the 5 niu frat guyswere sentenced to 2 year court supervision, 100 hours community service and a $1,000 fine

Not enough. But whatevs.

Sounds fair I think. The deceased was a grown up making his own decisions, and going through similar behavior to 1 million+ other college pledges (and many more non-pledges) that week. His card came up when the dealer cut the deck, insanely sad but no reason to over-punish those around him to placate the press and greek-haters.

No one was forcing drinks down the kids throat. Penalty is too harsh.

(05-08-2015 09:56 PM)PrideinthePack Wrote:  No one was forcing drinks down the kids throat. Penalty is too harsh.

So why do you think NIU has a hazing policy?

(05-09-2015 09:47 AM)NIU75 Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 09:56 PM)PrideinthePack Wrote:  No one was forcing drinks down the kids throat. Penalty is too harsh.

So why do you think NIU has a hazing policy?

Good PR.

Social pressures can be a huge deal. He may have ingested the drinks himself but the social pressures can cause smart people to do a lot of really stupid stuff.

(05-08-2015 09:56 PM)PrideinthePack Wrote:  No one was forcing drinks down the kids throat. Penalty is too harsh.

What? Bogenberger had to go through the initiation ritual to become a Pike. From the article in today's Trib:

Quote:Then they sat as a group and listened as Bogenberger’s parents, Ruth and Gary, read statements to the court. The couple have moved from northwest suburban Palatine to Florida, and they traveled back to Illinois to be at the hearing.

“On Nov. 2, 2012, 22 men pledging to be David’s brothers for life ridiculed, tormented, poisoned and killed him,” Ruth Bogenberger said. “The human decency that most of us would render to a sick animal, these self-proclaimed ‘brothers’ would not even extend to a young man they pledged a lifelong brotherhood to.”

Gary Bogenberger described his son, one of a set of triplets, as an affable, caring person looking for friendship and acceptance.

“You used his need for these to render him incapacitated and dead,” the father said.

On the night he died, Bogenberger, 19, was taking part in a pledge initiation activity at the Pi Kappa Alpha house on the NIU campus. He and other pledges went from room to room in the house, answering questions posed by fraternity members and downing shots of alcohol.

The next morning, members discovered Bogenberger had died, and an autopsy would reveal that he had consumed so much alcohol that it caused his heart to stop. Tests showed a 0.40 blood-alcohol level.

You could make a strong case that they got off easy.

A grown ass man downs alcohol for HIS own purposes and others are to be blamed? No one tied him to a chair and water boarded him with alcohol. He decided to pledge that fraternity, he decided to consume that alcohol, many of us have over indulged and did not die. Sorry he died, but the primary reason he died was because of his actions and beliefs.

(05-09-2015 03:04 PM)huskiebob Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 09:56 PM)PrideinthePack Wrote:  No one was forcing drinks down the kids throat. Penalty is too harsh.

What? Bogenberger had to go through the initiation ritual to become a Pike. From the article in today's Trib:

Quote:Then they sat as a group and listened as Bogenberger’s parents, Ruth and Gary, read statements to the court. The couple have moved from northwest suburban Palatine to Florida, and they traveled back to Illinois to be at the hearing.

“On Nov. 2, 2012, 22 men pledging to be David’s brothers for life ridiculed, tormented, poisoned and killed him,” Ruth Bogenberger said. “The human decency that most of us would render to a sick animal, these self-proclaimed ‘brothers’ would not even extend to a young man they pledged a lifelong brotherhood to.”

Gary Bogenberger described his son, one of a set of triplets, as an affable, caring person looking for friendship and acceptance.

“You used his need for these to render him incapacitated and dead,” the father said.

On the night he died, Bogenberger, 19, was taking part in a pledge initiation activity at the Pi Kappa Alpha house on the NIU campus. He and other pledges went from room to room in the house, answering questions posed by fraternity members and downing shots of alcohol.

The next morning, members discovered Bogenberger had died, and an autopsy would reveal that he had consumed so much alcohol that it caused his heart to stop. Tests showed a 0.40 blood-alcohol level.

You could make a strong case that they got off easy.

Don't believe everything you read in the paper.

He had a choice to drink. No one forced him to go to the party. No one made him take a drink. That was his choice.

