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Huskie_Jon Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-04-2015 04:00 PM)BobL Wrote:  Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?

Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.
05-05-2015 12:59 PM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-04-2015 03:16 PM)Turner4Heisman Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 03:12 PM)Max Power Wrote:  The poor and working class in the form of health care, shelter, food, education and earned income tax credits. Yes those Wall Street execs with ten million dollar parachutes really earned every penny didn't they?

so just to clarify are you in favor of raising your own personal taxes, or are you just concerned with giving others money away?

I am not saying their incomes are justified or not justified, I just do not understand how you personally can claim what they have or have not 'earned'.

And where is that line then of who has not 'earned' their own incomes and should in fact give it to someone else?

I'm in favor of raising my own taxes, sure. Not to the degree of billionaires of course, but maybe a couple points.

Here's the deal. There's nobody in America who had completely "earned" their income. If they use the roads, they're benefitting from all of our tax dollars. If they attended public school, they're benefitting from all of our tax dollars. If they're selling goods to people who have benefitted from public education, or employ people who went to public schools, or go to sleep at night safe and healthy because of the work of the US military and police and firefighters and the Clean Air and Pure Food and Drug Acts, or have taken advantage in any way from the very extensive, beneficial social fabric created by the American people then they haven't "built" it completely on their own. On the other hand, if you were born and spent your whole life in Ethiopia and built a billion dollar empire I might be more inclined to agree you and you alone "built" it. Otherwise, it's not completely "earned."

I know Warren and Obama said essentially this and took flack from it. But they're right. It's not in any sense immoral to tax income.
05-05-2015 06:30 PM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-05-2015 12:59 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 04:00 PM)BobL Wrote:  Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?

Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.

The Declaration of Independence isn't law. The Constitution is the law of the land, and it enumerates the rights of everyone, and nothing Bernie is proposing violates them.

Most Europeans emigrated here before they all had developed the democratic socialist fabrics post WWII.
05-05-2015 06:35 PM
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niuguy Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-05-2015 12:59 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 04:00 PM)BobL Wrote:  Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?

Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda1...u.be&t=125
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 10:45 PM by niuguy.)
05-05-2015 10:42 PM
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Huskie_Jon Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-05-2015 06:30 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 03:16 PM)Turner4Heisman Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 03:12 PM)Max Power Wrote:  The poor and working class in the form of health care, shelter, food, education and earned income tax credits. Yes those Wall Street execs with ten million dollar parachutes really earned every penny didn't they?

so just to clarify are you in favor of raising your own personal taxes, or are you just concerned with giving others money away?

I am not saying their incomes are justified or not justified, I just do not understand how you personally can claim what they have or have not 'earned'.

And where is that line then of who has not 'earned' their own incomes and should in fact give it to someone else?

I'm in favor of raising my own taxes, sure. Not to the degree of billionaires of course, but maybe a couple points.

Here's the deal. There's nobody in America who had completely "earned" their income. If they use the roads, they're benefitting from all of our tax dollars. If they attended public school, they're benefitting from all of our tax dollars. If they're selling goods to people who have benefitted from public education, or employ people who went to public schools, or go to sleep at night safe and healthy because of the work of the US military and police and firefighters and the Clean Air and Pure Food and Drug Acts, or have taken advantage in any way from the very extensive, beneficial social fabric created by the American people then they haven't "built" it completely on their own. On the other hand, if you were born and spent your whole life in Ethiopia and built a billion dollar empire I might be more inclined to agree you and you alone "built" it. Otherwise, it's not completely "earned."

I know Warren and Obama said essentially this and took flack from it. But they're right. It's not in any sense immoral to tax income.

YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT! Sombody else made that happen! Now give us more money, because we went over budget again. Don't be greedy!

What the statist politicians do is break your legs, then throw you a crutch and say, "See! You would not be able to walk were it not for the government. YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!".

But you can't criticise the government, because they fund the police. Then, the government orders the police to stand down while Fergusen or Baltimore is getting looted. They will just raise taxes to pay for the damage.

Let them loot, it’s only property.
-Democratic Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake
05-05-2015 10:43 PM
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niuguy Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-05-2015 10:43 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 06:30 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 03:16 PM)Turner4Heisman Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 03:12 PM)Max Power Wrote:  The poor and working class in the form of health care, shelter, food, education and earned income tax credits. Yes those Wall Street execs with ten million dollar parachutes really earned every penny didn't they?

so just to clarify are you in favor of raising your own personal taxes, or are you just concerned with giving others money away?

I am not saying their incomes are justified or not justified, I just do not understand how you personally can claim what they have or have not 'earned'.

And where is that line then of who has not 'earned' their own incomes and should in fact give it to someone else?

I'm in favor of raising my own taxes, sure. Not to the degree of billionaires of course, but maybe a couple points.

