They are in a good Olympic conference with the top non P5 Western bball draw.

They seem to be picking the top MWC and AAC teams for football opponents.
That and they have more P5 opponents than any G5 team.
Their TV deal is better than any G5 conference member gets.

Say P5 realignment is done the playoff goes to eight and B12 gets auto bid or whatever.Being independent might be a good option for a select few.The Big east could take Uconn and Cinncy and both would get more playoff money. Boise if a group formed could get their own football deal.

Independents would also work for schools in the North with few options.
Schools that are locked out for whatever reason like JSU or Liberty.
Schools who like their basketball conference like UNI or MSU.
Schools who like their academic fit like JMU or maybe Delaware .
NDSU or SDSU who have the fans and are competitive but no realistic option exist.

Not everyone is BYU but their 2015 schedule compares to a lot of P5 schedules.
Getting access for the Access Bowl and a little better playoff payout for independents would help make it happen.That is coupled with the realization the P5 won't expand.

everything is great for BYU except for the fact that Utah State has more of a chance to go to the access bowl than they do. not a snowballs chance in hell that BYU will get access to that as an independent. that's just not going to change- no matter how much byu fans want that to change.

If they had not turned down the Big East, this could have happened:

West - BYU*, Boise State*, San Diego State*, Fresno State*, SMU, Houston
East - Cincinnati, Connecticut, Temple, USF, UCF, Memphis

If the C7 stayed, they would have likely welcomed a basketball scheduling agreement with BYU and San Diego State, although they probably would have preferred UNLV over Fresno State.

The Mountain West would have added NMSU and Idaho. The Big East tells all four of its football affiliates to join the WAC, who along with Seattle, Denver, UTPA, and UT-Arlington hold down the fort.

The Sun Belt keeps winds up keeping WKU, MTSU, and gets one of Charlotte, UTSA, or Old Dominion.

BYU is in absolutely the worst position in all of FBS to get into an Access Bowl, and the extra money the make for their TV deal, while better than any G5, is paltry by P5 standards. So what "trend" are they setting other than the trend of maneuvering themselves into an untenable financial position for a school with aspirations of competing at the highest level of college football?

BYU is Aresco's claim of "tweener status" for the AAC realized, and its still a nightmare. For anyone but Notre Dame, there is no fertile ground to be found between the G5 and P5, and even Notre Dame had to create a partial association with the P5 to stay in fertile territory.

(05-09-2015 10:42 PM)MJG Wrote:  They are in a good Olympic conference with the top non P5 Western bball draw.

They seem to be picking the top MWC and AAC teams for football opponents.
That and they have more P5 opponents than any G5 team.
Their TV deal is better than any G5 conference member gets.

Say P5 realignment is done the playoff goes to eight and B12 gets auto bid or whatever.Being independent might be a good option for a select few.The Big east could take Uconn and Cinncy and both would get more playoff money. Boise if a group formed could get their own football deal.

Independents would also work for schools in the North with few options.
Schools that are locked out for whatever reason like JSU or Liberty.
Schools who like their basketball conference like UNI or MSU.
Schools who like their academic fit like JMU or maybe Delaware .
NDSU or SDSU who have the fans and are competitive but no realistic option exist.

Not everyone is BYU but their 2015 schedule compares to a lot of P5 schedules.
Getting access for the Access Bowl and a little better playoff payout for independents would help make it happen.That is coupled with the realization the P5 won't expand.

Which is why I have BYU joining The AAC when they move to 20. BYU won't mind at all being in a 20 team conference that only schedules 7 conference games a year. They would likely play Boise State, Colorado State, San Diego State and Fresno State/San Jose State every year which is ideal for them. One against every other division and then they have five ooc games to play around with in terms of figuring out some solid national scheduling.

(05-09-2015 10:42 PM)MJG Wrote:  Being independent might be a good option for a select few.The Big east could take Uconn and Cinncy and both would get more playoff money. Boise if a group formed could get their own football deal.

