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ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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Post: #41
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
How much leverage would the ACC have with ESPN if the schools got together and threatened to remove the GOR and either revoke or lower the exit fee? You figure ESPN would not want certain schools back in play for the other conferences to take.
(This post was last modified: 05-14-2015 02:57 PM by NJ2MDTerp.)
05-14-2015 02:54 PM
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Rabbit_in_Red Offline
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Post: #42
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
ACC Commissioner comes out, makes specific comments regarding an ACCN and all but confirms it's going to happen. This, however, does not fit the narrative people around here like to spew about how the ACC's going to implode so naturally they try and discredit it.

Face it. It's going to happen. The ACC's not going anywhere.
05-14-2015 03:17 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #43
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 02:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 01:48 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 01:30 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 12:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 12:00 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  But if it's not a loser, then why wouldn't they do it in order to "keep up with the Joneses"?
I never said that the ACC shouldn't. I just think that the benefits are ridiculously overstated.
So ... basically you're saying you think they should do it, but you're going to complain about it the entire way?

I guess that's like someone saying "well, I think we have to buy that Lamborghini in order to keep up with everyone else, but the benefits of it are overstated."
Reading very clearly isn't your strong point.
You resorting to a personal attack rather than a counter-argument confirms I was correct.
It's amazing. It seems like everybody who disagrees with you is resorting to personal attacks. I guess disagreement is personal with you.

And because you ignore people's arguments doesn't mean they aren't providing a counter argument. It just proves you're obtuse.
(This post was last modified: 05-14-2015 03:27 PM by bitcruncher.)
05-14-2015 03:27 PM
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Post: #44
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 01:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 12:51 PM)orangefan Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:59 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:56 AM)Dasville Wrote:  I don't think that is true.

What part?

Here's an ESPN article that comes very close to supporting my statement:
"The grant of rights coincides with the ACC's TV deal with ESPN through the 2026-27 season. That deal was worth $17 million per school per year, but sources told ESPN last year it is expected to increase to at least $20 million per school per year with the addition of Notre Dame."
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...presidents

I also remember reading a bunch of other articles saying $18 and something + either network or either "at least $2 million" or "over $2 million"

I would hunt them down, but I think that they're redundant given the article that I liked above.

Yes, the Sports Business Journal said it averaged $260 million a year, which comes to about $18 million a year after you factor in Notre Dame. And its been said the ACC would get $2 million a year if they didn't get a network. I have my doubts about the latter as I don't understand why ESPN would pay again for something they already own the rights to, but several articles have stated that.

I do recall that from articles at the time. My guess is that the deal is to try to create more value from a new network than from using the games on existing platforms and to split the benefit between the conference and ESPN.

IMO, ESPN's idea is that ESPN wants to reserve the option of possibly using that content to enhance the value of their internet-only services like WatchESPN, rather than starting another conference network. To make sure they have that option, they told the ACC they'll pay for the content whether they use it on a conference network or on something else.

Clearly that's the idea and that's why having a network would generate more for the ACC. The real question is why they would pay if they didn't do it.
05-14-2015 04:16 PM
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Post: #45
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 01:13 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 01:06 PM)Dasville Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:59 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:56 AM)Dasville Wrote:  I don't think that is true.

What part?

Here's an ESPN article that comes very close to supporting my statement:
"The grant of rights coincides with the ACC's TV deal with ESPN through the 2026-27 season. That deal was worth $17 million per school per year, but sources told ESPN last year it is expected to increase to at least $20 million per school per year with the addition of Notre Dame."
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...presidents

I also remember reading a bunch of other articles saying $18 and something + either network or either "at least $2 million" or "over $2 million"

I would hunt them down, but I think that they're redundant given the article that I liked above.

Yes, the Sports Business Journal said it averaged $260 million a year, which comes to about $18 million a year after you factor in Notre Dame. And its been said the ACC would get $2 million a year if they didn't get a network. I have my doubts about the latter as I don't understand why ESPN would pay again for something they already own the rights to, but several articles have stated that.

