recruits a lot anyways.
BE 4 year average was 10.5 per year down to 5.
AAC 4 year average was 5.5 per year down to 5.

That doesn't matter though. IF the point is people are using FS1 against them (and having basically their own conference channel that is nationwide, not sure how that is used against them), then they should not be having the same results as a conference who has a full ESPN deal.

(05-20-2015 01:16 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 01:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  but what was that like even just last year? Last year Rivals- BE 14 AAC 3. So for them to be equal this year?
2 years ago it was 9 for BE 10 for the AAC.
3 years ago it was 8 for the BE 4 for the AAC.
4 years ago it was 11 for the BE 5 for the AAC.
So for BE teams- gone from 11 to 8 to 9 to 14 to down to 5- is alarming. The AAC has gone from 5 to 4 to 10 to 3 to 5 now- isn't as alarming because those teams haven't gotten the recruits a lot anyways.
BE 4 year average was 10.5 per year down to 5.
AAC 4 year average was 5.5 per year down to 5.

That doesn't matter though. IF the point is people are using FS1 against them (and having basically their own conference channel that is nationwide, not sure how that is used against them), then they should not be having the same results as a conference who has a full ESPN deal.

It does go against them though. Your own conference channel is normally used for tier 3 games. Maybe some tier 2. But the best games are on ESPN.

Real simple question for you. If the leagues were reversed- Big East on ESPN and AAC on FS1- what would you expect the ratings to be? How do you think the recruiting would be impacted for both?

And the results at least for this year are pretty damning. For Big East to go from 10.5 per year down to 6 is pretty alarming. AAC actually has gone up from 5.5 up to 6.(I had used 5 by mistake for both in my prior post).

You are acting like both groups were equal going into this. The Big East teams had 24 bids in the 5 years before. The AAC teams had 17 bids in the 5 years before. So they weren't. The fact that the leagues are close in recruiting now isn't good.

(05-20-2015 01:28 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Real simple question for you. If the leagues were reversed- Big East on ESPN and AAC on FS1- what would you expect the ratings to be? How do you think the recruiting would be impacted for both?

The BE ratings would probably be higher than the AAC current ratings are on ESPN (and higher than on ESPN), and the AAC ratings on FS1 would probably be lower. The Big East teams are a more familiar name. But the BE would have poorer distribution for their middle tier and lower tier games..

(05-20-2015 01:28 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And the results at least for this year are pretty damning. For Big East to go from 10.5 per year down to 6 is pretty alarming. AAC actually has gone up from 5.5 up to 6.(I had used 5 by mistake for both in my prior post).

You are acting like both groups were equal going into this. The Big East teams had 24 bids in the 5 years before. The AAC teams had 17 bids in the 5 years before. So they weren't. The fact that the leagues are close in recruiting now isn't good.

In other threads, you are the one who always says last year doesn't matter. I guess now it does? Anyway If being on FS1 is the reason, then it would only work if the ACC who supposedly has a better deal was now getting more than they were. If not, then it tends to show it is probably other factors. Namely could it be another conference stepped up. That would take a breakdown of every conference's performance the last few years to see if there are trends to find out. Also you are using one year to prove a trend, which does not work. For example if the ACC managed to pick up more, does that mean it is because the BE is on FS1, or recruits are excited to play in the AAC; for example. There is just not enough info to draw such a conclusion, much less based on only one year.


BTW, can we move this to one thread, so we don't have to keep switching back and forth to discuss the same thing?

I agree with you that there isn't enough data yet to draw conclusions. But I would say that a conference going from averaging over 10 top 100 recruits down to 6 the real first year after the split- is alarming.

The Big East will be fine. Not great, not bad - but just fine.

They have an identity, a TV contract, a multi-bid membership, and some good recruits coming in. I don't understand the panic right now.

They don't need to play the P5 game as they aren't in the football industry. You really can't compare the AAC and the Big East because they aren't designed to do the same thing.

"My apple tastes better than your orange!"

(05-20-2015 01:58 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The Big East will be fine. Not great, not bad - but just fine.

They have an identity, a TV contract, a multi-bid membership, and some good recruits coming in. I don't understand the panic right now.

They don't need to play the P5 game as they aren't in the football industry. You really can't compare the AAC and the Big East because they aren't designed to do the same thing.

"My apple tastes better than your orange!"

If this year was a 1 time blip in recruiting, than you are right. But, if this year is the start of a bigger trend, then there's problems.

Very happy with the Big East exposure.
The 10 Big East schools are very happy with the money.

Exposure:
Every game nationally televised. Last year, my cousins in California could watch Providence play almost every one of their games... vs Big East rivals of course, and vs every non-conf opponent like Albany, Binghamton, Navy, Brown (oops). What's not to like exposure wise...? ESPN had many of us buried on ESPN-3 and pissed on us regularly.

Recruiting:
Has been outstanding the last 3 years. Stever blowing smoke out of his ass again. Half the league has been recruited in the re-formulated Big East years.

Outlook:
- 6 NCAA bids last year.
- DePaul and St John's with great coaching changes.
- 5-stars arriving at Marquette, Villanova and Creighton.
- 5-star Kris Dunn National POY candidate returning to PC.
- 5-star Isaiah Whitehead returning to Seton Hall.
- Schools averaging 10,000 per game for the most part.
- Each school on the upswing.
- Madison Square Garden firmly in our corner.
- #2 RPI conference last year. #4 RPI 2 years ago.
- Winning record vs P5.
- FS1 ratings improving slowly but steadily... Stever cherry-picking numbers like "Monday 9pm timeslots in late February went down", while ignoring more games on Big Fox and a bunch of other factors...

I was able to catch at least a couple Butler games on FS1 if I wanted to, amongst others

(05-20-2015 02:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 01:58 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The Big East will be fine. Not great, not bad - but just fine.

They have an identity, a TV contract, a multi-bid membership, and some good recruits coming in. I don't understand the panic right now.

They don't need to play the P5 game as they aren't in the football industry. You really can't compare the AAC and the Big East because they aren't designed to do the same thing.

"My apple tastes better than your orange!"

If this year was a 1 time blip in recruiting, than you are right. But, if this year is the start of a bigger trend, then there's problems.

And what if the 6 bids is a trend? Oh wait, thats automatically a blip!