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Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
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swardy76 Offline
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Post: #1
Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
Looking at the top 100 recruits for the class of 2011, the SEC dominates:

Code:
B1G            11    Average rank    57.8
B12            13    Average rank    51.3
ACC            15    Average rank    44.6
Notre Dame      6    Average rank    51.5
PAC            19    Average rank    59.2
SEC            36    Average rank    45.7

All the other conferences are fairly close together.

But when you look at the draft results, the ACC (and PAC) have much better results developing their recruits.

I have a couple theories:

1) The Typical ACC recruit is a better student and better prepared for the next level. They have higher SATs and GPAs and they take real classes and graduate at higher rates.

2) The demands of the B1G, B12, and SEC on football players results in more injuries, burnout, and drop outs.

The bottom line - The ACC does a better job preparing and protecting their athletes. Our athletic budgets, TV contracts, and stadium attendance may not rank as high, but the ACC is doing something right to be so well represented in the NFL.
05-03-2015 09:38 AM
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green Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
(05-03-2015 09:38 AM)swardy76 Wrote:  Looking at the top 100 recruits for the class of 2011, the SEC dominates

But when you look at the draft results

bottom line the ACC is doing something right to be so well represented in the NFL.





perhaps, the recruiting rankings are wrong ...
ah ha ...

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05-03-2015 01:11 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
(05-03-2015 09:38 AM)swardy76 Wrote:  Looking at the top 100 recruits for the class of 2011, the SEC dominates:

Code:
B1G            11    Average rank    57.8
B12            13    Average rank    51.3
ACC            15    Average rank    44.6
Notre Dame      6    Average rank    51.5
PAC            19    Average rank    59.2
SEC            36    Average rank    45.7

All the other conferences are fairly close together.

But when you look at the draft results, the ACC (and PAC) have much better results developing their recruits.

I have a couple theories:

1) The Typical ACC recruit is a better student and better prepared for the next level. They have higher SATs and GPAs and they take real classes and graduate at higher rates.

2) The demands of the B1G, B12, and SEC on football players results in more injuries, burnout, and drop outs.

The bottom line - The ACC does a better job preparing and protecting their athletes. Our athletic budgets, TV contracts, and stadium attendance may not rank as high, but the ACC is doing something right to be so well represented in the NFL.

Theory #1: I offer you U.N.C.'s bogus classes, bogus curriculum, & falsified grades. I traveled the Southeast for nearly 2 decades and followed up on and reported violations. Only Georgia Tech can make a claim of being above anything that any other ACC and SEC school has done with regards to recruiting shenanigans. You can believe this myth if you would like but it is just that, a myth. And for the Big 12 guys who claim to be above it....S.M.U. and the old SWC where every school was much worse than the simple buying of athletes and giving of favors that were the old method of operation in the SEC and ACC. As for the Old Big 8 schools Nebraska and Oklahoma were far from saints. Just think Barry Switzer and the abolishing of athletic dorms for how scandalous that time period was. You young kids have no idea of what happened before 2000, or in some cases before 1990.

Theory #2: If this were true why would anyone play in the SEC or PAC?

The simple truth here is climate and demographics. California and Arizona have a great climate for all sports. The Southeast and most of the Southwest do as well. With the exception of California the majority of these areas are not affluent. They aren't poor, but hardly are they as affluent as the Northeast, parts of the Northern Midwest, or parts of the Northern Atlantic Coast. The loose translation here is that middle class and poor kids are permitted to play contact sports in greater numbers percentage wise than affluent kids. While this is not a determining factor it nevertheless cuts into the % of kids from a region playing football. Add the weather into the equation and the shifting of the population to the Sunbelt areas of the country and the rest is just a numbers game. So annually you will have larger numbers of good athletes to choose from in the Southeast, Southwest, and California and Arizona. After that the reason for distinction would be past success in placing those athletes into professional leagues.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2015 01:32 PM by JRsec.)
05-03-2015 01:25 PM
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green Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
(05-03-2015 01:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The simple truth here is climate and demographics.