I could see those three and a few other current G5 teams being football indies, if they found a good place for their non-FB sports. Boise, in particular, could get as much ESPN money as BYU. If that happens, then maybe there will be a trend.

Teams like Idaho, NMSU, or UMass playing as football indies wouldn't be part of a trend, it would just mean that it's their last option for continuing to field an FBS football team.

They have been able to put together a nice schedule.
They would be more deserving of the Access Bowl than any G5 with a similar record.
I understand the CFP money being tied to conferences but the Access Bowl does not make sense .Should be the top non P5 team that year. I'm not a BYU fan so it really doesn't matter to me . BYU and Army should not be penalized for choosing independence in that way.

if Uconn and Cincy wanted to go independent, I doubt the AAC would keep them for non-football, and I doubt the Big East would ever take a FBS football school ever again. C-USA also won't take a school without their football. The ACC has made an exception for Notre Dame, but I doubt they would for anybody else.

so really the most realistic option for Uconn and Cincy for non-football sports is the A-10. The A-10 already makes an exception for UMASS. If Uconn and Cincy make that move, Temple and Buffalo might be tempted to do the same. then the 5-6 eastern football independents (Uconn, Cincy, Temple, UMass, Army, Buffalo) could all play each other.

then Uconn and Cincy can fill out their schedule with BYU, P5, AAC, Or MW schools.

or now that I think about it, the AAC could just add UMass and Buffalo, and then UConn and Cincy don't have to go anywhere.

No BYU isn't a trendsetter. Because they went independent at the wrong time and for no reason other than because Utah went to a P5 conference. While BYU went indy, Notre Dame, the biggest and strongest indy out there, gave up full indy status because of the changes happening in the CFB era.

BYU is pretty much screwed by staying Indy and if they don't join the MW or AAC now they may not be able to ever.
Why?
1. If the CFP doesn't expand, look for the P5 to become the P4 with the Big 12 being dissolved. Pac takes 4, B1G takes 2 and SEC takes 2. (the big if in this is WV being in the SEC or B1G). The rest will go to other G5 conferences. Judging how the chips were falling in 2010; ISU, KSU, Baylor and TCU will be the leftovers for the MW or others to fight for. Those properties are more valuable than BYU....yes even ISU have more value (and less headaches) to the MW than BYU does and BYU gets shutout even in the G5 conferences.

2. If the CFP does expand, the P5 stays the same and BYU is still on the outside as the Big 12 will not have any need to expand.
What we know from comments of the Pac commissioner, is the expansion will require auto bids. 5 of 8 spots will automatically be taken, 6 possibly if there is an arrangement with the G5 to take the best G5 conference champ. Leaving 2 for at-larges, most likely those at larges with the 2 highest rated teams that aren't conference champs and most likely will be in the top 8.
This give Notre Dame and BYU about the same chance as they do now with the Access bowls. But depending how the P5 champs are ranked, the bar could actually be higher to get in.

BYU if the don't decide to be part of the MW or AAC right now, won't be a part of any conference ever and will have to decide then if it's worth to play football just for a Hawaii bowl year in and out.

BYU's football coach on being a trendsetter.

"I hate to be pinned down, but if someone were to force me, I'd say three years – it has to happen within three. Could it go longer than that? Yes, it could. Is it desirable, to me, to go longer than that? That answer is no."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-s...19775.html

BYU doesn't think their current alignment is sustainable.

(05-10-2015 01:21 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  No BYU isn't a trendsetter. Because they went independent at the wrong time and for no reason other than because Utah went to a P5 conference. While BYU went indy, Notre Dame, the biggest and strongest indy out there, gave up full indy status because of the changes happening in the CFB era.