ESPN only follows contracts. Why would they pay the ACC an additional $2 million if it wasn't in the contract? That seems random. ESPN is not in the business of giving "propers". Chuck Neinas is fantastic at his job but it is about the here and now. He gave the Big 12 an option......not a solution.
Bullet: The contract was being renegotiated upward because of a material change in conference membership and an arbitration clause that the league had a right to invoke. There's no reason why the payment structure couldn't change during the renegotiation. In other words, but for that clause, the ACC may have been able to secure a guaranteed $21-22 million, but the conference opted for a guaranteed ~$20-21 million, with a chance for more (the values I just gave are purely for explanatory purposes).

Das: ESPN wouldn't pay $2 million for the heck of it, but my understanding is that it is in the contract. I've read multiple articles that mention it and I don't see why it's not something that could be included as a contractual term.

Anyone interested: Here's an excerpt from HokieMark's site:
"2) It sounds like the ACC decision-makers want to make sure ACC Network profits paid to the ACC would be more than the $2 million per year bump for not doing one. This is just due diligence."
http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2015/0...22615.html

Reach out to him and he might tell you the source that he used.

I don't recall the network info coming out at the time Notre Dame was added. Maybe it did, but I don't recall it at that time. In any event, it wasn't when they bumped the contract to $17 million/school with Pitt and SU. With Notre Dame they bumped it up over $18 million per school for a guarantee of 2.5 games a year, when they were already normally getting 1 or 2 without any guarantees. So $38 million (14 X 18-17 + 14X2) seems like a lot for that.

It certainly could be part of a deal, but it still doesn't make sense.
Then again, maybe they pay $2 million total if they don't do it. That could be the deal and it could have been misinterpreted. That could be to compensate the ACC for any studies they have done, kind of a breakup fee. But $28 million would be awfully high for that.

Now that 2 million per school has been reported by several very reliable sources, but even reliable ones sometimes make mistakes. So I reserve the right to remain skeptical that the deal is as reported.
05-14-2015 04:34 PM
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Post: #46
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
Its probably a moot point anyway. ESPN will find a way to make the network work. Basketball fills more air time than football and ACC basketball is a valuable commodity. The 3 biggest money makers even in the football crazy SEC for Tier 3 were Kentucky, Florida and Arkansas. I just wouldn't expect it to start up quickly. ESPN just renewed most of their contracts and the mouse is a powerful ally when trying to get coverage. Without the extra weight of the mouse, it might take a while like the BTN and LHN did to get coverage.
05-14-2015 05:49 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #47
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 04:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 01:13 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 01:06 PM)Dasville Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:59 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  What part?

Here's an ESPN article that comes very close to supporting my statement:
"The grant of rights coincides with the ACC's TV deal with ESPN through the 2026-27 season. That deal was worth $17 million per school per year, but sources told ESPN last year it is expected to increase to at least $20 million per school per year with the addition of Notre Dame."
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...presidents

I also remember reading a bunch of other articles saying $18 and something + either network or either "at least $2 million" or "over $2 million"

I would hunt them down, but I think that they're redundant given the article that I liked above.

Yes, the Sports Business Journal said it averaged $260 million a year, which comes to about $18 million a year after you factor in Notre Dame. And its been said the ACC would get $2 million a year if they didn't get a network. I have my doubts about the latter as I don't understand why ESPN would pay again for something they already own the rights to, but several articles have stated that.

ESPN only follows contracts. Why would they pay the ACC an additional $2 million if it wasn't in the contract? That seems random. ESPN is not in the business of giving "propers". Chuck Neinas is fantastic at his job but it is about the here and now. He gave the Big 12 an option......not a solution.
Bullet: The contract was being renegotiated upward because of a material change in conference membership and an arbitration clause that the league had a right to invoke. There's no reason why the payment structure couldn't change during the renegotiation. In other words, but for that clause, the ACC may have been able to secure a guaranteed $21-22 million, but the conference opted for a guaranteed ~$20-21 million, with a chance for more (the values I just gave are purely for explanatory purposes).

Das: ESPN wouldn't pay $2 million for the heck of it, but my understanding is that it is in the contract. I've read multiple articles that mention it and I don't see why it's not something that could be included as a contractual term.

Anyone interested: Here's an excerpt from HokieMark's site:
"2) It sounds like the ACC decision-makers want to make sure ACC Network profits paid to the ACC would be more than the $2 million per year bump for not doing one. This is just due diligence."
http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2015/0...22615.html

Reach out to him and he might tell you the source that he used.