[Image: CECyBQUVAAE9Cxr.jpg:large]

Florida (39) and Georgia (30) put the most former high school players in this year's draft.
-- Craig Sager II @CraigSagerJr

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05-03-2015 01:57 PM
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WakeForestRanger Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
Georgia Tech was the only one? So you're saying Vandy, Duke and Wake were just as guilty.
05-03-2015 02:41 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
(05-03-2015 02:41 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Georgia Tech was the only one? So you're saying Vandy, Duke and Wake were just as guilty.

Back in the day Vandy and Wake didn't break rules for football players per se. In basketball they were cleaner than most, but not entirely. I just never found any dirt on Tech. And to be honest nobody looked really carefully at Wake or Vandy anyway. The concentration was on football from my perspective and in the area I was working North Carolina was a little out of my range unless they were recruiting in South Carolina or even deeper into the Southeast. The area was heavily recruited by Oklahoma, Nebraska, most of the SWC, the SEC schools, and the North Carolina and Virginia football programs in addition to the rest of the ACC football programs. Remember B.C., Pitt, and Syracuse were not part of that mix. Put everyone else in the mix including the Canes and that was cast of characters. And listen the dirt was everywhere. Test taking, bribes, political pressure, jobs for family members, cars, you name it, it was happening. Things are different now. The level of corruption is much more institutionalized than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Now the jobs might come from state officials for extended family members of the recruit. The political involvement now is more extensive and partly because profits for the schools can help reduce pressure upon the state for increased expenditures, and that in part because the athletics programs in some states actually provide some income to state pension plans. I think the schools themselves now cover what they know will be misdeeds by having a team of legal advisers for athletics programs.

But the one thing that has not changed is that whether your game is basketball, football, or even baseball, violations of NCAA rules are happening and happening frequently and by everyone who intends to contend in at least whatever sport your school has emphasis in. These message board posters who talk about their innocence are deeply naive.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2015 03:54 PM by JRsec.)
05-03-2015 03:43 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
#1. No. Definitely not.

#2. That's a stretch.
05-03-2015 10:32 PM
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swardy76 Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
Thanks for all the responses.

#1: The ACC academically is arguably the strongest conference in the country. I've read on this board before that the SAT requirements and overall academic requirements have made it harder to recruit. BC and Duke graduate 92% of their football players. I think the entire BC starting offensive line was in grad school this year. All I'm pointing out is that this has an effect on both the pool of athletes that are recruited and the quality of the education the athlete receives.

#2 The intensity of the programs are less physically demanding. For example the ACC ranks third behind the SEC and B12 in terms of lineman size. The ACC is also injured less. In this analysis of injuries by conference and pace of play, the ACC again ranks third behind the SEC and B1G. (Interestingly the average size of a B12 player was the smallest and injuries were lowest.)

Finally to JRsec, the talent pool certainly helps the ACC and SEC and based on this analysis, the SEC has an edge. But, my point was the SEC doesn't develop their talent. The SEC recruits far more ranked high schoolers but the ACC produces almost the same number of NFL players.

But an even more compelling analysis may be this. Here the ACC has 8 teams of the top 23 in terms of return on investment in the NFL. I read this as the ACC is a much safer pick than the SEC with 4 teams (including A&M and MO), the B12 - only OK ST, the B1G - Purdue and Maryland, or the P12 - UCLA and ASU.
05-04-2015 12:01 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
Honestly, I think it's all about recruiting. I think the ACC recruits better than it gets credit for, considering how bad the football was for a decade. And perception of the ACC's recruiting was definitely hampered by having several schools that rated near the bottom in the likes of Syracuse, Duke, Wake, BC. But a couple years ago I went through ESPN's classes from the time since they started rating classes...the ACC had clearly more top 25 recruiting classes than anyone besides the SEC. Just like draft picks.

Now, even those traditionally poor recruiting schools are doing better. In 2015, 247 rated Syracuse as the conferences worst class at #64. That's not good...but the Big 12 had two teams worse than that (that's right...20% of their conference recruited worse than Syracuse), and the PAC and B1G each had a team rated lower. So even the floor is coming up in the ACC.

There is still a lot room for recruiting improvement, but I think the ACC has the second most draft picks because they're recruiting the second most talent.
05-04-2015 02:29 PM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
(05-04-2015 02:29 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  Honestly, I think it's all about recruiting. I think the ACC recruits better than it gets credit for, considering how bad the football was for a decade. And perception of the ACC's recruiting was definitely hampered by having several schools that rated near the bottom in the likes of Syracuse, Duke, Wake, BC. But a couple years ago I went through ESPN's classes from the time since they started rating classes...the ACC had clearly more top 25 recruiting classes than anyone besides the SEC. Just like draft picks.