BYU is pretty much screwed by staying Indy and if they don't join the MW or AAC now they may not be able to ever.
Why?
1. If the CFP doesn't expand, look for the P5 to become the P4 with the Big 12 being dissolved. Pac takes 4, B1G takes 2 and SEC takes 2. (the big if in this is WV being in the SEC or B1G). The rest will go to other G5 conferences. Judging how the chips were falling in 2010; ISU, KSU, Baylor and TCU will be the leftovers for the MW or others to fight for. Those properties are more valuable than BYU....yes even ISU have more value (and less headaches) to the MW than BYU does and BYU gets shutout even in the G5 conferences.

2. If the CFP does expand, the P5 stays the same and BYU is still on the outside as the Big 12 will not have any need to expand.
What we know from comments of the Pac commissioner, is the expansion will require auto bids. 5 of 8 spots will automatically be taken, 6 possibly if there is an arrangement with the G5 to take the best G5 conference champ. Leaving 2 for at-larges, most likely those at larges with the 2 highest rated teams that aren't conference champs and most likely will be in the top 8.
This give Notre Dame and BYU about the same chance as they do now with the Access bowls. But depending how the P5 champs are ranked, the bar could actually be higher to get in.

BYU if the don't decide to be part of the MW or AAC right now, won't be a part of any conference ever and will have to decide then if it's worth to play football just for a Hawaii bowl year in and out.

While I love your contrarian stance, you need more understanding about How a big 12 dissolution actually happens. You list six big 12 schools getting spots within the PAC, Big Ten and SEC conferences. A major vote like that requires a large majority, or in other words, a 75% vote margin. Since the big 12 is just 10 schools, that means 8 of those schools need to vote yes. So why would two of those schools vote yes if all they were going to achieve would be being part of the MWC or AAC? That isn't going to happen.

So, the logical line of reasoning is that you have to come up with a scenario of at least 8 schools getting homes in the other four major conferences. Where some of us disagree is that you would get eight of those schools to be willing to completely screw over two of the others.

You might argue that emotions have no place in this kind of business and for the most part I would agree but......the dissolution of the conference indirectly voids the GoR. That GoR has other parties to it, mainly the likes of Fox and ESPN. So the indirect voiding of it causes damages to both Networks AND the other two schools that would be left behind.

Whatever financial boons could be found from that move by those eight schools, likely is all lost in damages paid out to damaged parties.

So, work on your scenario and find a place for every single one of the big 12 schools IF you are going to talk dissolution.

It is pretty simple...the 65 Schools currently above the "Mendoza Line" will stay above it...you may have some shifting in the future but the current schools including the Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor, Wake Forest, and the Newcomers in TCU, Utah and Louisville at this point are safe from G5 Status....

(05-10-2015 01:23 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  BYU's football coach on being a trendsetter.

"I hate to be pinned down, but if someone were to force me, I'd say three years – it has to happen within three. Could it go longer than that? Yes, it could. Is it desirable, to me, to go longer than that? That answer is no."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-s...19775.html

BYU doesn't think their current alignment is sustainable.

Mendenhall is not saying there that BYU is going to surrender and beg the MWC to take them back if they don't get into the Big 12 in three years. He's just saying that he thinks that either they'll get into the Big 12 within three years or it's not going to happen.

(05-10-2015 01:27 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(05-10-2015 01:21 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  No BYU isn't a trendsetter. Because they went independent at the wrong time and for no reason other than because Utah went to a P5 conference. While BYU went indy, Notre Dame, the biggest and strongest indy out there, gave up full indy status because of the changes happening in the CFB era.

BYU is pretty much screwed by staying Indy and if they don't join the MW or AAC now they may not be able to ever.
Why?
1. If the CFP doesn't expand, look for the P5 to become the P4 with the Big 12 being dissolved. Pac takes 4, B1G takes 2 and SEC takes 2. (the big if in this is WV being in the SEC or B1G). The rest will go to other G5 conferences. Judging how the chips were falling in 2010; ISU, KSU, Baylor and TCU will be the leftovers for the MW or others to fight for. Those properties are more valuable than BYU....yes even ISU have more value (and less headaches) to the MW than BYU does and BYU gets shutout even in the G5 conferences.