I don't recall the network info coming out at the time Notre Dame was added. Maybe it did, but I don't recall it at that time. In any event, it wasn't when they bumped the contract to $17 million/school with Pitt and SU. With Notre Dame they bumped it up over $18 million per school for a guarantee of 2.5 games a year, when they were already normally getting 1 or 2 without any guarantees. So $38 million (14 X 18-17 + 14X2) seems like a lot for that.

It certainly could be part of a deal, but it still doesn't make sense.
Then again, maybe they pay $2 million total if they don't do it. That could be the deal and it could have been misinterpreted. That could be to compensate the ACC for any studies they have done, kind of a breakup fee. But $28 million would be awfully high for that.

Now that 2 million per school has been reported by several very reliable sources, but even reliable ones sometimes make mistakes. So I reserve the right to remain skeptical that the deal is as reported.

Keep in mind that UL replaced UMD and the GoR was signed at that point, too.
05-14-2015 06:06 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 05:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  Its probably a moot point anyway. ESPN will find a way to make the network work. Basketball fills more air time than football and ACC basketball is a valuable commodity. The 3 biggest money makers even in the football crazy SEC for Tier 3 were Kentucky, Florida and Arkansas. I just wouldn't expect it to start up quickly. ESPN just renewed most of their contracts and the mouse is a powerful ally when trying to get coverage. Without the extra weight of the mouse, it might take a while like the BTN and LHN did to get coverage.

I'm actually surprised by the LHN. They have the mouse on their side.
05-14-2015 06:08 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #49
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 10:23 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 10:20 AM)Maize Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 09:40 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  I really hope the ACC gets paid by ESPN every time they vaguely mention having a network. ESPN *has* to be making a killing off of it, and if the conference had any foresight, we could pretty much mint money.

We are still in a wait and see...my hope is it will be done by the 2017-2018 College Year.

Seems to get pushed farther and farther out.

Yep. If the YES network doesn't release the sublet rights they purchased from Raycom then it will be 2021 before it is even practical. Somehow I don't see a FOX affiliate being extremely cooperative in this matter.
05-14-2015 07:23 PM
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Post: #50
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 05:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  Its probably a moot point anyway. ESPN will find a way to make the network work. Basketball fills more air time than football and ACC basketball is a valuable commodity. The 3 biggest money makers even in the football crazy SEC for Tier 3 were Kentucky, Florida and Arkansas. I just wouldn't expect it to start up quickly. ESPN just renewed most of their contracts and the mouse is a powerful ally when trying to get coverage. Without the extra weight of the mouse, it might take a while like the BTN and LHN did to get coverage.

The top three earners in the SEC were Alabama, Florida, and L.S.U. in that order followed by Tennessee, Auburn, and Arkansas in that order. Kentucky wasn't in the top 6 in total sports revenue.
05-14-2015 07:33 PM
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Post: #51
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 06:08 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 05:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  Its probably a moot point anyway. ESPN will find a way to make the network work. Basketball fills more air time than football and ACC basketball is a valuable commodity. The 3 biggest money makers even in the football crazy SEC for Tier 3 were Kentucky, Florida and Arkansas. I just wouldn't expect it to start up quickly. ESPN just renewed most of their contracts and the mouse is a powerful ally when trying to get coverage. Without the extra weight of the mouse, it might take a while like the BTN and LHN did to get coverage.

I'm actually surprised by the LHN. They have the mouse on their side.

The Mouse swings and misses sometimes too. IIRC, a couple years ago their "Lone Ranger" movie lost about $200 million after it flopped at the box office. ESPN assumed a Texas-sized demand for Texas's non-revenue sports, and well, turned out all the fans want to see is football. Go figure. 07-coffee3
05-14-2015 07:34 PM
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GTTiger Offline
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Post: #52
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 09:16 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  "That’s one of the appeals of going the channel route and why we have an interest in fully evaluating that as we move forward..."

The ACC has been fully evaluating a network channel for about 3 years nows. I really don't see how a network launch is a foregone conclusion - especially based on Swofford's comments.

