This is an area of despair. These problems are not going away. We used to think that through hard work you can achieve a greater life for you and your kids. The problem as I see it is poverty. It is the far too rare the person who escapes it's clutches. Success is far more determined by the social class you were born into. The generations before could move up the social ladder with demands of higher wages. Unions lifted generations of people. Market forces used to balance supply and demand. Think of the Henry Ford model.

Prices used to be tied to the health of the economy. Prices would come down when the majority of people could no longer afford that product. That's no longer the case. Capital vs. Labor has never been more out of balance. This is the first time in our History that this is so. Automation and Globalization are coming home to roost. We keep on increasing our productivity but half of the people are on govt. assistance. How can this be possible? CAPITAL IS KING! We are going to have to reassess what this means for our society going forward. We as a society are becoming more efficient and those without means at the fringes of our society are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

(04-29-2015 10:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We used to think that through hard work you can achieve a greater life for you and your kids.

Those of us who still think this are the ones who are achieving. I grew up in humble circumstances and, at 31 (through hard work and determination), have provided a good life for my family.

Those of you who think that this cannot happen are the reason why there has been the rapid formation of a perpetually poor underclass. If you tell them they cannot escape poverty without the help of Daddy Government, then you are simply setting them up for failure.

(04-29-2015 10:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is an area of despair. These problems are not going away. We used to think that through hard work you can achieve a greater life for you and your kids. The problem as I see it is poverty. It is the far too rare the person who escapes it's clutches. Success is far more determined by the social class you were born into. The generations before could move up the social ladder with demands of higher wages. Unions lifted generations of people. Market forces used to balance supply and demand. Think of the Henry Ford model.

Prices used to be tied to the health of the economy. Prices would come down when the majority of people could no longer afford that product. That's no longer the case. Capital vs. Labor has never been more out of balance. This is the first time in our History that this is so. Automation and Globalization are coming home to roost. We keep on increasing our productivity but half of the people are on govt. assistance. How can this be possible? CAPITAL IS KING! We are going to have to reassess what this means for our society going forward. We as a society are becoming more efficient and those without means at the fringes of our society are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

We are moving towards a world of functional post-scarcity. As such the economy doesn't need as many workers that it used to and the ones that are needed require more than basic skills.

(04-29-2015 10:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is an area of despair. These problems are not going away. We used to think that through hard work you can achieve a greater life for you and your kids. The problem as I see it is poverty. It is the far too rare the person who escapes it's clutches. Success is far more determined by the social class you were born into. The generations before could move up the social ladder with demands of higher wages. Unions lifted generations of people. Market forces used to balance supply and demand. Think of the Henry Ford model.

Prices used to be tied to the health of the economy. Prices would come down when the majority of people could no longer afford that product. That's no longer the case. Capital vs. Labor has never been more out of balance. This is the first time in our History that this is so. Automation and Globalization are coming home to roost. We keep on increasing our productivity but half of the people are on govt. assistance. How can this be possible? CAPITAL IS KING! We are going to have to reassess what this means for our society going forward. We as a society are becoming more efficient and those without means at the fringes of our society are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

So, how much money should we throw at this problem? How much more money should we give these people? How much is enough?

There are COUNTLESS examples of Americans working their way out of poverty and becoming upstanding members of the middle & upper classes.

Democrats are the KINGS of the defeatist attitude. These people are not victims, and they DO have opportunity, just as much as you or I. What we need to do is teach them that they don't have to rely on the government for everything. It's amazing what they could accomplish with a little dignity and self-worth. Democrats strip them of that.

(04-29-2015 10:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is an area of despair. These problems are not going away. We used to think that through hard work you can achieve a greater life for you and your kids. The problem as I see it is poverty. It is the far too rare the person who escapes it's clutches. Success is far more determined by the social class you were born into. The generations before could move up the social ladder with demands of higher wages. Unions lifted generations of people. Market forces used to balance supply and demand. Think of the Henry Ford model.