2. If the CFP does expand, the P5 stays the same and BYU is still on the outside as the Big 12 will not have any need to expand.
What we know from comments of the Pac commissioner, is the expansion will require auto bids. 5 of 8 spots will automatically be taken, 6 possibly if there is an arrangement with the G5 to take the best G5 conference champ. Leaving 2 for at-larges, most likely those at larges with the 2 highest rated teams that aren't conference champs and most likely will be in the top 8.
This give Notre Dame and BYU about the same chance as they do now with the Access bowls. But depending how the P5 champs are ranked, the bar could actually be higher to get in.

BYU if the don't decide to be part of the MW or AAC right now, won't be a part of any conference ever and will have to decide then if it's worth to play football just for a Hawaii bowl year in and out.

While I love your contrarian stance, you need more understanding about How a big 12 dissolution actually happens. You list six big 12 schools getting spots within the PAC, Big Ten and SEC conferences. A major vote like that requires a large majority, or in other words, a 75% vote margin. Since the big 12 is just 10 schools, that means 8 of those schools need to vote yes. So why would two of those schools vote yes if all they were going to achieve would be being part of the MWC or AAC? That isn't going to happen.

So, the logical line of reasoning is that you have to come up with a scenario of at least 8 schools getting homes in the other four major conferences. Where some of us disagree is that you would get eight of those schools to be willing to completely screw over two of the others.

You might argue that emotions have no place in this kind of business and for the most part I would agree but......the dissolution of the conference indirectly voids the GoR. That GoR has other parties to it, mainly the likes of Fox and ESPN. So the indirect voiding of it causes damages to both Networks AND the other two schools that would be left behind.

Whatever financial boons could be found from that move by those eight schools, likely is all lost in damages paid out to damaged parties.

So, work on your scenario and find a place for every single one of the big 12 schools IF you are going to talk dissolution.

The GOR will only effect 1 or 2 schools that wanted to leave. But, if 6 schools leave at once, then the conference just dissolves. All it takes is for 1 P5 conference to make the move and then the feeding frenzy begins.
How it'll play out I'm not sure because there certain academic factors for the PAC and B1G, but just to play it out here is an example as the point isn't who goes where from the Big 12 it's that BYU is left out a conference.
SEC - Ok, Ok. St.
B1G - West Virginia, Kansas
PAC - T. Tech, Tex,

ISU, Baylor, TCU and KSU would be left out as before....the MW would take all of them in a heartbeat or even if 2 go to MW and 2 to the AAC....BYU is still out as those programs would be better than BYU.

I disagree. I live in SLC and BYU fans are not happy. Most of it is driven by Utah/PAC12 envy, but the home football schedule is awful and there is nothing to play for in Nov after bowl game already locked in. No conference championship, no all-conference honors...very boring. Basketball has been relegated to a bunch of high school gyms.

At one point Tulane was on equal footing with LSU, and look at the chasm now since Tulane left the SEC. In another 10 years, BYU will be Utah Utes' Tulane. That's why Coach Mendenhall keeps talking about getting to a P5 conference in the next 3 years...after that may be too late.

(05-10-2015 05:24 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-10-2015 01:27 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(05-10-2015 01:21 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  No BYU isn't a trendsetter. Because they went independent at the wrong time and for no reason other than because Utah went to a P5 conference. While BYU went indy, Notre Dame, the biggest and strongest indy out there, gave up full indy status because of the changes happening in the CFB era.

BYU is pretty much screwed by staying Indy and if they don't join the MW or AAC now they may not be able to ever.
Why?
1. If the CFP doesn't expand, look for the P5 to become the P4 with the Big 12 being dissolved. Pac takes 4, B1G takes 2 and SEC takes 2. (the big if in this is WV being in the SEC or B1G). The rest will go to other G5 conferences. Judging how the chips were falling in 2010; ISU, KSU, Baylor and TCU will be the leftovers for the MW or others to fight for. Those properties are more valuable than BYU....yes even ISU have more value (and less headaches) to the MW than BYU does and BYU gets shutout even in the G5 conferences.

