Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

(05-18-2015 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

You're not a lawyer and you don't understand the law.

(05-18-2015 04:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

You're not a lawyer and you don't understand the law.

Pretty much nailed it. In this case, this shooting will likely uncover other illegal activities that these gangs were involved in, and set up a RICO and a host of other charges which usually negate the stand your ground defense.

I don't really care for the wording of the stand your ground legislation in Florida, especially as it pertains to outside of your domicile, but this really has not much to do with it as far as I can tell.

(05-18-2015 04:05 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 04:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

You're not a lawyer and you don't understand the law.

Pretty much nailed it. In this case, this shooting will likely uncover other illegal activities that these gangs were involved in, and set up a RICO and a host of other charges which usually negate the stand your ground defense.

I don't really care for the wording of the stand your ground legislation in Florida, especially as it pertains to outside of your domicile, but this really has not much to do with it as far as I can tell.

Sons of Anarchy??? Haha. This sounds just like the show.

The Organized Criminal Organization Laws in Texas are broad. You could charge anyone detained there on multiple offenses--possession of a weapon, etc.

The fact is that Law Enforcement knew what was going down, had Officers at the scene in marked Vehicles, and the Bar didn't ban entry to the Perps.

(05-18-2015 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

Damn Mach.

I suppose the Palestinians were just "standing their ground" when they launched rockets (unprovoked) into Israel.

You can't posess a weapon with a leather jacket on? Using this scenario. I'm at twin peaks and I go up to order a dozen wings with Buffalo sauce. I have a Sons of Anarchy shirt on because I like the show. Bullets start flying. Why can't I blaze out of there like Antonio Banderas in Dedoerados if I felt my life was being threatened? That's the law. Tell me how I am wrong.

The only thing to order in Twin Peaks is a "damn fine cup of coffee."

(05-18-2015 04:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You can't posess a weapon with a leather jacket on? Using this scenario. I'm at twin peaks and I go up to order a dozen wings with Buffalo sauce. I have a Sons of Anarchy shirt on because I like the show. Bullets start flying. Why can't I blaze out of there like Antonio Banderas in Dedoerados if I felt my life was being threatened? That's the law. Tell me how I am wrong.

If you were truly sitting there just eating your meal, saw a threat to your life, then pulled your firearm, you probably would be fine under stand your ground legislation (dependent on specifics about bringing them into public spaces/etc). But I can guarantee you that if that occurred in a similar shootout, they'd be searching your phone, financials, criminal record, questioning witnesses, etc, etc to prove you have no connection to the gangs involved in the shootout.

It's not like police just show up and say 'Well, other people had guns, therefore he gets a pass' or whatever you're implying with this post. Especially in such a visible incident. Two known drug dealers in a bad area of town? Maybe the detectives don't fully cross their T's and dot their I's, but this sort of story?

(05-18-2015 04:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You can't posess a weapon with a leather jacket on? Using this scenario. I'm at twin peaks and I go up to order a dozen wings with Buffalo sauce. I have a Sons of Anarchy shirt on because I like the show. Bullets start flying. Why can't I blaze out of there like Antonio Banderas in Dedoerados if I felt my life was being threatened? That's the law. Tell me how I am wrong.

If you show up with the knowledge that a fight and shootout will occur between your group and another group, and you bring a gun, it's hard to argue self-defense.

(05-18-2015 05:00 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 04:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You can't posess a weapon with a leather jacket on? Using this scenario. I'm at twin peaks and I go up to order a dozen wings with Buffalo sauce. I have a Sons of Anarchy shirt on because I like the show. Bullets start flying. Why can't I blaze out of there like Antonio Banderas in Dedoerados if I felt my life was being threatened? That's the law. Tell me how I am wrong.

If you show up with the knowledge that a fight and shootout will occur between your group and another group, and you bring a gun, it's hard to argue self-defense.

In Texas you cannot legally take a firearm into an establishment serving/selling alcoholic beverages, even with a concealed permit.

In situations like this I always stop to ask myself, what would Raylan do?

(05-18-2015 04:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You can't posess a weapon with a leather jacket on? Using this scenario. I'm at twin peaks and I go up to order a dozen wings with Buffalo sauce. I have a Sons of Anarchy shirt on because I like the show. Bullets start flying. Why can't I blaze out of there like Antonio Banderas in Dedoerados if I felt my life was being threatened? That's the law. Tell me how I am wrong.

They would have Shot You for Impersonating a Biker !

No.

They would burn me or cut it off. They don't just straight go for the kill!

(05-19-2015 07:31 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  No.

They would burn me or cut it off. They don't just straight go for the kill!

Oh, Sorry, I didn't know You've already been through that before ! Must have been traumatic experience the first time.

(05-18-2015 04:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

You're not a lawyer and you don't understand the law.

It really isn't a bad question. If I am associated with a group that is under assault, should I not have the right to defend myself? Now in this case, there was premeditation as this fight has been brewing and was the expected outcome that day, but it is good food for thought.

(05-18-2015 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

Fail. Just fail.

(05-18-2015 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

You are making an excellent point. If any of these bikers had a carry concealed license, I can almost guarantee that they will attempt to use this defense.

(05-19-2015 11:19 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 03:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Unless they get the first guy. You got one arrest. Everybody was a good guy with a gun. No? Only way to stop a bad biker gang with a gun is to have a good biker gang with a bazooka.

You are making an excellent point. If any of these bikers had a carry concealed license, I can almost guarantee that they will attempt to use this defense.

1. Even with a Concealed Carry License you can't take a Firearm inside an establishment that sells/serves alcoholic beverages.

2. 90% of these Thugs can't hold a Concealed Carry License based upon their Criminal Records