(05-04-2015 12:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 09:25 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 12:49 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 08:09 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Wealth has to be earned, not spread.

Do you really believe the US is anywhere near a meritocracy?

I do. Do you believe that you've earned your money?

If I can be honest, I think you just believe that because your ideology tells you to. We all know people whose relative success had little else to do with them being born to the right parents, and that's well supported by data.

Of course people "born to the right parents" have a leg up on others. Is that not common sense? I don't need statistics or studies to prove that to me. It's seen EVERY day in high schools, universities and at work.

I know plenty of people, including myself who have done very good for themselves considering their upbringing. You seem like a fairly smart guy in terms of book sense at the very least. Are you from a privileged upbringing?

She's right for all the wrong reasons.

(05-04-2015 12:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 12:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 09:25 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 12:49 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 08:09 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Wealth has to be earned, not spread.

Do you really believe the US is anywhere near a meritocracy?

I do. Do you believe that you've earned your money?

If I can be honest, I think you just believe that because your ideology tells you to. We all know people whose relative success had little else to do with them being born to the right parents, and that's well supported by data.

Of course people "born to the right parents" have a leg up on others. Is that not common sense? I don't need statistics or studies to prove that to me. It's seen EVERY day in high schools, universities and at work.

I know plenty of people, including myself who have done very good for themselves considering their upbringing. You seem like a fairly smart guy in terms of book sense at the very least. Are you from a privileged upbringing?

Um, kinda-sorta. I did not come from any sort of family money, but we were well enough off and I was given a very good education due to my mother teaching at one of the better private schools in the area, which allowed me to go there free of charge. Though I would absolutely say I was positively blessed for the parents I had, they were both committed and loving to a degree I still find inspiring.

And I think you might want to look at those charts closer. We all know kids with wealthier parents do better, and I think to a minor extent we can accept that, but this is a pretty drastic difference that I think more people need to see. We're supposed to be the land of opportunity, but in reality, it seems we're falling short on that promise.

Your graph comparing the countries doesn't mean very much without knowing where the average citizen starts. We trail in "many of the key areas that influence".... We've discussed this before and I've come to actually agree there. Without knowing their starting points and actual outcomes it means very little.

I'm upper middle class right now. I came from lower middle class. My father and mother came from somewhere between poverty and lower class.

I could tell you a lot of stories based on anecdotal evidence but you wouldn't be interested since I can't put a number on it. I've got plenty of friends and relatives that have had similar experiences. For example, all of my maternal grandmother's children or grandchildren are in a higher social class (some SIGNIFICANTLY higher) now than she experienced all through her life.

That is probably the most ridiculous chart I've ever seen.

From 2006.

Measured in unknown increments of 1, 2, and 3 lol.

No source.

Re: the graph.

What key areas?
Who is measuring them?
What are the metrics?
What is the source?
What has happened since 2006?
What measures would address the alleged problem, and how?

I have no idea whether this is a meaningful graph or not, and no way from the information given to make a determination.
The flag symbols are kinda cute, but that's about it for significance.

(05-04-2015 12:27 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 12:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 12:06 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 09:25 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 12:49 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Do you really believe the US is anywhere near a meritocracy?

I do. Do you believe that you've earned your money?

If I can be honest, I think you just believe that because your ideology tells you to. We all know people whose relative success had little else to do with them being born to the right parents, and that's well supported by data.

Of course people "born to the right parents" have a leg up on others. Is that not common sense? I don't need statistics or studies to prove that to me. It's seen EVERY day in high schools, universities and at work.

I know plenty of people, including myself who have done very good for themselves considering their upbringing. You seem like a fairly smart guy in terms of book sense at the very least. Are you from a privileged upbringing?

Um, kinda-sorta. I did not come from any sort of family money, but we were well enough off and I was given a very good education due to my mother teaching at one of the better private schools in the area, which allowed me to go there free of charge. Though I would absolutely say I was positively blessed for the parents I had, they were both committed and loving to a degree I still find inspiring.

And I think you might want to look at those charts closer. We all know kids with wealthier parents do better, and I think to a minor extent we can accept that, but this is a pretty drastic difference that I think more people need to see. We're supposed to be the land of opportunity, but in reality, it seems we're falling short on that promise.

I'll just add that since around 70% of the adults in the US never graduate with a college degree - what is society doing for those 70% besides trying to push every one along the college track? We are p!ssing a ton of our education money down the drain and not preparing kids for life.

While it certainly helps to get a college degree, it shouldn't be a requirement to live in the middle class - and for many, it's not.

An aside, why doesn't it surprise me the UFC was private school educated - maybe that's why he knows everything?

(05-04-2015 03:22 PM)Crebman Wrote:  I'll just add that since around 70% of the adults in the US never graduate with a college degree - what is society doing for those 70% besides trying to push every one along the college track? We are p!ssing a ton of our education money down the drain and not preparing kids for life.

While it certainly helps to get a college degree, it shouldn't be a requirement to live in the middle class - and for many, it's not.

An aside, why doesn't it surprise me the UFC was private school educated - maybe that's why he knows everything?

The problem is kids going to school for useless degrees. Give me a 2 year tech Or trade degree over most liberal arts degree any day. We're going to have a shortage of qualified tech / trade folks all over.

My grandparents barely had a HS diploma.
My parents have a HS diploma and my dad has an Associates of Science from a JUCO where he played ball.
I got an AAS and a Bachelor's of Science.

I hope my kid(s) do better.. I think as people improve their stations in life their kids lives get better. I damn sure don't want my youngen to be spoiled.. I think the lessons I learned growing up are the same that he/she/they will have to learn as well.