Then you haven't been listening close enough. A network will happen.
05-14-2015 08:37 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #53
Re: RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 08:37 PM)GTTiger Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 09:16 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  "That’s one of the appeals of going the channel route and why we have an interest in fully evaluating that as we move forward..."

The ACC has been fully evaluating a network channel for about 3 years nows. I really don't see how a network launch is a foregone conclusion - especially based on Swofford's comments.

Then you haven't been listening close enough. A network will happen.

Probably, but when? I say 2022.
05-14-2015 08:43 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #54
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 07:34 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 06:08 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 05:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  Its probably a moot point anyway. ESPN will find a way to make the network work. Basketball fills more air time than football and ACC basketball is a valuable commodity. The 3 biggest money makers even in the football crazy SEC for Tier 3 were Kentucky, Florida and Arkansas. I just wouldn't expect it to start up quickly. ESPN just renewed most of their contracts and the mouse is a powerful ally when trying to get coverage. Without the extra weight of the mouse, it might take a while like the BTN and LHN did to get coverage.

I'm actually surprised by the LHN. They have the mouse on their side.

The Mouse swings and misses sometimes too. IIRC, a couple years ago their "Lone Ranger" movie lost about $200 million after it flopped at the box office. ESPN assumed a Texas-sized demand for Texas's non-revenue sports, and well, turned out all the fans want to see is football. Go figure. 07-coffee3

Mars Needs Moms was also a massive strike.

The difference is that there really is no way for the Mouse to lean on movie watchers to make a bad movie viable. They absolutely can with cable companies. Specifically, they can effectively transfer profits from ESPN to any station that they want, thereby making that channel look promising. I can see that looking good for investors. However, the cost would be sharing some of that money with the U of Texas. I guess that's why ESPN didn't lean too hard.
05-14-2015 09:50 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
[Image: DwbqtKB.gif]

reaction from fsu, clemson, gatech and miami

they need to get out soon
05-14-2015 10:52 PM
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33laszlo99 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 11:15 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:03 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 10:58 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 10:53 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 10:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  ESPN doesn't have much of an incentive to give the ACC a contract. They have the ACC under lock and key all the way out to 2027, a full twelve years from now, and at a pittance rate of about $17 million per school, per year.

That is a massive bargain, and ESPN didn't get rich by giving away these kinds of gains. Even the SEC had to get squeezed by the balls to get its network, and the money it is getting from that network isn't nearly as much as they'd be getting had they not signed their 2008 deal.

The ACC will get a network sometimes around 2022 or 2023, when the end of the ESPN contract gets close enough for ESPN to seriously consider locking them up for more years.

Maybe FOX will give the ACC a network, then. Perhaps it will only have TII & TIII rights content, but a network nonetheless.

Seems to work well for the B1G. Big games on ESPN & ABC. The rest on the BTN.

The BTN was really well timed. Even if we get content from Fox or whoever owns it and partner with ESPN/FOX/NBC/etc., I question what the value add will be. I think that there will be one. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think that it will be anywhere close to as big as many on here believe.

The BTN doesn't add value for the B1G?

It's hard to say. I think that it probably does, but it's value is likely incredibly overstated by many. Who knows what the B1G could get if they sold their content to NBC/ESPN/FOX? It probably comes close to netting out once you take into account the increased risk from having the network and once the startup costs are accounted for.

To clarify the last sentence:
Risky investments are less desirable so the market compensates for that by driving the relative price down and thus the expected return on investment up (see the CAPM model). Since owning a channel is more risky than selling content on contract to a channel owner, I would expect the channel to make more. I just wouldn't necessarily expect it to make more given it's risk profile. That's especially true given the high startup costs. Obviously spending money at time zero is more expensive than spending that same amount of money at time 0+X, where X is positive. As such, once you factor in the initial startup costs, the NPV of the B1G when it was launched shrinks dramatically.

NZ, you/re talking about the BTN as though it was a theoretical business venture. It exists. Its value can be measured almost entirely by the money the schools pocket each year. And by the way, the B1G schools do offer their ganes to the large broadcast players. The BTN makes its hay with the leftover content and minor sports.
(This post was last modified: 05-14-2015 11:32 PM by 33laszlo99.)
05-14-2015 11:31 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #57
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-14-2015 11:31 PM)33laszlo99 Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:15 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:03 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 10:58 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 10:53 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Maybe FOX will give the ACC a network, then. Perhaps it will only have TII & TIII rights content, but a network nonetheless.