Prices used to be tied to the health of the economy. Prices would come down when the majority of people could no longer afford that product. That's no longer the case. Capital vs. Labor has never been more out of balance. This is the first time in our History that this is so. Automation and Globalization are coming home to roost. We keep on increasing our productivity but half of the people are on govt. assistance. How can this be possible? CAPITAL IS KING! We are going to have to reassess what this means for our society going forward. We as a society are becoming more efficient and those without means at the fringes of our society are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

FIFY personal sacrifice, education, getting married and staying married, not having babies out of wedlock.

My grandparents didn't finish grade school much less high school but my grandpa worked three jobs to see that his children went to high school and my dad put himself through college as did my aunt. My mom put herself through college.

Our family rising out of the lower class had ZERO to do with unions and more to do with self-sacrifice, perseverance and most of all valuing education.

Additionally, there were no children born out of wedlock and the parents stayed married.

While unions had an impact in building the middle class early in the 20th century, unions are directly responsible for the dwindling middle class of the late 20th century because of their increasing demands for ridiculous wages and benefits driving manufacturing jobs overseas.

Rust Belt been like this since the 80's man and slowly getting worse. What production are you exactly talking about here? Food production, maybe. But steel production and appliance production... oh hell naw. We gotta refind our manufacturing roots, but 21st century manufacturing will depend more on machines than manpower. Pittsburgh found a way to reinvent itself where places like Gary In, and Detroit really hasn't. Just look at your everyday items in your house; then count how many were "Made in the USA" compared to made in some 3rd word country that utilizes sweatshops.

Shifty.

A couple of questions.

1. Were you born to a family that valued education. Was this instilled in you?

2. Did you come from a two parent household?

3. What kind of a school did you go to? Private or Public?

4. Your party is going to have to come around on the FACT that Daddy Govt. is the only recourse or resource for people at the fringes. If not for the govt. who would provide food for these families? Should kids starve because of the family they were born into?


These issues are not going away. There not and it's only going to be exasperated. You are going to see more people on the govt. dole going forward. I don't see how we escape this. I look at Baltimore and I see a community that has no faith in it's govt. , judicial system, or it's future.

(04-29-2015 10:11 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(04-29-2015 10:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We used to think that through hard work you can achieve a greater life for you and your kids.

Those of us who still think this are the ones who are achieving. I grew up in humble circumstances and, at 31 (through hard work and determination), have provided a good life for my family.

Those of you who think that this cannot happen are the reason why there has been the rapid formation of a perpetually poor underclass. If you tell them they cannot escape poverty without the help of Daddy Government, then you are simply setting them up for failure.

Amen! I'm sick of the excuses.

Big Daddy Gov. keeps people in their poverty. Amazing that there are still people who don't get this.

Gotta free yourself from the heavy shackles of dependence to make it.

(04-29-2015 10:21 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shifty.

A couple of questions.

1. Were you born to a family that valued education. Was this instilled in you?

2. Did you come from a two parent household?

3. What kind of a school did you go to? Private or Public?

1) I had a 2.25 GPA in high school. Joined the military. Got out, went to college and graduated Magna Cu*m Laude.

2) Yes

3) Public

BS...........

EXCUSES?????? The fact of the matter is your success was far more determined by where and by whom you were born to. That is the reality. Simple fact.

Life is a game of personal decision making. If you make mostly bad decisions, you're going to have a rough time. If you make some good ones mixed with bad ones, you'll make it. If you make mostly good ones, you'll excel.

As the family unit crumbles, society crumbles.

(04-29-2015 10:21 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shifty.

A couple of questions.

1. Were you born to a family that valued education. Was this instilled in you?

2. Did you come from a two parent household?

3. What kind of a school did you go to? Private or Public?

4. Your party is going to have to come around on the FACT that Daddy Govt. is the only recourse or resource for people at the fringes. If not for the govt. who would provide food for these families? Should kids starve because of the family they were born into?


These issues are not going away. There not and it's only going to be exasperated. You are going to see more people on the govt. dole going forward. I don't see how we escape this. I look at Baltimore and I see a community that has no faith in it's govt. , judicial system, or it's future.