Here's the deal. There's nobody in America who had completely "earned" their income. If they use the roads, they're benefitting from all of our tax dollars. If they attended public school, they're benefitting from all of our tax dollars. If they're selling goods to people who have benefitted from public education, or employ people who went to public schools, or go to sleep at night safe and healthy because of the work of the US military and police and firefighters and the Clean Air and Pure Food and Drug Acts, or have taken advantage in any way from the very extensive, beneficial social fabric created by the American people then they haven't "built" it completely on their own. On the other hand, if you were born and spent your whole life in Ethiopia and built a billion dollar empire I might be more inclined to agree you and you alone "built" it. Otherwise, it's not completely "earned."

I know Warren and Obama said essentially this and took flack from it. But they're right. It's not in any sense immoral to tax income.

YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT! Sombody else made that happen! Now give us more money, because we went over budget again. Don't be greedy!

What the statist politicians do is break your legs, then throw you a crutch and say, "See! You would not be able to walk were it not for the government. YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!".

But you can't criticise the government, because they fund the police. Then, the government orders the police to stand down while Fergusen or Baltimore is getting looted. They will just raise taxes to pay for the damage.

Let them loot, it’s only property.
-Democratic Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/you-did...-unedited/
05-05-2015 10:47 PM
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Huskie_Jon Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-05-2015 10:47 PM)niuguy Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 10:43 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 06:30 PM)Max Power Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 03:16 PM)Turner4Heisman Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 03:12 PM)Max Power Wrote:  The poor and working class in the form of health care, shelter, food, education and earned income tax credits. Yes those Wall Street execs with ten million dollar parachutes really earned every penny didn't they?

so just to clarify are you in favor of raising your own personal taxes, or are you just concerned with giving others money away?

I am not saying their incomes are justified or not justified, I just do not understand how you personally can claim what they have or have not 'earned'.

And where is that line then of who has not 'earned' their own incomes and should in fact give it to someone else?

I'm in favor of raising my own taxes, sure. Not to the degree of billionaires of course, but maybe a couple points.

Here's the deal. There's nobody in America who had completely "earned" their income. If they use the roads, they're benefitting from all of our tax dollars. If they attended public school, they're benefitting from all of our tax dollars. If they're selling goods to people who have benefitted from public education, or employ people who went to public schools, or go to sleep at night safe and healthy because of the work of the US military and police and firefighters and the Clean Air and Pure Food and Drug Acts, or have taken advantage in any way from the very extensive, beneficial social fabric created by the American people then they haven't "built" it completely on their own. On the other hand, if you were born and spent your whole life in Ethiopia and built a billion dollar empire I might be more inclined to agree you and you alone "built" it. Otherwise, it's not completely "earned."

I know Warren and Obama said essentially this and took flack from it. But they're right. It's not in any sense immoral to tax income.

YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT! Sombody else made that happen! Now give us more money, because we went over budget again. Don't be greedy!

What the statist politicians do is break your legs, then throw you a crutch and say, "See! You would not be able to walk were it not for the government. YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!".

But you can't criticise the government, because they fund the police. Then, the government orders the police to stand down while Fergusen or Baltimore is getting looted. They will just raise taxes to pay for the damage.

Let them loot, it’s only property.
-Democratic Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/you-did...-unedited/


or in summary: YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT! SOMEONE ELSE MADE THAT HAPPEN!

But if you look at it in context, what he really said was:

Blah, blah, blah, bow down and worship the government.

YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT! SOMEONE ELSE MADE THAT HAPPEN!

Blah, blah, blah, common good, pay your fair share, each according to his needs.
05-06-2015 09:14 AM
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BobL Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-05-2015 10:42 PM)niuguy Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 12:59 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 04:00 PM)BobL Wrote:  Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?

Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda1...u.be&t=125

If only we had politicians with the balls to say that...Michelle Obama got lambasted when she said:

“For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment.”

I am certainly proud to be an American, but America has not done much of anything(as a country) in the last 40 years to make me proud of it. There is a huge difference.
05-06-2015 12:45 PM
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Policiious Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-05-2015 12:59 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 04:00 PM)BobL Wrote:  Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?

Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.

You really need to read 18th and 19th Century European history. Citizens left those nations because of unchecked power of Monarchy's and the Oligarchs and Nobles who supported them. Add to that the lust for more land and power by Napoleon, the Prussian/German and the Russian Czars.

Now that most of the formerly Communist run Central and Eastern European nations are free, their citizens are not moving to the US when they leave their homelands they are going to Ireland, Denmark, Germany and the UK. So much so that there are more Roman Catholics attending Sunday Church Services in the UK than the Church of England. US will no longer be getting the lion's share of European immigrants now or in the future.
05-06-2015 01:03 PM
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Dog Fan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-06-2015 12:45 PM)BobL Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 10:42 PM)niuguy Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 12:59 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 04:00 PM)BobL Wrote:  Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?

Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda1...u.be&t=125

If only we had politicians with the balls to say that...Michelle Obama got lambasted when she said:

“For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment.”

I am certainly proud to be an American, but America has not done much of anything(as a country) in the last 40 years to make me proud of it. There is a huge difference.

There are two times I have not been proud to be an American. The first time was under the presidency of Jimmy Carter (and I am still repulsed by that POS). The second time is under the presidency of Barack Obama. (Clinton is a close third.)
05-06-2015 01:03 PM
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Dog Fan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-06-2015 01:03 PM)Policiious Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 12:59 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 04:00 PM)BobL Wrote:  Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?

Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.

You really need to read 18th and 19th Century European history. Citizens left those nations because of unchecked power of Monarchy's and the Oligarchs and Nobles who supported them. Add to that the lust for more land and power by Napoleon, the Prussian/German and the Russian Czars.

Now that most of the formerly Communist run Central and Eastern European nations are free, their citizens are not moving to the US when they leave their homelands they are going to Ireland, Denmark, Germany and the UK. So much so that there are more Roman Catholics attending Sunday Church Services in the UK than the Church of England. US will no longer be getting the lion's share of European immigrants now or in the future.

That's okay. The Middle Eastern Muslims will more than make up for the European immigrants. Allahu Akbar!
05-06-2015 01:05 PM
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BobL Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-06-2015 01:03 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 12:45 PM)BobL Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 10:42 PM)niuguy Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 12:59 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 04:00 PM)BobL Wrote:  Just curious, to all the conservatives out there....do you think there is another western democratic country as conservative as the US? If so which and why?

Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda1...u.be&t=125

If only we had politicians with the balls to say that...Michelle Obama got lambasted when she said:

“For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment.”

I am certainly proud to be an American, but America has not done much of anything(as a country) in the last 40 years to make me proud of it. There is a huge difference.

There are two times I have not been proud to be an American. The first time was under the presidency of Jimmy Carter (and I am still repulsed by that POS). The second time is under the presidency of Barack Obama. (Clinton is a close third.)

so when there is a democrat in the white house you are embarrassed to be an American..I was referring more to actions and accomplishments as a nation...you put it right on political party. wow, that's just sad.
05-07-2015 08:37 AM
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Dog Fan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-07-2015 08:37 AM)BobL Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 01:03 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 12:45 PM)BobL Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 10:42 PM)niuguy Wrote:  
(05-05-2015 12:59 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Someone tell BobL that only the US was established on the premises that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights", rather than just allowed whatever rights the Government is willing to grant them like the European socialist nations that Bernie and his leftist minions want to emulate. BobL has me on ignore. Contrary opinions frighten him.

The US Constitution has been an obstacle preventing the leftists from turning the US into another European nation. That's why Europeans emigrated to here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda1...u.be&t=125

If only we had politicians with the balls to say that...Michelle Obama got lambasted when she said:

“For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment.”

I am certainly proud to be an American, but America has not done much of anything(as a country) in the last 40 years to make me proud of it. There is a huge difference.

There are two times I have not been proud to be an American. The first time was under the presidency of Jimmy Carter (and I am still repulsed by that POS). The second time is under the presidency of Barack Obama. (Clinton is a close third.)

so when there is a democrat in the white house you are embarrassed to be an American..I was referring more to actions and accomplishments as a nation...you put it right on political party. wow, that's just sad.

No, sir. I put it on the actions of the person who happens to be a member of a particular party.
05-07-2015 08:43 AM
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Policiious Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
Dog Fan:No, sir. I put it on the actions of the person who happens to be a member of a particular party.

Well then trading Arms with drug dealers for hostages (Reagan) should make you sick.

Lying a nation into invading a nation that caused us no harm nor had intentions to cause us harm should make you sick (W)

Allowing the nation's financial sector to fall on it's face and collapse should make you sick (W)

No new taxes and then proceeded to raise taxes should make you sick (Reagan several times and Bush 41)
05-07-2015 10:30 AM
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Dog Fan Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Give 'Em Hell, Bernie
(05-07-2015 10:30 AM)Policiious Wrote:  Dog Fan:No, sir. I put it on the actions of the person who happens to be a member of a particular party.

Well then trading Arms with drug dealers for hostages (Reagan) should make you sick.

Lying a nation into invading a nation that caused us no harm nor had intentions to cause us harm should make you sick (W)

Allowing the nation's financial sector to fall on it's face and collapse should make you sick (W)

No new taxes and then proceeded to raise taxes should make you sick (Reagan several times and Bush 41)

You are correct. All your beliefs about the Republican Presidents make me sick.
05-07-2015 10:41 AM
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