Seems to work well for the B1G. Big games on ESPN & ABC. The rest on the BTN.

The BTN was really well timed. Even if we get content from Fox or whoever owns it and partner with ESPN/FOX/NBC/etc., I question what the value add will be. I think that there will be one. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think that it will be anywhere close to as big as many on here believe.

The BTN doesn't add value for the B1G?

It's hard to say. I think that it probably does, but it's value is likely incredibly overstated by many. Who knows what the B1G could get if they sold their content to NBC/ESPN/FOX? It probably comes close to netting out once you take into account the increased risk from having the network and once the startup costs are accounted for.

To clarify the last sentence:
Risky investments are less desirable so the market compensates for that by driving the relative price down and thus the expected return on investment up (see the CAPM model). Since owning a channel is more risky than selling content on contract to a channel owner, I would expect the channel to make more. I just wouldn't necessarily expect it to make more given it's risk profile. That's especially true given the high startup costs. Obviously spending money at time zero is more expensive than spending that same amount of money at time 0+X, where X is positive. As such, once you factor in the initial startup costs, the NPV of the B1G when it was launched shrinks dramatically.

NZ, you/re talking about the BTN as though it was a theoretical business venture. It exists. Its value can be measured almost entirely by the money the schools pocket each year. And by the way, the B1G schools do offer their ganes to the large broadcast players. The BTN makes its hay with the leftover content and minor sports.

You don't know the opportunity cost. The BTN might make $8 million per school per year, but if ithe conference can get $7.9 million per school per year selling the content to ESPN, is that really a game-changing move? Also, factoring the NPV of the startup costs is complicated. If it cost $2 mm to get the hypothetical extra $0.1 mm described earlier, was it really a good investment? I would say no.

Don't get me wrong. Those are all hypothetical numbers, but they illustrate the point. We have no idea how much of a benefit the BTN provides the conference. We only know the ceiling.

Also, if I throw all my money into penny stocks, I am going to have a crazy high expected return, but my risk exposure will probably be crazy high. Is that really a better investment that buying index funds and taking a lower expected return for a very minimal amount of risk? Most people would say "no." How do you account for that?

-sorry if my response rambles. I'm on a phone
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2015 12:29 AM by nzmorange.)
05-15-2015 12:22 AM
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33laszlo99 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-15-2015 12:22 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:31 PM)33laszlo99 Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:15 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 11:03 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(05-14-2015 10:58 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  The BTN was really well timed. Even if we get content from Fox or whoever owns it and partner with ESPN/FOX/NBC/etc., I question what the value add will be. I think that there will be one. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think that it will be anywhere close to as big as many on here believe.

The BTN doesn't add value for the B1G?

It's hard to say. I think that it probably does, but it's value is likely incredibly overstated by many. Who knows what the B1G could get if they sold their content to NBC/ESPN/FOX? It probably comes close to netting out once you take into account the increased risk from having the network and once the startup costs are accounted for.

To clarify the last sentence:
Risky investments are less desirable so the market compensates for that by driving the relative price down and thus the expected return on investment up (see the CAPM model). Since owning a channel is more risky than selling content on contract to a channel owner, I would expect the channel to make more. I just wouldn't necessarily expect it to make more given it's risk profile. That's especially true given the high startup costs. Obviously spending money at time zero is more expensive than spending that same amount of money at time 0+X, where X is positive. As such, once you factor in the initial startup costs, the NPV of the B1G when it was launched shrinks dramatically.

NZ, you/re talking about the BTN as though it was a theoretical business venture. It exists. Its value can be measured almost entirely by the money the schools pocket each year. And by the way, the B1G schools do offer their ganes to the large broadcast players. The BTN makes its hay with the leftover content and minor sports.

You don't know the opportunity cost. The BTN might make $8 million per school per year, but if ithe conference can get $7.9 million per school per year selling the content to ESPN, is that really a game-changing move? Also, factoring the NPV of the startup costs is complicated. If it cost $2 mm to get the hypothetical extra $0.1 mm described earlier, was it really a good investment? I would say no.

