What a shame. Only time till it happens in Chicago. Allegedly gangs going to target police. Parents must be proud

(04-28-2015 06:14 AM)klake87 Wrote:  What a shame. Only time till it happens in Chicago. Allegedly gangs going to target police. Parents must be proud

Hey! Look at me! I got toilet paper.

Someone should contact the rioters' parents. You might see more of this:...

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/04/2...ore-riots/

Another Democratic controled city with race riots.

I'm starting to find myself supportive of these riots.

(04-28-2015 01:23 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  I'm starting to find myself supportive of these riots.

No surprise there.

Certainly there is nothing to be gained by the reaction seen in Baltimore, Ferguson, etc. However it might serve us all well to try and understand why these outbursts occur.

I remember a good friend telling be 25 years ago how tense and tightly wound the black community was(he was referring to Chicago) His fear was that and one incident could spark riots like there were in the 60's...This was only a couple of years before Rodney King...sadly it seems not much has changed since then.

People can be treated badly for so long before they react. My lord how many incidents have there been just in the last few months?

(04-28-2015 03:39 PM)BobL Wrote:  Certainly there is nothing to be gained by the reaction seen in Baltimore, Ferguson, etc. However it might serve us all well to try and understand why these outbursts occur.

I remember a good friend telling be 25 years ago how tense and tightly wound the black community was(he was referring to Chicago) His fear was that and one incident could spark riots like there were in the 60's...This was only a couple of years before Rodney King...sadly it seems not much has changed since then.

People can be treated badly for so long before they react. My lord how many incidents have there been just in the last few months?

No matter what, it's no reason to destroy property, loot businesses, and hurt people.

(04-28-2015 04:06 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 03:39 PM)BobL Wrote:  Certainly there is nothing to be gained by the reaction seen in Baltimore, Ferguson, etc. However it might serve us all well to try and understand why these outbursts occur.

I remember a good friend telling be 25 years ago how tense and tightly wound the black community was(he was referring to Chicago) His fear was that and one incident could spark riots like there were in the 60's...This was only a couple of years before Rodney King...sadly it seems not much has changed since then.

People can be treated badly for so long before they react. My lord how many incidents have there been just in the last few months?

No matter what, it's no reason to destroy property, loot businesses, and hurt people.

I feel for the tea shops that had their livelihood dumped into Boston Harbor as well.

(04-28-2015 10:18 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  Another Democratic controled city with race riots.

What would an enlightened Republican mayor do?

This whole thing started because a suspect was given a "rough ride" in a paddy wagon and it looks like it killed him. You've recently seen cops shoot an unarmed black guy in the back while he was running away and kill him, and a deputy "mistakenly" pulled out his gun instead of his taser and killed another. This is nothing new; the only thing new is that it's starting to be filmed. And it's going to happen more and more with the body cameras to be introduced in many departments. Cops are going to need to adjust moving forward because they can't get away with this **** anymore. No more extracurricular street justice.

If the police gave him a "rough ride" charge all involved with manslaughter. That is unacceptable. Being a policeman is scary. More peoplr should go on ride alongs and see what they go thru but desctroying property, looting and setting fires is unnacceptable.

(04-28-2015 05:10 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 10:18 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  Another Democratic controled city with race riots.

What would an enlightened Republican mayor do?

An enlighten mayor would not "give space to destroy" to protestors. That is what the Democratic mayor stated after the violence Saturday. I wanted to give them space. WOW....

The people of Baltimore have been voting democrat for DECADES. It is a completely democratic controlled town. This is how the people of Baltimore and their elected officials operate. We even have a dem on this board who is supportive of these riots. That dem on this board supports violent criminal activity against innocent people.

(04-28-2015 06:23 PM)klake87 Wrote:  If the police gave him a "rough ride" charge all involved with manslaughter. That is unacceptable. Being a policeman is scary. More peoplr should go on ride alongs and see what they go thru but desctroying property, looting and setting fires is unnacceptable.

You miss the larger point...this is not an isolated incident.

At this point we can say there is a systematic problem in law enforcement. To simply say "charge them with manslaughter, being a cop is scary" does nothing to address the underlying issue.

Trying to get a jury to convict a cop for manslaughter, especially for a suspected criminal (read: unsympathetic victim), is always a big uphill battle, so much so that local prosecutors typically won't even try it because it's a waste of resources. You need video evidence like in the case of the cop shooting that guy in the back two weeks ago.

And yes it's systemic. The Baltimore Sun reported the city has paid about $5.7 million since 2011 over lawsuits claiming that police officers brazenly beat up alleged suspects.

http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/police-settlements/

The Baltimore mayor meant to say that they gave the protesters space to demonstrate and exercise their free speech rights. 90+% of the demonstrators did so peacefully. Unfortunately the media chooses to focus squarely on the few bad apples and the message is lost.

