(04-29-2015 03:15 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 03:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  12 million/13- 923,076 per school
12 million/14- 857,142 per school

so we're talking a difference of like 68k there per school.
for TV- lets say it's another 68k per school- roughly 12 million for the deal(may be a smidge more but not by much).
So a total of like 150-200k tops. Hardly hundreds of thousands. And definitely where it could be recovered in the home gates by the schools for basketball.

Please explain how a couple hundred thousand dollars could be made up, every year, in hoops gates, by inviting any program to the conference? Plus the extra program would only come to town every other year; and if the program isn't added, the revenue could be made up by inviting some other OOC opponent.

teams don't want to have OOC opponents in Jan/Feb. Period. Also you guys did travel partners which is a huge help with some of the groups. That goes away with only 13. Also taking a OOC game from December and having it Jan/Feb- you still have the same number of OOC games- and the gate you get from the Jan/Feb OOC game would be the exact same as you would get in Nov/Dec. So not that big of a help.

Thirteen SUCKS for scheduling.

If is mathematically impossible to play two divisions (or schedule groups if you toss divisions) without two schools in the same area skipping each other to get 8 games scheduled. Ask the MAC, been there done that.

In basketball (both flavors) someone has to have an open date on every league playing date. Someone always misses playing a home game on a Saturday because of the open date. Volleyball has to have an open game weekend (most leagues play two per weekend). Everyone has to miss a weekend with a baseball series or softball series, and soccer has to have open dates as well.

Unless you compress the schedule in basketball and soccer, it takes an extra week to play the league schedule in basketball and soccer compared to having 12 teams. 14 can play in the same amount of time as 13 because of the lack of need for open dates. No one wants to listen to coaches ***** about having to play teams coming off open dates. No one wants to try to find non-conference opponents for the weekend during league play.

(04-29-2015 03:22 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Math for sports fans.
Article indicates CUSA distributable income is roughly $2.3 million per.
Let's assume next TV deal is identical in dollars.
Staying at 13 makes it an extra $176,923 per school.
Going back to 14 makes it same as now except for the first two years when it goes up roughly $77k for the entry fee.
Going to 16 takes it down by $287,500 per year except for the first two years when it drops only $56,730
Let's take Marshall about median in CUSA revenue. What is $287,500 to Marshall? 1% of operating revenue.
We aren't talking any real money here. Replace one conference flight with a bus trip in football, men's and women's basketball, women's soccer, volleyball, baseball, and softball and your net travel savings will be around $350,000, more if you are also able to save on one meal per team.

Forego $287,500 in revenue to cut overhead by $350,000? No one does stupid crap like that because the fans don't care about what it does to the budget they want to tout how much the conference spit out to their school.

It is no accident JMU and MTSU AD's have name-dropped JMU and Liberty, they are looking at cutting overhead and using the money for things that impact competive ability.

Now what we don't know is what CUSA revenue will look like from July 1, 2016 forward because CUSA hasn't announced a TV deal nor has any talk leaked (even though there seems to be a UAB related leak weekly). Find out what the TV deal looks like and you'll know what CUSA is going to do next.

My money remains on taking USA, slightly better travel for much of the west, slightly worse for much of the east, but it is a crossover game so not as big of an impact on east. JMU and Liberty, non-starters unless CUSA goes to 16.

Thanks for the analysis however the foreone payment of ~$250K may only be 1% of the entire operating athletic budget, it represents more than 10% of the Conference pay-out.

And as the cost of supporting these athletes goes up, that extra $250k is going to come in handy.

Hard to imagine a scenario where UAB can come back even if they get an admin who wants to....which it doesnt look like they ever will. So they are gone.

CUSA is not really in danger of dying if they are raided so there is no real pressing need to replace them. But that is no guarantee they won't. Realignment has strange turns.

(04-29-2015 03:35 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 03:22 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Math for sports fans.
Article indicates CUSA distributable income is roughly $2.3 million per.
Let's assume next TV deal is identical in dollars.
Staying at 13 makes it an extra $176,923 per school.
Going back to 14 makes it same as now except for the first two years when it goes up roughly $77k for the entry fee.
Going to 16 takes it down by $287,500 per year except for the first two years when it drops only $56,730
Let's take Marshall about median in CUSA revenue. What is $287,500 to Marshall? 1% of operating revenue.
We aren't talking any real money here. Replace one conference flight with a bus trip in football, men's and women's basketball, women's soccer, volleyball, baseball, and softball and your net travel savings will be around $350,000, more if you are also able to save on one meal per team.

Forego $287,500 in revenue to cut overhead by $350,000? No one does stupid crap like that because the fans don't care about what it does to the budget they want to tout how much the conference spit out to their school.