I'll concede the bolded if you and your party acknowledge that if we are destined to have people getting $20-30K from the gov't without any sort of employment penalty, that the cost of such state largesse should be the ability to vote.

I was raised on welfare in the projects. Single mother.

They expect so much yet contribute so little.

(04-29-2015 10:28 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  BS...........

EXCUSES?????? The fact of the matter is your success was far more determined by where and by whom you were born to. That is the reality. Simple fact.

Horse ****. That's all you spew. Absolute horse ****.

If you want to go to school, you go to school. Period. If you do well in school, colleges offer these things called scholarships. There are also grants, and this thing called FAFSA.

All we hear from liberals are excuses as to why the poor in this country are so poor and they don't even consider for a SECOND that it's THEIR big government policies that keep them in poverty!

If money is your definition of success, then I am not realizing a better life than my parents. My dad is a relatively successful real estate lawyer. He was also traveling all over the state and not around much for my childhood. He spend about 6-months to a year in my childhood, maybe around when I was 6 or 7, living with a mistress before my parents finally worked it out. In my adolecense, he developed alcoholism that got worse and worse everyday and struggles with to this day. He hasn't had a drink since December 30 and is currently in his best state he has been in since I was a young child.

I make a decent, middle-class income with a job that probably pays me more than it needs to and a perfect work-life balance and a good, faithful marriage. I am there to teach, guide through homework, discipline, and help to create a moral fabric. I am at every soccer or basketball game enthusiastically cheering for my child and teaching and working on things I saw as room for improvement when we get home. I provide experiences on the weekends, day trips, parks, family fun, and a week-long family vacation every year. I had none of this growing up. We did go on a few, much more expensive vacations every year, but it didn't make up for the deficiencies the rest of the year. Who is more successful? My son, I believe, will have a better financial life than I do, but I would rather he enjoy the other successes if I had to choose. It ain't all about money, it is the lack of family that is the root of the problem. No dad there to help with homework (and enforce the actual doing of it). No weekend experiences... many of which cost nothing. No discipline. Vacations are a luxury, but a long weekend camping trip to a state park cost far less then the newest pair of Air Jordans.

The difference between Republicans and Democrats on this issue is simple.

Republicans don't want there to be a permanent underclass, and are constantly trying to empower people to better themselves through self-reliance.

Democrats NEED a permanent underclass to stay in power, and have no real interest in SOLVING the problem. They just have to appear to be compassionate, and as long as they do that, they won't get judged on results.

(04-29-2015 10:21 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shifty.

A couple of questions.

1. Were you born to a family that valued education. Was this instilled in you? CP: No

2. Did you come from a two parent household? CP: No

3. What kind of a school did you go to? Private or Public? CP: Public

4. Your party is going to have to come around on the FACT that Daddy Govt. is the only recourse or resource for people at the fringes. If not for the govt. who would provide food for these families? Should kids starve because of the family they were born into? CP: What are you talking about? My mom busted her ass working 2-3 jobs to ensure me and my brother were fed.


These issues are not going away. There not and it's only going to be exasperated. You are going to see more people on the govt. dole going forward. I don't see how we escape this. I look at Baltimore and I see a community that has no faith in it's govt. , judicial system, or it's future. CP: who's fault is that? The people of Baltimore been voting for the democrats for a better part of 40 years now. I won't say republicans are the answer, but liberalism is a failure.

I can honestly say that he success I have had in my life is due to my parents. Two parents and only my Dad had to work because he was able to provide for my family. Blue Collar worker that put me and my brother through college. Those days are gone. Those jobs are gone.

I can't help looking at those people last night on my television and getting this total sense of despair. What opportunities exist in these urban communities? Illicit trade? I don't see manufacturing ever coming back in these areas. We can produce more now without labor. Our society has become increasingly scalpel like efficient. We have ever increasing areas in our country that are highly inefficient. Government is THE ONLY answer here folks!!! The GOP has no answer for these folks. NONE!