Now, even those traditionally poor recruiting schools are doing better. In 2015, 247 rated Syracuse as the conferences worst class at #64. That's not good...but the Big 12 had two teams worse than that (that's right...20% of their conference recruited worse than Syracuse), and the PAC and B1G each had a team rated lower. So even the floor is coming up in the ACC.

There is still a lot room for recruiting improvement, but I think the ACC has the second most draft picks because they're recruiting the second most talent.

Which has been the contention of some on these boards for quite a while now. The issue seems to be coaching (and not just the head coach but assistant coaches as well), which speaks more to investment probably than the ability to recruit.

If ACC teams invest more, then the recruiting will likely be even better. Maybe not quite to SEC level, but enough to put a distance between the ACC and the other conferences.

Of course, for some, it's SEC level or the conference is a bust.

Cheers,
Neil
05-04-2015 02:39 PM
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Lou_C Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
(05-04-2015 02:39 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 02:29 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  Honestly, I think it's all about recruiting. I think the ACC recruits better than it gets credit for, considering how bad the football was for a decade. And perception of the ACC's recruiting was definitely hampered by having several schools that rated near the bottom in the likes of Syracuse, Duke, Wake, BC. But a couple years ago I went through ESPN's classes from the time since they started rating classes...the ACC had clearly more top 25 recruiting classes than anyone besides the SEC. Just like draft picks.

Now, even those traditionally poor recruiting schools are doing better. In 2015, 247 rated Syracuse as the conferences worst class at #64. That's not good...but the Big 12 had two teams worse than that (that's right...20% of their conference recruited worse than Syracuse), and the PAC and B1G each had a team rated lower. So even the floor is coming up in the ACC.

There is still a lot room for recruiting improvement, but I think the ACC has the second most draft picks because they're recruiting the second most talent.

Which has been the contention of some on these boards for quite a while now. The issue seems to be coaching (and not just the head coach but assistant coaches as well), which speaks more to investment probably than the ability to recruit.

If ACC teams invest more, then the recruiting will likely be even better. Maybe not quite to SEC level, but enough to put a distance between the ACC and the other conferences.

Of course, for some, it's SEC level or the conference is a bust.

Cheers,
Neil

Yeah, I really think it's coaching...head coaching and staff. ACC programs just put up with more mediocrity...and there isn't one program that can absolutely claim that they haven't in the past. Maybe Louisville? Hell, probably Wake Forest made the biggest recent statement about that.

I believe FSU and Clemson are on the right page...they've seen the benefits of not slipping back...I really don't see either of them wandering in the woods for 10+ years again.

I think Louisville hiring Petrino back, warts and all, tells you where their mind is.

Wake, for whatever it's worth, has made their position clear, that they have expectations.

I think UVA has made it clear they are NOT with the program.

The rest of the conference is on the clock. Are they with Louisville and Wake Forest (??LOL??), or are they with Virginia? If we see Golden and Fedora jettisoned after a 7-8 win season...and we see what kind of replacements they can pull, we'll see if the ACC can take the step from being "not clearly the worst" football conference, to right there with where the PAC is, sniping at the SEC's heels.

These draft picks are making an impression on recruits for sure, but don't think potential coaches aren't seeing it as well. Jobs like Miami, North Carolina, and Virginia Tech could be a pretty attractive destination, as long as the money isn't clearly substandard.

Let's face it...there's maybe ten final destination jobs in college football, and that's being generous considering the call of the NFL. Everyone is coaching for their next job. Those teams offer the chance to work with elite athletes in a conference that's not the meat grinder of the SEC. I think as long as ACC schools don't get short pockets, there is no reason why they can't land good replacements.
05-04-2015 04:18 PM
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Maize Offline
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RE: Why does the ACC represent so well in the NFL Draft
Louisville slipped under Kragthorpe...Jurich pulled the plug quickly...rest assured as long as Tom Jurich is the AD UofL will strive to be the best.
05-05-2015 10:37 AM
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