(05-09-2015 03:41 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  A grown ass man downs alcohol for HIS own purposes and others are to be blamed? No one tied him to a chair and water boarded him with alcohol. He decided to pledge that fraternity, he decided to consume that alcohol, many of us have over indulged and did not die. Sorry he died, but the primary reason he died was because of his actions and beliefs.

Exactly. He was never forced to do anything.

Either way, it doesn't say much for the fraternity "brothers". Peer pressure to get someone to do something which is obviously dangerous, just means the frat guys are stupid.

Frats suck in general. Pay to have friends, makes sense......

(05-09-2015 05:35 PM)PrideinthePack Wrote:  

(05-09-2015 03:41 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  A grown ass man downs alcohol for HIS own purposes and others are to be blamed? No one tied him to a chair and water boarded him with alcohol. He decided to pledge that fraternity, he decided to consume that alcohol, many of us have over indulged and did not die. Sorry he died, but the primary reason he died was because of his actions and beliefs.

Exactly. He was never forced to do anything.

PrideinthePack, when you replied NIU's reason for having a hazing policy is "Good PR," do you really believe that? So that's the only reason "hazing policies" were created.....how utterly naive.

NIUfilmaker, you really believe a court of law is worried about "placating the press or greek-haters?"....you clearly drew a low card when the logical thinking deck was being cut.

NIU005 and PrideinthePack, did you guys belong to a fraternity? What do you think not cooperating does for someone's standing in such an organization?
zdsmith has the courage to note that "social pressures can be a huge deal," but that doesn't matter in your thinking unless someone's "tied to a chair."
As huskiebob notes, "you could make a strong case that they got off easy."
Perhaps you guys are aware there are laws that can hold bar owners or bartenders liable for someone over-consuming? Substitute "fraternity" and "brothers" and the law still applies. Not one person considered the number of rooms, questions, etc. and multiplied that by the alcohol in a shot and figured that could eventually get dangerous?
The only thing sadder than this situation -- for everyone, the parents who lost a son and the fraternity members whose lifes are now permanently affected -- is how callous you guys can be. Seriously, hope none of you lose a family member or ever make a decision that conflicts with a law.

(05-09-2015 05:35 PM)PrideinthePack Wrote:  

(05-09-2015 03:41 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  A grown ass man downs alcohol for HIS own purposes and others are to be blamed? No one tied him to a chair and water boarded him with alcohol. He decided to pledge that fraternity, he decided to consume that alcohol, many of us have over indulged and did not die. Sorry he died, but the primary reason he died was because of his actions and beliefs.

Exactly. He was never forced to do anything.

You both have clearly never pledge as a Pike. I have. He didn't know what was coming and to say he had a choice is a joke. Tragic, but someone has to be held accountable and to blame the kid is weak!

"Grown ass man", please. More like an inexperienced kid that fell victim to stupid tradition. You're ******* idiots to think he did it to himself.

UINIU57 made great points.

What is the difference being over served by a libel bartender and a frat shoving drinks down your throat? And yes, that's what they did. They didn't wake up and decide independently they were going to do this that da, didn't act on their own. I know there is a love to protect your Greek system, but had it occurred to a family member, child I am sure you would all sit by and say it was their fault. Let's be real. Some good attorney w/ money did a good job getting pretty lean sentence.

And I could only imagine what the sentiment would be if it was a Toledo or moreover a UI frat. Some would be calling for life in prison.

(05-10-2015 10:17 AM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  UINIU57 made great points.

What is the difference being over served by a libel bartender and a frat shoving drinks down your throat? And yes, that's what they did. They didn't wake up and decide independently they were going to do this that da, didn't act on their own. I know there is a love to protect your Greek system, but had it occurred to a family member, child I am sure you would all sit by and say it was their fault. Let's be real. Some good attorney w/ money did a good job getting pretty lean sentence.

And I could only imagine what the sentiment would be if it was a Toledo or moreover a UI frat. Some would be calling for life in prison.

The Greek system can be outstanding or human behavior at its lowest.

(05-10-2015 09:40 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(05-09-2015 05:35 PM)PrideinthePack Wrote:  

(05-09-2015 03:41 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  A grown ass man downs alcohol for HIS own purposes and others are to be blamed? No one tied him to a chair and water boarded him with alcohol. He decided to pledge that fraternity, he decided to consume that alcohol, many of us have over indulged and did not die. Sorry he died, but the primary reason he died was because of his actions and beliefs.