Don't get me wrong. Those are all hypothetical numbers, but they illustrate the point. We have no idea how much of a benefit the BTN provides the conference. We only know the ceiling.

Also, if I throw all my money into penny stocks, I am going to have a crazy high expected return, but my risk exposure will probably be crazy high. Is that really a better investment that buying index funds and taking a lower expected return for a very minimal amount of risk? Most people would say "no." How do you account for that?

-sorry if my response rambles. I'm on a phone

Okay, I’m not a business major, but you've done a good enough job explaining that If the B1G makes $8 million from the BTN, maybe they could have gotten $7.9 by just offering the content to an established broadcast company. They incur less effort and less financial risk. Am I right so far? But remember, this isn't just generic investing for maximum return. It’s investing in an existing enterprise (college athletics) in order to exploit that enterprise to its fullest.
The conference does, in fact, know how much they made by parceling out those games in the past, before the BTN existed. There are only a precious few TV slots on autumn weekends for college football games. The big broadcast companies buy media rights that allow them to select the most attractive games on the schedule from each conference for a particular week. The overwhelming majority of the games, obviously, don't make the cut. The broadcasters bid huge amounts of money to get the choice of the games. That part of the business is the same now as it was before. Here's what is different. In the past (pre BTN) the leftover games could only hope to be picked up by a local or regional broadcaster. The money wasn’t great and the audience wasn’t very broad. With the BTN, the league can broadcast some of these games, although, in truth, many of them are still consigned to local broadcast. Advertising revenue (less than spectacular) is now part of the equation. That is the monetary value of the BTN
But the BTN is now available to the rest of the various athletic teams, who traditionally never appeared on TV. The expanded exposure of all athletes in this conference enhances recruiting and improves the experience for the participating students. These are non-monetary, but still valuable.
The SEC saw clear value in the BTN and rushed to emulate it. That is a testament to its value. Now comes the ACC. Your arguments may be more germane here. The reticence shown by ACC leaders tells us that they may see more risk and less opportunity. They are reeeaaally dragging their feet. I get the feeling that the final product for the ACC will look nothing like the BTN, SECN or PAC Networks.
05-15-2015 03:05 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #59
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-15-2015 03:05 AM)33laszlo99 Wrote:  Okay, I’m not a business major, but you've done a good enough job explaining that If the B1G makes $8 million from the BTN, maybe they could have gotten $7.9 by just offering the content to an established broadcast company. They incur less effort and less financial risk. Am I right so far? But remember, this isn't just generic investing for maximum return. It’s investing in an existing enterprise (college athletics) in order to exploit that enterprise to its fullest.
The conference does, in fact, know how much they made by parceling out those games in the past, before the BTN existed. There are only a precious few TV slots on autumn weekends for college football games. The big broadcast companies buy media rights that allow them to select the most attractive games on the schedule from each conference for a particular week. The overwhelming majority of the games, obviously, don't make the cut. The broadcasters bid huge amounts of money to get the choice of the games. That part of the business is the same now as it was before. Here's what is different. In the past (pre BTN) the leftover games could only hope to be picked up by a local or regional broadcaster. The money wasn’t great and the audience wasn’t very broad. With the BTN, the league can broadcast some of these games, although, in truth, many of them are still consigned to local broadcast. Advertising revenue (less than spectacular) is now part of the equation. That is the monetary value of the BTN
But the BTN is now available to the rest of the various athletic teams, who traditionally never appeared on TV. The expanded exposure of all athletes in this conference enhances recruiting and improves the experience for the participating students. These are non-monetary, but still valuable.
The SEC saw clear value in the BTN and rushed to emulate it. That is a testament to its value. Now comes the ACC. Your arguments may be more germane here. The reticence shown by ACC leaders tells us that they may see more risk and less opportunity. They are reeeaaally dragging their feet. I get the feeling that the final product for the ACC will look nothing like the BTN, SECN or PAC Networks.
I'm going to repeat a lot of what I've already said, but I don't want anything out of context, because there are several nuances to my argument. So, if I seem redundant, bear with me. Also, I may not have been incredibly clear. I would rather have a conference network than not. My point is simply that the benefits are much harder to measure than most claim and they are almost certainly much smaller than most claim.