It is no accident JMU and MTSU AD's have name-dropped JMU and Liberty, they are looking at cutting overhead and using the money for things that impact competive ability.

Now what we don't know is what CUSA revenue will look like from July 1, 2016 forward because CUSA hasn't announced a TV deal nor has any talk leaked (even though there seems to be a UAB related leak weekly). Find out what the TV deal looks like and you'll know what CUSA is going to do next.

My money remains on taking USA, slightly better travel for much of the west, slightly worse for much of the east, but it is a crossover game so not as big of an impact on east. JMU and Liberty, non-starters unless CUSA goes to 16.

Thanks for the analysis however the foreone payment of ~$250K may only be 1% of the entire operating athletic budget, it represents more than 10% of the Conference pay-out.

And as the cost of supporting these athletes goes up, that extra $250k is going to come in handy.

But if you reduce expenses $350,00 there is a net gain in spendable funds of nearly $100,000 that's easy balance sheet analysis.

If I move to another city and my annual income falls $10k but my spending on housing, utilities and food drops $20k I'm better off because I have $10k MORE to spend as I choose.

(04-29-2015 01:10 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 01:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  While it's not a done deal until June, it would be unnecessarily cruel to boot a charter member without giving them a year courtesy to figure out if the decision can be reversed.

I don't think the decision is going to be reversed. This was a decision 3 years in the making.
I think UAB will find a home before June and will announce by end of June their new conference. No sense in staying in CUSA any longer, just get it over with.

It was in the making since like 2004 when the BoTs at UAT wanted to kill all of UAB's sports to end their D1 status.

arkstfan, not every CUSA member has men's soccer, baseball or softball.

UTEP and North Texas don't play baseball. 12 members currently
Old Domininon and Rice don't play softball. 12 members

Over half the conference doesn't sponsor men's soccer. CUSA has 9 teams overall with South Carolina, Kentucky and New Mexico as affiliates.

If UAB leaves and isn't replaced, the scheduling won't be affected as much for these three sports

FCS schools that could be able to move up?

North Dakota State brings football, basketball and baseball
Missouri State expanding their football stadium and brings their basketball.
Northern Iowa is expanding football and brings basketball
James Madison brings football
Delaware football
Liberty
Alabama State Seems they are not happy in the SWAC and the thought that Southern U. could be merged into LSU and Grambling State could be merged into La. Tech could hurt the conference. Nicholls State, SE Louisiana and Nw La. State could be no more. I think NW La. State would be merging with LSU-Shreveport. That is why some schools in the D2 ranks looking to join Southland right now. Tuskegee and Pittsburg State could go into the SWAC from D2.
Jacksonville State
Youngstown State

MAC schools
Northern Illinois
Ohio U.
Toledo
Buffalo
Ball State
Bowling Green

(04-29-2015 03:43 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  We aren't talking any real money here. Replace one conference flight with a bus trip in football, men's and women's basketball, women's soccer, volleyball, baseball, and softball and your net travel savings will be around $350,000, more if you are also able to save on one meal per team.
Thanks for the analysis however the foreone payment of ~$250K may only be 1% of the entire operating athletic budget, it represents more than 10% of the Conference pay-out.
And as the cost of supporting these athletes goes up, that extra $250k is going to come in handy.

But if you reduce expenses $350,00 there is a net gain in spendable funds of nearly $100,000 that's easy balance sheet analysis.
If I move to another city and my annual income falls $10k but my spending on housing, utilities and food drops $20k I'm better off because I have $10k MORE to spend as I choose.

I think you and I both know that your $350k saving scheme is a red-herring that has nothing what-so-ever to do with the number of schools in the conference. You are basing that figure on adding a centralized school, which has not been decided on and certianly doesn't affect each school the same (if at all).

Simple math, add a school and you take a 10% haircut for each one you add.

(04-29-2015 03:55 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  arkstfan, not every CUSA member has men's soccer, baseball or softball.

UTEP and North Texas don't play baseball. 12 members currently
Old Domininon and Rice don't play softball. 12 members

Over half the conference doesn't sponsor men's soccer. CUSA has 9 teams overall with South Carolina, Kentucky and New Mexico as affiliates.

If UAB leaves and isn't replaced, the scheduling won't be affected as much for these three sports

If UAB is booted and not replaced baseball will have 11 it isn't fun for scheduling (Sun Belt knows). Softball will be at 11 with the west divison down to five. Men's soccer will be at 8 which actually makes for neater scheduling. Women's soccer will be at 13.

(04-29-2015 04:02 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 03:43 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  We aren't talking any real money here. Replace one conference flight with a bus trip in football, men's and women's basketball, women's soccer, volleyball, baseball, and softball and your net travel savings will be around $350,000, more if you are also able to save on one meal per team.
Thanks for the analysis however the foreone payment of ~$250K may only be 1% of the entire operating athletic budget, it represents more than 10% of the Conference pay-out.
And as the cost of supporting these athletes goes up, that extra $250k is going to come in handy.

