(05-03-2015 03:13 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 02:32 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 02:13 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 12:14 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 09:49 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  Does take some of the starch out of the sails of those who claimed this past season that we had superior talent, but poor coaching on Tuberville's part.

I think that you are making a false premise. the fact that the team was poorly conditioned and could not tackle says a kit abiut coaching.

The lack of drafted players over the last couple years bears out my premise better than yours.

I disagree. In that case, uconn would have a better record Than the bearcats, since they had picks over the last couple of years.

You need to go back and read the original comment. How about our coaching is just better than UConn's?

From my perspective the premise was the lack of NfL draft picks resulted in our poor early performance. By contrast, UConn had NFL picks and still had a worse performance; therefore, the draft is not a good indicator of overall talent of a football team.

UC had more overall talent from 2006 to 2009 than they do now. UC also seems to recruit very good college players that don't fit the NFL mold. Bearcats have had much better QB play than UConn over the last decade or so which is one reason why the Bearcats are always good and Huskies are not.

In terms of UC coaches, Jones was my least favorite UC coach of the past two decades.

(05-03-2015 08:38 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  UC had more overall talent from 2006 to 2009 than they do now. UC also seems to recruit very good college players that don't fit the NFL mold. Bearcats have had much better QB play than UConn over the last decade or so which is one reason why the Bearcats are always good and Huskies are not.

In terms of UC coaches, Jones was my least favorite UC coach of the past two decades.

Agreed (I would even extend that out to 2011).

I made this point about a year or so ago, but a lot of Butch's recruits never made it here or was out the door 1-2 years later:

(2010) Cody Kater, Dyjuan Lewis, Roney Lozano, Robert Martin, Montrel Robinson;

(2011) Demetrius Alston, Rodriguez Coleman, Patrick Coyne, Chad Hannah, Daniel Murray, Trenier Orr, Carroll Phillips, Jameel Poteat, Akise Teague, Steven Weatherford;

(2012) Shakim Alonzo, Drake Bruns, Jonathan Burt, Errol Clarke, Bennie Coney, Alex Dale, Marcus Foster, Corey Griffin, Aaron Harris, Joey Jones, Ey'Shawn Mclain, Trenton Norvell, Caleb Stacey

A lot of the guys above were considered the crown jewels of their recruiting class (Lewis, Poteat, Teague, Clarke, Stacey). If Tuberville had not brought in the JUCO's and some quality young players we could have easily had losing seasons the past two years.

Stumbled across Nick Temple's twitter which implies he's headed to the Bengals!

(05-04-2015 12:19 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Stumbled across Nick Temple's twitter which implies he's headed to the Bengals!

He's getting a tryout, along with Jordan and Beard.

(05-03-2015 07:31 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 03:13 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 02:32 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 02:13 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 12:14 PM)rosewater Wrote:  I think that you are making a false premise. the fact that the team was poorly conditioned and could not tackle says a kit abiut coaching.

The lack of drafted players over the last couple years bears out my premise better than yours.

I disagree. In that case, uconn would have a better record Than the bearcats, since they had picks over the last couple of years.

You need to go back and read the original comment. How about our coaching is just better than UConn's?

From my perspective the premise was the lack of NfL draft picks resulted in our poor early performance. By contrast, UConn had NFL picks and still had a worse performance; therefore, the draft is not a good indicator of overall talent of a football team.

My point was that UC has had a 2 year drought in the NFL draft for the first time in about 20 years. That says the relative talent level has not been up to UC teams in the recent past. Seems like you're trying to cloud the issue with UConn.

One thing to add to the lack of NFL caliber talent: TT has been a broken record on the need for more speed on the roster since he arrived. If there's one thing that separates NFL caliber talent from middle of the road college talent, it's speed. In that regard, I'm not surprised at all that we haven't had an NFL draft pick in two years.

(05-03-2015 10:05 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 08:38 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  UC had more overall talent from 2006 to 2009 than they do now. UC also seems to recruit very good college players that don't fit the NFL mold. Bearcats have had much better QB play than UConn over the last decade or so which is one reason why the Bearcats are always good and Huskies are not.

In terms of UC coaches, Jones was my least favorite UC coach of the past two decades.

Agreed (I would even extend that out to 2011).

I made this point about a year or so ago, but a lot of Butch's recruits never made it here or was out the door 1-2 years later:

(2010) Cody Kater, Dyjuan Lewis, Roney Lozano, Robert Martin, Montrel Robinson;

(2011) Demetrius Alston, Rodriguez Coleman, Patrick Coyne, Chad Hannah, Daniel Murray, Trenier Orr, Carroll Phillips, Jameel Poteat, Akise Teague, Steven Weatherford;

(2012) Shakim Alonzo, Drake Bruns, Jonathan Burt, Errol Clarke, Bennie Coney, Alex Dale, Marcus Foster, Corey Griffin, Aaron Harris, Joey Jones, Ey'Shawn Mclain, Trenton Norvell, Caleb Stacey

A lot of the guys above were considered the crown jewels of their recruiting class (Lewis, Poteat, Teague, Clarke, Stacey). If Tuberville had not brought in the JUCO's and some quality young players we could have easily had losing seasons the past two years.

The 1-2 year thing is probably pretty common. I would guess that if you listed kids who did not make it to campus, left within 2 years by being kicked out, transferring or even completing eligibility as a 2 year juco, there would be a decent recruit turnover list under about any staff.

