I need to update one of my stats.. 70% of youths in state run facilities are from fatherless homes.....not the incarcerated. 85% of incarcerated youths nationally are from fatherless homes according to the Justice Dept.

Does anyone see a trend?


BTW, the studies I have seen of all incarcerated felons nationally range from mid 70 percent on up to high 80 percentage as coming from fatherless homes.

Jail is not the problem. The problem is the disintigration of families...and that is way more prevalent in the African American community.

Having 2 parents who live together is the single biggest indicator of the chances of ending up in the hoosegow. Control for income, race, it doesn't matter. That is the biggie.

And when you see that 3 years ago 67% of ALL African American children in the entire country live in a single parent household (just think about that), and that percentage continues to climb, you get a self fullfilling prophecy. It's not the justice system that is broken. The justice system is just dealing with the output of the awful equation that nobody wants to deal with.

So you want to continue to waste your tax dollars locking up nonviolent drug offenders for lengthy sentences?

(05-01-2015 02:08 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The justice system is just dealing with the output of the awful equation that nobody wants to deal with.

This is factually wrong and why I think you argument is so flimsy. Our violent and property crime rates are plummeting in this country, yet our prison populations are skyrocketing. Drug usage rates remain largely stagnant. They fluctuate some, but a trend line would be basically flat over the last 40 years.

We aren't getting worse as a country in terms of crime. We are just locking more people up, almost half of which are black. Which then leads to more fatherless homes, and then people like you get to chastise the black community instead of seeing the larger problem.

Define non-violent drug offender. Is trafficing a couple of grams of heroin near a school ok? Is manufacturing meth ok? No violence in either offense. You get my point, though.

(05-01-2015 02:08 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Having 2 parents who live together is the single biggest indicator of the chances of ending up in the hoosegow. Control for income, race, it doesn't matter. That is the biggie.

And when you see that 3 years ago 67% of ALL African American children in the entire country live in a single parent household (just think about that), and that percentage continues to climb, you get a self fullfilling prophecy. It's not the justice system that is broken. The justice system is just dealing with the output of the awful equation that nobody wants to deal with.

Rising percentages of broken homes is not just an African American thing. Marriage itself is becoming less of a choice for the lower and middle classes. Marriage is largely determined by socioeconomic status.

The crap I'm seeing from kids in my lily white suburb is jaw dropping, and it's clear the parents who are AWOL.

Good Lord. Facts be damned.

(05-01-2015 02:29 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Define non-violent drug offender. Is trafficing a couple of grams of heroin near a school ok? Is manufacturing meth ok? No violence in either offense. You get my point, though.

Not saying it is ok. The rates of dealing and selling drugs just hasn't gone up or down. We are just locking up an incredible amount of people right now, and generally targeting the black race to do so. Also white people and black people deal drugs at similar rates.

Your argument just kinda stinks. It seeks to put everything at black peoples feet that simply can't be supported by facts.

Supporting a massive carceral state the likes of which have never been seen in this country or any other seems to be in complete opposition to the idea of "small government," yet the issue seems to be completely off-limits to conservatives and all politicians for that matter. Any idea why?

(05-01-2015 01:23 PM)Overrated Wrote:  

(05-01-2015 01:21 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Or another good cause for those looking to champion the oppressed....

72% of African American births in 2012 were born out of wedlock.

In 2012, 67% of all African American children in the nation lived in single parent households.

Children in fatherless households are twice as likely to commit crimes as adolescents.

90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.

85% of children who exhibit behavioral disorders are from fatherless homes.

75% of all adolescent patients in substance abuse centers nationally are from fatherless homes.

71% of high school dropouts are from fatherless homes.

70% of juveniles that are incarcerated are from fatherless homes.

63% of youth suicides are kids in fatherless homes.

But it's the fault of a corrupt judicial system. Got it.

Do you see how this problem could snowball if you throw an inordinate number of black people in jail so that their kids would be raised without parents?

Are you sure the inordinate number of black people in jail isn't just the result of black culture in the first place? I'm somehow guessing, convicted felons aren't always the best parents anyway. That's not mentioning the fact, that all drug crime isn't peaceful. I'm not aware of too many households, that are made more functional by illegal narcotics.

(05-01-2015 02:48 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Are you sure the inordinate number of black people in jail isn't just the result of black culture in the first place? I'm somehow guessing, convicted felons aren't always the best parents anyway. That's not mentioning the fact, that all drug crime isn't peaceful. I'm not aware of too many households, that are made more functional by illegal narcotics.

I'm reasonably confident in that given the progress of black people from 1940 to 1980. Yes. Read about how that progress has been halted.

Narcotics aren't something I would let run wild in this country. They can have devastating effects. We are seeing that in Cincinnati with heroin right now. Our drug war just does nothing to actually solve that problem. It's actually the Obama administration's success cracking down on pill farms that has sparked this heroin epidemic in some parts of this country. But a lot of men are in jail for marijuana. And most families would be way better off if there father had never been in jail and used marijuana. And I would probably say that about most drugs.

(05-01-2015 02:34 PM)Overrated Wrote:  

(05-01-2015 02:29 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Define non-violent drug offender. Is trafficing a couple of grams of heroin near a school ok? Is manufacturing meth ok? No violence in either offense. You get my point, though.

Not saying it is ok. The rates of dealing and selling drugs just hasn't gone up or down. We are just locking up an incredible amount of people right now, and generally targeting the black race to do so. Also white people and black people deal drugs at similar rates.