But if you reduce expenses $350,00 there is a net gain in spendable funds of nearly $100,000 that's easy balance sheet analysis.
If I move to another city and my annual income falls $10k but my spending on housing, utilities and food drops $20k I'm better off because I have $10k MORE to spend as I choose.

I think you and I both know that your $350k saving scheme is a red-herring that has nothing what-so-ever to do with the number of schools in the conference. You are basing that figure on adding a centralized school, which has not been decided on and certianly doesn't affect each school the same (if at all).

Simple math, add a school and you take a 10% haircut for each one you add.

You cannot add school that is FBS or FBS plausible that do a damn thing for FIU and FAU.

You can add a school that benefits the remainder of CUSA East, and the same goes for CUSA West.

FIU and FAU are the only schools assured a haircut. The remainder can all benefit financially from expansion even to 16 and if those 11 schools can be made happy, FIU and FAU have nothing but persuasion to stop it because two votes won't block.

(04-29-2015 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 03:55 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  arkstfan, not every CUSA member has men's soccer, baseball or softball.

UTEP and North Texas don't play baseball. 12 members currently
Old Domininon and Rice don't play softball. 12 members

Over half the conference doesn't sponsor men's soccer. CUSA has 9 teams overall with South Carolina, Kentucky and New Mexico as affiliates.

If UAB leaves and isn't replaced, the scheduling won't be affected as much for these three sports

If UAB is booted and not replaced baseball will have 11 it isn't fun for scheduling (Sun Belt knows). Softball will be at 11 with the west divison down to five. Men's soccer will be at 8 which actually makes for neater scheduling. Women's soccer will be at 13.

Very unlikely to add any combination of new members that makes all of those sports "even" for the league. Every conference has to deal with having less than 100% of its full members in certain sports -- Pac-12, for example, has 11 baseball teams and 9 women's soccer teams. CUSA won't add or not add schools for this reason. It's possible that football and men's and women's BB scheduling are deemed important enough that "even-ness" for those sports would be one of several factors in the decision, but not for the other sports.

(04-29-2015 04:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  You cannot add school that is FBS or FBS plausible that do a damn thing for FIU and FAU.
You can add a school that benefits the remainder of CUSA East, and the same goes for CUSA West.
FIU and FAU are the only schools assured a haircut. The remainder can all benefit financially from expansion even to 16 and if those 11 schools can be made happy, FIU and FAU have nothing but persuasion to stop it because two votes won't block.

I'm talking about 1 and you're talking about 3? So you're saying we (i.e. 11 of the schools) can make up $600k ($200k for each added school) in forgone Conference revenue by taking the bus? ah, ok.

(04-29-2015 03:11 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 02:40 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  What is a reasonable plan? It sounds like they need to be FBS for 2016. If not, why would CUSA let UAB get any CFP money the years they don't have a football team? Trying to restart the program, you think this money would be needed. Looking at this from what the positives of each situation.

PROS (Removing UAB)
- Bigger slice of CFP pie for CUSA Members
- Bigger slice of NCAA Units for CUSA Members
- Stay football only conference
- Removing a troubled program (What prevents this from happening again)

PROS of keeping UAB (I am really struggling of what would be the business positives to keep UAB other than it would be a nice thing for CUSA to do)
- ???

UAB isn't going to get football money for any season they're in the conference without a football team.

Removing any number of teams will always increase the remaining teams' shares of NCAA tournament money. Are you advocating for CUSA to drop down to 8 members?

The conference has decided it won't have non-football members. UAB will either have to restart football or leave in a year. So again, what is your point?


I think UAB being a charter member of the conference gives them some leeway on your "troubled" point.

I respectfully disagree that a charter member should carry more weight. If anything, UAB was part of purge of non-football schools for CUSA. So in theory, they should be given less consideration since they terminated football. I am still looking for a non emotional or business reasons that would be postive points in retaining UAB. I have yet to see anyone provide one yet. I am not saying there are not any but I not am not thinking of any.

(04-29-2015 04:23 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 04:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  You cannot add school that is FBS or FBS plausible that do a damn thing for FIU and FAU.
You can add a school that benefits the remainder of CUSA East, and the same goes for CUSA West.
FIU and FAU are the only schools assured a haircut. The remainder can all benefit financially from expansion even to 16 and if those 11 schools can be made happy, FIU and FAU have nothing but persuasion to stop it because two votes won't block.

I'm talking about 1 and you're talking about 3? So you're saying we (i.e. 11 of the schools) can make up $600k ($200k for each added school) in forgone Conference revenue by taking the bus? ah, ok.