I do think Jones took a lot of flyers on risky recruits from a qualification standpoint. Stuff like Teague or the Juco LB last year nobody can predict unless they have a track record of that kind of behavior.

(05-04-2015 08:06 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 10:05 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 08:38 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  UC had more overall talent from 2006 to 2009 than they do now. UC also seems to recruit very good college players that don't fit the NFL mold. Bearcats have had much better QB play than UConn over the last decade or so which is one reason why the Bearcats are always good and Huskies are not.

In terms of UC coaches, Jones was my least favorite UC coach of the past two decades.

Agreed (I would even extend that out to 2011).

I made this point about a year or so ago, but a lot of Butch's recruits never made it here or was out the door 1-2 years later:

(2010) Cody Kater, Dyjuan Lewis, Roney Lozano, Robert Martin, Montrel Robinson;

(2011) Demetrius Alston, Rodriguez Coleman, Patrick Coyne, Chad Hannah, Daniel Murray, Trenier Orr, Carroll Phillips, Jameel Poteat, Akise Teague, Steven Weatherford;

(2012) Shakim Alonzo, Drake Bruns, Jonathan Burt, Errol Clarke, Bennie Coney, Alex Dale, Marcus Foster, Corey Griffin, Aaron Harris, Joey Jones, Ey'Shawn Mclain, Trenton Norvell, Caleb Stacey

A lot of the guys above were considered the crown jewels of their recruiting class (Lewis, Poteat, Teague, Clarke, Stacey). If Tuberville had not brought in the JUCO's and some quality young players we could have easily had losing seasons the past two years.

The 1-2 year thing is probably pretty common. I would guess that if you listed kids who did not make it to campus, left within 2 years by being kicked out, transferring or even completing eligibility as a 2 year juco, there would be a decent recruit turnover list under about any staff.

I do think Jones took a lot of flyers on risky recruits from a qualification standpoint. Stuff like Teague or the Juco LB last year nobody can predict unless they have a track record of that kind of behavior.

True but I think the attrition rate in 2011 and 2012 is particularly high.

(05-04-2015 08:00 AM)MickMack Wrote:  One thing to add to the lack of NFL caliber talent: TT has been a broken record on the need for more speed on the roster since he arrived. If there's one thing that separates NFL caliber talent from middle of the road college talent, it's speed. In that regard, I'm not surprised at all that we haven't had an NFL draft pick in two years.

I would include size as well-- particularly on defense. During the Dantonio/Kelly years we recruited defensive tackles that were 300 lbs, defensive ends who were 6'5+, and defensive backs who were taller than 6'0. Butch' defensive linemen were smaller and his dbs were shorter. They worked out well while they were here bug those measurables don't get you drafted.

(05-04-2015 08:35 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 08:00 AM)MickMack Wrote:  One thing to add to the lack of NFL caliber talent: TT has been a broken record on the need for more speed on the roster since he arrived. If there's one thing that separates NFL caliber talent from middle of the road college talent, it's speed. In that regard, I'm not surprised at all that we haven't had an NFL draft pick in two years.

I would include size as well-- particularly on defense. During the Dantonio/Kelly years we recruited defensive tackles that were 300 lbs, defensive ends who were 6'5+, and defensive backs who were taller than 6'0. Butch' defensive linemen were smaller and his dbs were shorter. They worked out well while they were here bug those measurables don't get you drafted.

The best DT in Dantonio's tenure (and arguably Kelly's), Terrill Byrd scoffs at that argument.

Byrd was a phenom. Too bad he never got a shot in the NFL.

(05-04-2015 08:59 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 08:35 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 08:00 AM)MickMack Wrote:  One thing to add to the lack of NFL caliber talent: TT has been a broken record on the need for more speed on the roster since he arrived. If there's one thing that separates NFL caliber talent from middle of the road college talent, it's speed. In that regard, I'm not surprised at all that we haven't had an NFL draft pick in two years.

I would include size as well-- particularly on defense. During the Dantonio/Kelly years we recruited defensive tackles that were 300 lbs, defensive ends who were 6'5+, and defensive backs who were taller than 6'0. Butch' defensive linemen were smaller and his dbs were shorter. They worked out well while they were here bug those measurables don't get you drafted.

The best DT in Dantonio's tenure (and arguably Kelly's), Terrill Byrd scoffs at that argument.

And the ones to make it to the NFL was 6'5 300 lb Derek Wolfe and 6'2 300 lb John Hughes.

The

Luc interview with "Finsiders"

Link

(05-04-2015 10:31 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 08:59 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 08:35 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 08:00 AM)MickMack Wrote:  One thing to add to the lack of NFL caliber talent: TT has been a broken record on the need for more speed on the roster since he arrived. If there's one thing that separates NFL caliber talent from middle of the road college talent, it's speed. In that regard, I'm not surprised at all that we haven't had an NFL draft pick in two years.

I would include size as well-- particularly on defense. During the Dantonio/Kelly years we recruited defensive tackles that were 300 lbs, defensive ends who were 6'5+, and defensive backs who were taller than 6'0. Butch' defensive linemen were smaller and his dbs were shorter. They worked out well while they were here bug those measurables don't get you drafted.

The best DT in Dantonio's tenure (and arguably Kelly's), Terrill Byrd scoffs at that argument.

And the ones to make it to the NFL was 6'5 300 lb Derek Wolfe and 6'2 300 lb John Hughes.

The

Byrd was a great college player, but I think Wolfe was the best Bearcat DT in the Kelly era.