Your argument just kinda stinks. It seeks to put everything at black peoples feet that simply can't be supported by facts.

It's not my argument. Tap into the Justic Department's public reports and the mountains of independent studies.

And it applies to whites as well. The percentage of single parent kids in whites was 22% in 2012. As that percentage goes up, watch what happens to felon stats. BTW, white felons behind bars are also overwhelmingly products of fatherless households.

(05-01-2015 02:30 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Good Lord. Facts be damned.

Well, there's a post that adds nothing and goes nowhere fast.

(05-01-2015 03:08 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(05-01-2015 02:34 PM)Overrated Wrote:  

(05-01-2015 02:29 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Define non-violent drug offender. Is trafficing a couple of grams of heroin near a school ok? Is manufacturing meth ok? No violence in either offense. You get my point, though.

Not saying it is ok. The rates of dealing and selling drugs just hasn't gone up or down. We are just locking up an incredible amount of people right now, and generally targeting the black race to do so. Also white people and black people deal drugs at similar rates.

Your argument just kinda stinks. It seeks to put everything at black peoples feet that simply can't be supported by facts.

It's not my argument. Tap into the Justic Department's public reports and the mountains of independent studies.

And it applies to whites as well. The percentage of single parent kids in whites was 22% in 2012. As that percentage goes up, watch what happens to felon stats. BTW, white felons behind bars are also overwhelmingly products of fatherless households.

This site has Asians pegged at 17%, African American at 64%, Hispanic at 40%, and Whites at 29%. They cite the US Census Bureau.

http://www.actrochester.org/children-you...ata-tables

The Anne E Casey Foundation pegs Whites as 25%, African-American at 67%, American Indian at 52%, Asian at 16%, Hispanic at 42%, and Two or More Races at 43%:

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tab...85/432,431

It seems that unless you're Asian, you have a fairly high probability of being raised by one parent.

I'm raising a kid who has been "stabbed in the gut" more than once by his white biological parents, so I guess I'm a bit biased about classifying such things by race.

(05-01-2015 01:22 PM)Overrated Wrote:  I don't really know where I stand on abortion. I see both sides. Probably lean toward more of a pro life stance, but what I do take a really strong stance on is that we should do our best to make sure everyone is on birth control, even if that means totally paying for the poor to get it. This probably doesn't sit well with most conservatives, but I think it is an incredibly fiscally conservative position.

Poor people tend to have more children and they have them at younger ages, so there generations turn over faster. And unless you don't think kids (who have no choice on their parent) should be guaranteed things like healthcare and an education, they tend to be very expensive.

Colorado over the last 5 years has had a law like like this that was initially privately funded. That private funding is coming up and apparently there is some fear that conservatives in the state will try to get rid of the law. But the results have been staggeringly positive. The teen pregnancy rate is down something like 40% and the rate of abortions is about 35% lower. I believe it has saved the state $5 for every dollar spent.

I would be very supportive of that type of law spreading around the country.

What you are overlooking is that many times kids that are having kids is not an unplanned event. That is their money source. More kids, more money as long as the father is not in their lives. This is happening through generation after generation. And sadly it is the kids that suffer. They are just there for the check.

(05-01-2015 04:30 PM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  What you are overlooking is that many times kids that are having kids is not an unplanned event. That is their money source. More kids, more money as long as the father is not in their lives. This is happening through generation after generation. And sadly it is the kids that suffer. They are just there for the check.

I would be interested in reading about how prevalent that "strategy" is, especially with those that don't have any kids yet. The idea of young people that aren't tied down with children yet choosing to lose that freedom and have a kid just for sake of some government money seems foreign to me. But I could have no clue what I'm talking about.

I do think the drastic reduction in teen pregnancy in Colorado suggests that there are a lot of young, poor people that have no desire to get pregnant too quickly. Maybe I'm overstating it.

There you go trying to add rational thinking to the conversation. People who follow this path see one thing. Not a child. Just a check.

And you really think that they view a child as a burden? Listen to the news about how many times a "mother" leaves her kids at home alone while she goes out clubbing. Can't worry about being tied down by kids...I mean a check.

(05-01-2015 02:57 PM)Overrated Wrote:  

(05-01-2015 02:48 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  Are you sure the inordinate number of black people in jail isn't just the result of black culture in the first place? I'm somehow guessing, convicted felons aren't always the best parents anyway. That's not mentioning the fact, that all drug crime isn't peaceful. I'm not aware of too many households, that are made more functional by illegal narcotics.

I'm reasonably confident in that given the progress of black people from 1940 to 1980. Yes. Read about how that progress has been halted.

Narcotics aren't something I would let run wild in this country. They can have devastating effects. We are seeing that in Cincinnati with heroin right now. Our drug war just does nothing to actually solve that problem. It's actually the Obama administration's success cracking down on pill farms that has sparked this heroin epidemic in some parts of this country. But a lot of men are in jail for marijuana. And most families would be way better off if there father had never been in jail and used marijuana. And I would probably say that about most drugs.

I don't have the time or the inclination to fact check everything you say, but I know without a doubt that you don't know what you are talking about when you say

" It's actually the Obama administration's success cracking down on pill farms that has sparked this heroin epidemic in some parts of this country."

The main emphasis began in Ohio and Florida at the STATE level. Others states, and the federal government, followed suit to varying degrees.

http://prageruniversity.com/Political-Sc...UQVwHD3aK1

AMEN!

Very interesting videos with a lot to digest and think about. Just spent an hour and a half watching them. Thanks for sharing Recluse1.