If CUSA went to 16, divided Olympic sports into 8-team divisions with minimal cross divisional play---you probably can cut most travel budgets by 40%.

(04-29-2015 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 03:55 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  arkstfan, not every CUSA member has men's soccer, baseball or softball.

UTEP and North Texas don't play baseball. 12 members currently
Old Domininon and Rice don't play softball. 12 members

Over half the conference doesn't sponsor men's soccer. CUSA has 9 teams overall with South Carolina, Kentucky and New Mexico as affiliates.

If UAB leaves and isn't replaced, the scheduling won't be affected as much for these three sports

If UAB is booted and not replaced baseball will have 11 it isn't fun for scheduling (Sun Belt knows). Softball will be at 11 with the west divison down to five. Men's soccer will be at 8 which actually makes for neater scheduling. Women's soccer will be at 13.

Baseball plays 30 games in-conference and currently teams miss an opponent. (FAU skipped Louisiana Tech this year). With 11 teams they can all play each other.

Softball plays 24 games in-conference and teams play eight opponents (FAU skipped North Texas, Southern Miss and UAB). I don't see why softball should have West/East divisions if baseball does not.

Men's soccer can go to divisions with 8 members. (the Big West did this when Sac State joined as an affiliate). A north/south split could go something like this:

North - Marshall, Old Dominion, Kentucky, Charlotte
South - New Mexico, FAU, FIU, South Carolina.

I got nothing for women's soccer. 10 conference games isn't going to change as long as there's more than 11 members, which would be the case here.

(04-29-2015 04:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If CUSA went to 16, divided Olympic sports into 8-team divisions with minimal cross divisional play---you probably can cut most travel budgets by 40%.

Then you'd have a conference in name only and it would have a terrible rift down the middle, and you would rarely see the other 1/2 of the conference, even for football. Every arguement here makes expansion sound less attractive and consolidation more so.

(04-29-2015 04:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 04:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 03:55 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  arkstfan, not every CUSA member has men's soccer, baseball or softball.

UTEP and North Texas don't play baseball. 12 members currently
Old Domininon and Rice don't play softball. 12 members

Over half the conference doesn't sponsor men's soccer. CUSA has 9 teams overall with South Carolina, Kentucky and New Mexico as affiliates.

If UAB leaves and isn't replaced, the scheduling won't be affected as much for these three sports

If UAB is booted and not replaced baseball will have 11 it isn't fun for scheduling (Sun Belt knows). Softball will be at 11 with the west divison down to five. Men's soccer will be at 8 which actually makes for neater scheduling. Women's soccer will be at 13.

Very unlikely to add any combination of new members that makes all of those sports "even" for the league. Every conference has to deal with having less than 100% of its full members in certain sports -- Pac-12, for example, has 11 baseball teams and 9 women's soccer teams. CUSA won't add or not add schools for this reason. It's possible that football and men's and women's BB scheduling are deemed important enough that "even-ness" for those sports would be one of several factors in the decision, but not for the other sports.

Doesn't mean you can't plug in affiliates. The Pac-12 has SDSU as a men's soccer affiliate, Boise and Cal State Bakersfield for wrestling, UCSB and Cal Poly were there last year for swimming & diving, etc. So too, could CUSA find affiliates for other sports if needed.

Consolidation would make sense, if you could get someone to leave. Short of that, going back to 14 is what will happen. 13 just isn't an option. Especially with the travel partner situation for sports. Staying at 13 totally screws that up.

(04-29-2015 04:23 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 04:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  You cannot add school that is FBS or FBS plausible that do a damn thing for FIU and FAU.
You can add a school that benefits the remainder of CUSA East, and the same goes for CUSA West.
FIU and FAU are the only schools assured a haircut. The remainder can all benefit financially from expansion even to 16 and if those 11 schools can be made happy, FIU and FAU have nothing but persuasion to stop it because two votes won't block.

I'm talking about 1 and you're talking about 3? So you're saying we (i.e. 11 of the schools) can make up $600k ($200k for each added school) in forgone Conference revenue by taking the bus? ah, ok.

First your math is off. Article says UAB expects distribution of $2.2 to $2.4 million. Split the baby, that's $2.3 million. Multiply that by 14 that is $32.2 million in distributable income. Divide that by 16 it is $2,012,500 subtract that from $2.3 million the difference is $287,500 per school change from today. Yes, there are 11 schools in CUSA who can have travel savings well in excess of that going to 16.

If you are looking at 13 vs. 14 the difference is $176,923 that's nothing in an athletic budget and worth paying to avoid having 13 in football and basketball.

Only way CUSA will stay at 13 is if the East schools are adamant about a JMU/Liberty and won't concede to western expansion.

I've said before and will repeat. I think CUSA adds South Alabama and calls it a day.