(04-29-2015 08:21 AM)Max Power Wrote:  Trying to get a jury to convict a cop for manslaughter, especially for a suspected criminal (read: unsympathetic victim), is always a big uphill battle, so much so that local prosecutors typically won't even try it because it's a waste of resources. You need video evidence like in the case of the cop shooting that guy in the back two weeks ago.

And yes it's systemic. The Baltimore Sun reported the city has paid about $5.7 million since 2011 over lawsuits claiming that police officers brazenly beat up alleged suspects.

http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/police-settlements/

The Baltimore mayor meant to say that they gave the protesters space to demonstrate and exercise their free speech rights. 90+% of the demonstrators did so peacefully. Unfortunately the media chooses to focus squarely on the few bad apples and the message is lost.

Very serious question. Define systemic, in terms of a measurable. I agree that $5.7 mil seems to indicate there is a problem. However, given the size of the population of the city, given that number is spread over four years, etc. what does that number really mean? To each individual wronged, one is too many. I understand, I agree. However, what is "systemic?" Look at the wreckage left by Burge in Chicago. Tens of millions in damages. Are damages a reasonable way to measure systemic? I honestly don't know.

A waste of resources is a lousy excuse for a prosecutor to not pursue these cases. Lousy.

Baltimore hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1963. Three of the last four mayors have been African-American. The fourth was O'Malley, who is currently a rock star for the Democratic party. At what point do those policies, and that party, at least on the Baltimore level "own" this system, this police department?

http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/police-settlements/

Quote:Over the past four years, more than 100 people have won court judgments or settlements related to allegations of brutality and civil rights violations. Victims include a 15-year-old boy riding a dirt bike, a 26-year-old pregnant accountant who had witnessed a beating, a 50-year-old woman selling church raffle tickets, a 65-year-old church deacon rolling a cigarette and an 87-year-old grandmother aiding her wounded grandson.

Those cases detail a frightful human toll. Officers have battered dozens of residents who suffered broken bones — jaws, noses, arms, legs, ankles — head trauma, organ failure, and even death, coming during questionable arrests. Some residents were beaten while handcuffed; others were thrown to the pavement.

I think settlements paid to over 100 people over 4 years in one city, at an average of $57k, is systemic.

You might think it's a lousy excuse but prosecutors operate on fixed budgets and they can't spend their time and money on risky cases which they could have spent on more solid cases just to make a point. That's just the unfortunate reality.

Could the police have decided not to give them "space" and formed a perimeter around the demonstrators? Well we saw what happened in Ferguson when the cops rolled out the tanks and riot gear from the get go. That was probably uglier than this.

(04-28-2015 03:39 PM)BobL Wrote:  My lord how many incidents have there been just in the last few months?

and how many police/civilian contacts have happened in that same time period that were not "incidents". Almost all of them.

Max Power Wrote:http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/police-settlements/

Quote:Over the past four years, more than 100 people have won court judgments or settlements related to allegations of brutality and civil rights violations. Victims include a 15-year-old boy riding a dirt bike, a 26-year-old pregnant accountant who had witnessed a beating, a 50-year-old woman selling church raffle tickets, a 65-year-old church deacon rolling a cigarette and an 87-year-old grandmother aiding her wounded grandson.

Those cases detail a frightful human toll. Officers have battered dozens of residents who suffered broken bones — jaws, noses, arms, legs, ankles — head trauma, organ failure, and even death, coming during questionable arrests. Some residents were beaten while handcuffed; others were thrown to the pavement.

I think settlements paid to over 100 people over 4 years in one city, at an average of $57k, is systemic.

With all due respect, I think you are being arbitrary. To be fair, it should be compared to other cities and see how it rates. Also, a settlement isn't an admission of culpability, either fortunately or unfortunately. We can't really say all those settlements had merit in this discussion, or if some were just payments to go away because it was cheaper.

Again, I'm not defending their actions, if wrong. I'm just saying that citing the settlement amount is a bad measurement.

Max Power Wrote:You might think it's a lousy excuse but prosecutors operate on fixed budgets and they can't spend their time and money on risky cases which they could have spent on more solid cases just to make a point. That's just the unfortunate reality.

They have an obligation to be the check and balance on the police force. I'd be comfortable assuming more cases weren't pursued out of "professional courtesy" than anything else.

Max Power Wrote:Could the police have decided not to give them "space" and formed a perimeter around the demonstrators? Well we saw what happened in Ferguson when the cops rolled out the tanks and riot gear from the get go. That was probably uglier than this.

Not a fair comparison. That force was handled poorly. The choice isn't poorly used force or no force. Baltimore should have been more forceful to protect their citizens and assets from criminals.

Again, if this is a systemic problem, shouldn't those who run the system be culpable? In Baltimore, the "system" has been run for many years by Democrats. Wouldn't that indicate their ideals/goals are broken?

A spayed and neutered thread on the Baltimore riots? *click*