The BTN was ground-breaking and a game-changing move because of its timing, not because it is an inherently better delivery method.
1) The BTN established a credible threat to entry into the network space, which caused ESPN (who dominated the market at the time) to pay rates which were based on the content's intrinsic value, as opposed to the content's value in the next best media format.
2) The BTN happened to take on more risk right before an unexpected boom in popularity. Since the BTN floats with popularity, that was a wind fall.

However, factor #1 is no-longer necessary. It caused everyone's rights to adjust, as everyone now has that threat (and the market is much more competitive). And, factor #2 is by definition unpredictable and can swing both ways. As such, if the BTN was launched in today's competitive environment, I don't think that it would have been seen as ground-breaking.

On a similar note, given high speed internet and cable proliferation, and general advancements in telecommunications, I don't think that the added content is a big deal. Sure there is probably a shave more, but it's marginal stuff. Virtually every conference has at least an internet-based digital network (even smaller ones like the SoCon) which are able to accommodate much of the extra programming, especially given the boom in sports channels, both on cable and on the internet (i.e. ESPN3). If we were still in the 90's you would have a strong point, but times have changed. There is simply near limitless capacity for P5 content, with or without conference networks.

That said, going back to my early statements, I do agree that conference-owned networks do have value. They are an efficient vehicle by which a conference can control its image/manage its message, they probably have academic advantages (I'm guessing in the form of internships if nothing else), and they have the potential to create a long-term relationship with a television partner who is incentivized to make relationship-specific investments for the conference.

Unfortunately, the first two factors (message and academics) are small potatoes in my opinion and the third factor (relationship-specific investments) are dramatically overstated. Networks, like ESPN, already have all the conferences locked into long-term relationships (12-20 years). Because of the time value of money, that is a significant chunk of the conference's total media value. Having the rights to tier 3 content from year 21 to the end of time really doesn't create much more of an incentive to talk up a conference when the network already owns the next 20 years of tiers 1-3 content.

After those factors are taken into account, I don't really see any gains that aren't pretty well balanced out by opposing forces. Conference-owned networks might have higher expected values but they also involve more risk. Those two forces could very well net out (depending on one's risk tolerance). Conference-owned networks *might* be better at extracting carriage fees (they *might* also be worse - pending elasticities), but that advantage comes at a price of a loss of exposure. Conference networks may generate more revenue in most years, but they have high upfront costs in year 0, and that is the most important year because of the time value of money.*

If the market cooled, which it very well might - it has been growing very fast for a very long time and that can't last forever, then the conferences without networks will look smart. If the market booms unexpectedly, the conference with networks will look smart. Since humans tend to overlook risks during good times and assume that the good times will last forever, investors tend to take massive risks until the market sours and then they get very conservative (see banks leading up to the "Great Recession" and shortly afterwards). The SEC/Pac could very well be going down that path (I left the B1G out because their timing was dramatically different, so they're a special animal). Like I said earlier, I think that conference-owned networks are a net gain and should be pursued, but I hesitate to use the B1G, SEC, and Pac 12 as proof that they're a good idea. The B1G launched their network in a special circumstance. It opened up the market for everyone and once the initial investment cost was incurred, it's cheaper/more profitable to let it run than shut it down and sell the content through other means. And, the SEC/Pac might be jumping off a cliff.

Ultimately, time will tell. However, I think that the fact that the Pac doesn't appear to be tangibly more profitable than either the Big XII or the ACC (despite a hefty upfront investment cost) is evidence that conference networks aren't inherently better means of delivering content and extracting value from viewers/subscribers.

*Having money sooner is better than money later because A) you can invest it and make a return on that investment while you would otherwise be waiting, and B) it is a sure thing, whereas a promise to get paid in the future has an inherent risk of default.
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2015 04:07 AM by nzmorange.)
05-15-2015 04:06 AM
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Post: #60
RE: ACC Commish Comments on the ACC Network..
(05-15-2015 04:06 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Networks, like ESPN, already have all the conferences locked into long-term relationships (12-20 years).

The B1G has half of its main rights coming up for bid next year. They are really in the catbird's seat.
05-15-2015 07:47 AM
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