Exactly. He was never forced to do anything.

PrideinthePack, when you replied NIU's reason for having a hazing policy is "Good PR," do you really believe that? So that's the only reason "hazing policies" were created.....how utterly naive.

NIUfilmaker, you really believe a court of law is worried about "placating the press or greek-haters?"....you clearly drew a low card when the logical thinking deck was being cut.

NIU005 and PrideinthePack, did you guys belong to a fraternity? What do you think not cooperating does for someone's standing in such an organization?
zdsmith has the courage to note that "social pressures can be a huge deal," but that doesn't matter in your thinking unless someone's "tied to a chair."
As huskiebob notes, "you could make a strong case that they got off easy."
Perhaps you guys are aware there are laws that can hold bar owners or bartenders liable for someone over-consuming? Substitute "fraternity" and "brothers" and the law still applies. Not one person considered the number of rooms, questions, etc. and multiplied that by the alcohol in a shot and figured that could eventually get dangerous?
The only thing sadder than this situation -- for everyone, the parents who lost a son and the fraternity members whose lifes are now permanently affected -- is how callous you guys can be. Seriously, hope none of you lose a family member or ever make a decision that conflicts with a law.

Terrible example. The bar is liable if they use neglect while serving. That does apply to a guy who didn't know his limits.

first off what a sad situation, never want to see this anywhere. crazy to think about, considering lived on greek row at niu. there are a few things to consider though. the kid did have a choice to get involved. but this choice was not fully understood. he may not have been experienced with drinking alcohol, and didnt know what was too much, too fast. there needs to be people accountable for the guys when there are events going on, sober monitors, etc. it is up to the brothers to realize a bad situation and resolve it. this didnt happen.

we have all been to parties back in high school and college when there is "that guy" at a party that is too messed up and is shaqtin a fool, whether it be being loud and obnoxious or vomiting and incoherent. but there are usually friends and people around to help out

every year almost at every big college there are kids who drink too much and get in bad situations. very unfortunate event, hope to not see it again.

As someone who was an officer with a fraternity chapter at NIU, the Pikes, and the national fraternity, got off really easy in this case.

Not saying this is true with all frats, but the national leadership of my fraternity made a big deal about not hazing and made a concerted effort to root it out and stop it before it began. There's a broad anti-hazing policy in place, for legal and educational purposes, and all members are educated frequently in hazing related matters and the potential consequences of said actions. My guess would be that the NIU Pikes didn't receive this education, if at all.

Those that would discount peer pressure's effect on this case are gravely underestimating the mind of a freshmen fraternity pledge.

First off, they're freshmen. Anyone saying that a 19-year old first-year college student is a "grown-ass man" hasn't been around enough freshmen to know that in most cases, they're not. It's their first year on campus and likely their first time living outside of their parents' house. There's a lot that needs to be learned as a freshmen and in a lot of instances they rely on fellow students, particularly upper classmen to give them guidance.

Second, a fraternity pledge owes his potential membership to those that are already members. The idea of a secret brotherhood, in which only a few are privy to certain secrets of membership, is a powerful motivational and psychological factor in why a lot of people choose to join frats. Their fate as potential fraternity members rests in the hands of those that are around them, and there is a tremendous amount of responsibility on the part of the current members, that goes with this. Pledges don't know the fraternity secrets, don't know what goes on during the pledge process, haven't done this as an active member in which they are privy to what goes on behind the scenes and the reasons these pledge activities are undertaken. They rely on the current members, who they've put their trust in, who need to be educated by the national fraternity on what they should do and what they should not do during said process, to guide them through this.

If you're a college freshmen, away from home for an extended period for the first time, who truly desires to join a secret brotherhood, who has put their trust in those that have gone through this process previously, and you are told that in order to join this brotherhood that you want more than anything at the moment, you need to drink this much booze, more often than not, the pledge is going to do it because he trusts the current members who have done this previously and come out alright on the other end of it.

Lastly, and this is key for me, what in the hell was the significance of consuming that much alcohol in such a short amount of time to the NIU Pike chapter? Was it part of some secret that the fraternity holds dear, or some secret language that can only be understood after consuming a vast quantity of alcohol?