2. If the CFP does expand, the P5 stays the same and BYU is still on the outside as the Big 12 will not have any need to expand.
What we know from comments of the Pac commissioner, is the expansion will require auto bids. 5 of 8 spots will automatically be taken, 6 possibly if there is an arrangement with the G5 to take the best G5 conference champ. Leaving 2 for at-larges, most likely those at larges with the 2 highest rated teams that aren't conference champs and most likely will be in the top 8.
This give Notre Dame and BYU about the same chance as they do now with the Access bowls. But depending how the P5 champs are ranked, the bar could actually be higher to get in.

BYU if the don't decide to be part of the MW or AAC right now, won't be a part of any conference ever and will have to decide then if it's worth to play football just for a Hawaii bowl year in and out.

While I love your contrarian stance, you need more understanding about How a big 12 dissolution actually happens. You list six big 12 schools getting spots within the PAC, Big Ten and SEC conferences. A major vote like that requires a large majority, or in other words, a 75% vote margin. Since the big 12 is just 10 schools, that means 8 of those schools need to vote yes. So why would two of those schools vote yes if all they were going to achieve would be being part of the MWC or AAC? That isn't going to happen.

So, the logical line of reasoning is that you have to come up with a scenario of at least 8 schools getting homes in the other four major conferences. Where some of us disagree is that you would get eight of those schools to be willing to completely screw over two of the others.

You might argue that emotions have no place in this kind of business and for the most part I would agree but......the dissolution of the conference indirectly voids the GoR. That GoR has other parties to it, mainly the likes of Fox and ESPN. So the indirect voiding of it causes damages to both Networks AND the other two schools that would be left behind.

Whatever financial boons could be found from that move by those eight schools, likely is all lost in damages paid out to damaged parties.

So, work on your scenario and find a place for every single one of the big 12 schools IF you are going to talk dissolution.

The GOR will only effect 1 or 2 schools that wanted to leave. But, if 6 schools leave at once, then the conference just dissolves. All it takes is for 1 P5 conference to make the move and then the feeding frenzy begins.
How it'll play out I'm not sure because there certain academic factors for the PAC and B1G, but just to play it out here is an example as the point isn't who goes where from the Big 12 it's that BYU is left out a conference.
SEC - Ok, Ok. St.
B1G - West Virginia, Kansas
PAC - T. Tech, Tex,

ISU, Baylor, TCU and KSU would be left out as before....the MW would take all of them in a heartbeat or even if 2 go to MW and 2 to the AAC....BYU is still out as those programs would be better than BYU.

Sorry, it doesn't just "dissolve" and you didn't even address the legal ramifications of the indirect voiding of the GoR. You are simply looking for a way to get some big 12 schools in your MWC.

It's simple- it takes 8 schools to dissolve the conference. Period.

(05-10-2015 06:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It's simple- it takes 8 schools to dissolve the conference. Period.

I would say it takes at least 8. Iowa State might not have any white knights to save them, but I'd bet most of the candidates for relegation would be able to muster at least one other vote of support.

(05-10-2015 06:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-10-2015 06:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It's simple- it takes 8 schools to dissolve the conference. Period.

I would say it takes at least 8. Iowa State might not have any white knights to save them, but I'd bet most of the candidates for relegation would be able to muster at least one other vote of support.

I don't see how it would be hard for a coalition between ISU and KSU to draw in one more school.

(05-10-2015 06:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(05-10-2015 06:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-10-2015 06:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It's simple- it takes 8 schools to dissolve the conference. Period.

I would say it takes at least 8. Iowa State might not have any white knights to save them, but I'd bet most of the candidates for relegation would be able to muster at least one other vote of support.

I don't see how it would be hard for a coalition between ISU and KSU to draw in one more school.

Just look at Ken Starr and Baylor in 2011...